State Budget 2001 -- 7 June 2001

>> Gary: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW," NEW YORK CONTINUES ITS RECENT TRADITION OF NOT ADOPTING A STATE BUDGET ON TIME. WE'LL TALK WITH LEGISLATORS ABOUT THE IMPACT THE LATE BUDGET WILL HAVE ON OUR COMMUNITY, INCLUDING ONE GROUP IT MAY HURT THE MOST, SCHOOLS. ALSO LAST YEAR WE BROUGHT YOU THE STORY OF A LITTLE BOY IN NEED OF A NEW HEART. A LOT HAS HAPPENED IN A YEAR. WE'LL HAVE THAT STORY. BUT FIRST THE IMPACT OF NEW YORK'S LATE BUDGET IS ALL COMING UP NEXT ON "NEED TO KNOW."

>> WE'RE ALL BEING HELD HOSTAGE AT THIS POINT TO THIS BUDGET PROCESS.

>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH NEWS PROGRAM. "NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS, EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.

>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gary: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M GARY WALKER. POLITICAL FORCES IN ALBANY HAVE NEW YORK ONCE AGAIN WORKING WITHOUT A BUDGET. THE STATE LEGISLATOR PASSED A 6-MILLION-DOLLAR OR 7-MILLION-DOLLAR EMERGENCY SPENDING BILL ON MAY 21st TO KEEP THE STATE RUNNING FOR ANOTHER MONTH. IT WAS A THIRD EMERGENCY SPENDING BILL OF THE 2001/2002 BUDGET YEAR. INSIDERS SAY THERE'S A POLITICAL SHOWDOWN BREWING BETWEEN GOVERNOR PATAKI AND THE DEMOCRATS IN THE ASSEMBLY. THE GOVERNOR ARGUES THE STATE SHOULD SAVE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE TO PREPARE FOR POSSIBLE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN. THE DEMOCRAT-CONTROLLED ASSEMBLY SAYS THE GOVERNOR IS USING THE WEAKENED ECONOMY AS AN EXCUSE TO STASH MONEY AND RESERVES FOR PROGRAMS HE CAN SPEND ON WHEN HE'S UP FOR RE-ELECTION NEXT YEAR. HERE'S A THUMBNAIL LOOK. THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO SPEND $83.6 BILLION NEXT YEAR. THE DEMOCRATIC ASSEMBLY WANTS THAT AND $2.2 BILLION MORE, WHILE THE REPUBLICAN SENATE WANTS TO SPEND ABOUT $1.2 BILLION MORE THAN THE GOVERNOR. GOVERNOR PATAKI RECENTLY WARNED WE MAY NOT SEE A BUDGET APPROVED THIS YEAR. YET VOTERS WENT TO THE POLLS LAST MONTH TO VOTE UNDER LOCAL SCHOOL BUDGETS. DISTRICTS WERE FORCED TO PLAN FOR CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS, PROGRAMS AND OTHER HIRES WITHOUT KNOWING HOW MUCH MONEY IT WILL HAVE TO SPEND. SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS SAY THE LATE STATE BUDGET LEAVES MANY SCHOOL PROJECTS UP IN THE AIR. "NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS HAS THE STORY.

>> WE'RE REALLY IN NEW TERRITORY HERE LEGALLY. THERE ISN'T PRECEDENT FOR BEING AS LATE AS IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE GETTING TO BE. >> Matt: THOSE WORDS ECHOED THROUGHOUT MANY NEW YORK SCHOOL DISTRICTS AS THEY TRIED THEIR BEST TO FORMULATE FISCAL PLANS FOR THE UPCOMING SCHOOL YEAR WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF KNOWING HOW MUCH STATE FUNDING THEY'LL BE RECEIVING.

>> IN NORMAL YEARS, WHEN THE BUDGET IS LATE, DISTRICTS CAN KIND OF GUESS WHAT THE LIKELY STATE AID IS GOING TO BE. BUT THIS YEAR, BECAUSE THERE ARE SUCH WIDELY DIFFERING PHILOSOPHIES IN HOW THE BUDGET PROPOSALS WERE PUT TOGETHER AND A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT THE DIFFERENT ENTITIES IN ALBANY ARE PROPOSING, IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR DISTRICTS TO MAKE AN INFORMED GUESS ABOUT WHAT THEY WOULD ULTIMATELY BE RECEIVING.

>> Matt: JODY SIEGLE IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MONROE COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD ASSOCIATION. SHE SAYS 15 TO 60% OF SCHOOL FUNDING COMES FROM THE STATE, MEANING A LATE STATE BUDGET HAS SCHOOL DISTRICTS TAKING A SHOT IN THE DARK WHEN PLANNING THEIR FISCAL YEAR.

>> IF THE BUDGET WAS IN PLACE ALREADY THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO PLAN THEIR SUMMER COURSES FOR TEACHERS TO DEVELOP CURRICULUM AND TO TRAIN TEACHERS FOR THE PROGRAMS IN THE FALL. THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO LET PARENTS KNOW THAT THERE WOULD BE A PRE-KINDERGARTEN PROGRAM, AN INITIATIVE THAT THE STATE DEVELOPED A FEW YEARS AGO, AND LET PARENTS PLAN THAT THAT'S WHERE THEIR CHILDREN WOULD BE IN THE FALL. THEY'D BE ABLE TO HIRE THE STAFF FOR THOSE PROGRAMS. THEY'D ALSO BE ABLE TO START THEIR CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS, BUT BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT STATE AID WOULD FLOW TO DISTRICTS TO SUPPORT CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS THE WAY IT WOULD IN THE PAST, QUESTIONS THAT WERE RAISED DURING THIS BUDGET PROCESS, DISTRICTS ARE HAVING A HARD TIME DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT TO BEGIN PROJECTS THAT THEIR COMMUNITIES APPROVED LAST YEAR FOR CONSTRUCTION THIS YEAR.

>> Matt: NEW YORK STATE HASN'T PASSED A BUDGET ON TIME IN 16 YEARS, FORCING SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO ESTIMATE THE AMOUNT OF STATE FUNDING THEY EXPECT TO RECEIVE FOR CAPITAL PROJECTS. DISTRICTS MUST MAKE A CHOICE BETWEEN PROCEEDING AT THEIR OWN RISK AND HOLDING BACK ON NEEDED SERVICES. EAST ROCHESTER SUPERINTENDENT HOWARD MAFFUCCI HAD A 5.5-MILLION-DOLLAR CAPITAL PROJECT UP FOR VOTE THIS SPRING.

>> IN ANALYZING THE PAST BUDGET SITUATIONS WITH LATE BUDGETS, AND THE BUILDING AID BEING A SMALL PART OF THAT, WE DECIDED THAT IT WAS OBVIOUS TO US THAT WE WOULD GET OUR AID AT SOME POINT. WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE BID PROCESS, ATMOSPHERE AND INTEREST RATES, AND THE TIME WAS REALLY RIGHT FOR US TO MOVE FORWARD. AS I SAID, THERE WILL BE A SOLUTION AT SOME POINT AND WE BELIEVE WE'LL GET OUR MONEY.

>> Matt: THE SCHOOL BROKE GROUND ON MAY 1st AND, IN SEPTEMBER, THE STUDENTS WILL HAVE A NEW ATHLETIC FIELD, PRE-K SCHOOL, AND A NEWLY RENOVATED AUDITORIUM. MAFFUCCI WENT AHEAD WITH THESE PLANS BASED ON THE STATE'S RECENT TRACK RECORD FOR SCHOOL AID.

>> WHAT WE DO IS WE USE PAST PRACTICE TO PICK A NUMBER THAT WE BELIEVE WILL BE AS CLOSE TO THE ACTUAL NUMBER AS WE CAN POSSIBLY GET, AND BECAUSE WE'RE USED TO THIS, WE GENERALLY ARE PRETTY GOOD AT IT. THE UNCERTAINTY IS SUPPOSE, FOR ONE YEAR, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN LIKE IT USUALLY HAPPENS, AND THAT'S A SCARY THOUGHT; AND IN FACT SEVERAL TIMES DURING THE 16 YEARS WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD TO HAVE THE VOTE BEFORE THE STATE BUDGET WAS PASSED. SO, IN THEORY, WE'RE USED TO THIS, AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM. THE CITIZENS OF NEW YORK REALLY HAVEN'T RISEN UP AND SAID "NO MORE OF THIS. AGREE ON A BUDGET AND BE DONE WITH IT."

>> Matt: THIS YEAR'S STATE BUDGET WILL ALSO IMPACT A NEW LAW GOING INTO EFFECT. AS OF JULY 1st, ALL NEW TEACHERS HIRED IN NEW YORK STATE MUST BE FINGERPRINTED AND A BACKGROUND CHECK PROVIDED TO EACH DISTRICT BEFORE THEY CAN BE HIRED.

>> THE UPCOMING STATE BUDGET INCLUDED FUNDS TO HELP THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT FUND THAT. IT'S GOING TO BE A HUGE EFFORT. IT'S ANTICIPATED THAT, IN THE FIRST YEAR, THEY'RE GOING TO NEED TO RUN ABOUT 70,000 FINGERPRINT CHECKS THROUGH THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. BUT WITHOUT A BUDGET, THE STATE EDUCATION DEPARTMENT DOESN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO SET THAT UP. IT'S GOING TO CREATE A HUGE BOTTLENECK, POSSIBLY AN IMPOSSIBLE BOTTLENECK FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVING THE AUTHORIZATION TO HIRE EMPLOYEES THROUGH THE SUMMER FOR SUMMER SCHOOLS AND IN THE FALL WHEN SCHOOL STARTS.

>> Matt: SOME PRE-K PROGRAMS ARE ALSO PENDING. SIEGLE REPORTS THE PRESCHOOL DISTRICT IS COUNTING ON OVER $2 MILLION WORTH OF STATE AID FOR THESE PROGRAMS.

>> BASICALLY THEY'RE HELPLESS. I KNOW SEVERAL THAT ARE ON PINS AND NEEDLES AT THE MOMENT WHILE THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE DECISIONS.

>> Gary: ONE ADDED IMPACT ON SCHOOLS IS THE ANNUAL SCHOOL TAX LEVY. WHEN DISTRICTS PREPARE FOR THEIR BUDGETS WITHOUT KNOWING THE AMOUNT OF STATE AID THEY'LL RECEIVE, THEY HAVE TO SET THE PROPERTY TAX LEVY IN THE DARK. TOO HIGH AND YOU OVERTAX. TOO LOW AND YOU HAVE TO BORROW DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR. JOINING ME NOW IN STUDIO TO DISCUSS THE YEAR'S LATE BUDGET IS REPUBLICAN STATE SENATOR JIM ALESI OF THE 55th DISTRICT AND DEMOCRATIC ASSEMBLYMAN JOSEPH ROBACH OF THE 134th DISTRICT. GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US. WE'LL TALK SCHOOL AID IN A MINUTE. I HAVE MY OPENING QUESTION IS THIS: GOVERNOR'S TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLY NO BUDGET THIS YEAR. WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON BACK EAST?

>> THAT'S A LIVE POSSIBILITY I THINK AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY NO MOVEMENT AND NO MEETINGS THAT ANYBODY KNOWS ABOUT BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY. THERE IS ALWAYS DISCOURSE BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER. THEY ARE BOTH PARTNERS AS REPUBLICANS, BUT THE ASSEMBLY I THINK HASN'T NAMED ITS MEMBERS OF THE BUDGET CONFERENCE COMMITTEES YET. THEY HAVEN'T COME UP WITH ANY INITIATIVES TO START THAT PROCESS ROLLING. I WOULD SAY, WITH MY COLLEAGUE JOE ROBACH HERE, I'LL LET HIM SPEAK FOR HIMSELF, BUT I THINK THAT THEY SHARE THE SAME FRUSTRATION THAT WE DO, THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP.

>> Gary: Mr. ROBACH?

>> I WOULD ADD, GARY, THAT IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING TO ME TO HAVE THE EXECUTIVE SPACE PUT OUT HIS BUDGET. HE'S DONE WITH HIS WORK. HE'S UNWILLING TO COMPROMISE OR CHANGE AND HAS NOW EVEN CALLED FOR A THREE-MONTH EXTENDER, WHICH I PERSONALLY WON'T VOTE FOR AND AM ENCOURAGING EVERYONE IN THE PROCESS, IN MY HOUSE OR ANYONE ELSE TO NOT VOTE FOR. WE CANNOT DO BUDGETS BY EXTENDER. IT NOT ONLY HURTS SCHOOL DISTRICTS, CONSTRUCTION, ANY NOT-FOR-PROFIT CAPITAL PROJECTS, ANY PROJECT; ANY ADDITION OR DELETION TO THAT PROJECT CAN'T GET DONE WITHOUT IT. UNFORTUNATELY WE NEED SOME PEOPLE WITH BIG EGOS AND LEADERSHIP AND THE GOVERNOR TO COME INTO A ROOM AND COMPROMISE, JUST LIKE WE HAVE TO DO AT OUR LEVEL. THEY NEED TO DO THAT ALSO.

>> Gary: MAYBE WE CAN TOUCH ON THAT QUICKLY. YOU KNOW, I SPENT SOMETIME REPORTING IN ALBANY, AND SOME OF THE FOLKS THAT I STILL HAVE CONTACT WITH THERE SAY THAT THEY WANT THE LEGISLATURE, THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO PASS A THREE-MONTH EXTENDER EMERGENCY BILL, THEREFORE KEEPING THE WHOLE SUMMER PRETTY MUCH OPEN WITHOUT HAVING TO VOTE MONTHLY. I'M HEARING THAT THE DEMOCRATS IN THE ASSEMBLY ARE NOT GOING TO GO FOR THAT. IS THAT THE CASE?

>> AGAIN, WHAT I SAID EARLIER, I PERSONALLY WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANY EXTENDER LONGER THAN TWO WEEKS. THE PURPOSE OF THE EXTENDER IS TO CONTINUE TO FUND NOT-FOR-PROFIT, TO KEEP GOVERNMENT GOING, NOT SHUT IT DOWN LIKE CONGRESS DID. THE PUBLIC DID NOT LIKE THAT, AND WE SHOULDN'T PUNISH THEM BECAUSE OF OUR INABILITY TO HAVE A BUDGET. AT THE SAME TIME, WE CAN'T PUT A PROCESS IN PLACE THAT SAYS WE ARE GOING TO DO BUDGETS BY EXTENDERS AND NOT DEAL WITH THE ISSUES WE NEED, HOW MUCH MONEY WE NEED FOR SCHOOLS, ROADS, BRIDGES, PUBLIC SAFETY. THAT WOULD REALLY BE AN ABDICATION OF OUR RESPONSIBILITY, AND I AM ENCOURAGING ALL PEOPLE INVOLVED NOT TO GO FOR THAT.

>> Gary: SENATOR, WHAT ABOUT YOUR HOUSE?

>> WELL, THERE'S BEEN DISCUSSION ABOUT A THREE-MONTH EXTENDER BUT I THINK THAT THERE IS A DANGER IN THAT BECAUSE THAT LETS EVERYBODY OFF THE HOOK AS FAR AS THE BUDGET PROCESS IS CONCERNED; AND AS YOU KNOW THE REPUBLICANS IN THE ASSEMBLY AND THE REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE HAVE BEEN MEETING WEEKLY IN PUBLIC IN WHAT SHOULD BE A BUDGET CONFERENCE COMMITTEE, BUT WE'RE DOING THAT WITHOUT THE PRESENCE OF THE ASSEMBLY DEMOCRATS, WITH ALL RESPECT TO MY COLLEAGUE HERE. THE SPEAKER, SHELLY SILVER, AS I SAID HASN'T EVEN NAMED THOSE PEOPLE YET. HE HASN'T SHOWN ANY MOTIVATION, ANY ENERGY; HE HASN'T SHOWN ANY ACTION AT ALL ON DOING ANYTHING TO START THIS PROCESS, EXCEPT TO PROVIDE FOR OVER $2 BILLION WORTH OF INCREASES AGAINST THE GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL. BUT THE WHOLE THING IS THAT, IF WE CONTINUE TO DO EMERGENCY SPENDING, WHICH WE HAVE TO DO, BECAUSE I AGREE WE DON'T WANT TO SHUT THE GOVERNMENT DOWN. THAT WOULD BE FOOLISH, AND WE'VE NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE. THE WHOLE THING IS THAT, IF WE TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF THE LEGISLATURE, WE TAKE THE PRESSURE OFF OF EVERYBODY, THE ARGUMENT MIGHT BE THAT IF WE DO THREE MONTHS, THEN IT WILL GIVE US TIME TO GET THESE PEOPLE TOGETHER AND DO SOME TALKING, BUT TIME HAS ALREADY PASSED. WE DON'T NEED TO DO THAT.

>> Gary: LET ME BRING A THIRD VOICE IN ON THIS BECAUSE YOU HAD MENTIONED YOU'RE CRITICAL -- AT LEAST YOUR HOUSE IS CRITICAL OF THE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER, SHELDON SILVER. DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN VERY -- AND ASSEMBLIES ARE VERY CRITICAL OF THE GOVERNOR, AND WE DID TALK TO ONE LOCAL ASSEMBLYWOMAN, SUSAN JOHN, AND SHE HAD THIS TO SAY ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S PARTICIPATION IN THIS.

>> NEW YORKERS SHOULD BE OUTRAGED THAT GOVERNOR PATAKI WOULD EVEN SUGGEST NO BUDGET. THE GOVERNOR HAS A JOB AS THE ELECTED LEADER IN THE STATE TO BRING TOGETHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEWS. WHEN GOVERNOR CUOMO WAS GOVERNOR, HE BROUGHT TOGETHER THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS EVERY DAY TO TALK ABOUT A BUDGET WHEN THE BUDGET WAS LATE. SOMETIMES NO PROGRESS WAS MADE; SOMETIMES VERY INCREMENTAL PROGRESS WAS MADE. BUT THE GOVERNOR RECOGNIZED THAT HE HAD THAT RESPONSIBILITY AS THE HIGHEST ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE STATE. FOR SOME REASON, GOVERNOR PATAKI FEELS HE HAS NO OBLIGATION HERE AND, AS LONG AS THE PUBLIC AND THE MEDIA ALLOW THE GOVERNOR TO GET AWAY WITH CONVEYING THAT IMPRESSION, THE STATE WILL HAVE NO BUDGET.

>> Gary: MY POINT, FROM ALL OF THIS, IS THAT EACH SIDE IS GOING TO POINT FINGERS AT THE OTHER SIDE WHICH IS -- YOU KNOW, THIS IS HOW IT WORKS. I'VE COVERED THE BUDGET PROCESS IN ALBANY SEVERAL YEARS WHEN I WAS IN ALBANY. BUT I DID NOTICE ONE THING BACK THEN: THERE WERE LEADERS MEETING, IN OTHER WORDS SIT-DOWN MEETINGS WITH THE GOVERNOR, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER AND THE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER AT LEAST A COUPLE TIMES A WEEK NO MATTER HOW LATE THE BUDGET WAS. THEY ALWAYS SAT DOWN AND TALKED. IT WAS FRUSTRATING. THEY DIDN'T GET ANYTHING DONE HALF THE TIME, BUT THEY DID TALK, AND THAT SEEMS TO BE DIFFERENT NOW.

>> THIS IS THE MIDDLE EAST HAPPENING HERE IN ALBANY, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM. PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT. IF YOU LISTEN TO ASSEMBLYWOMAN JOHN, HER STATEMENT, IF YOU JUST LOOK UNDER THE SURFACE OF THAT, IS A PURELY POLITICAL STATEMENT. SHE'S BASHING THE GOVERNOR, DEFLECTING THE RESPONSIBILITY FROM HER OWN SPEAKER SHELLY SILVER. THE REAL PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE HERE, SHELLY SILVER WILL NOT EVEN INITIATE TALKS UNLESS THE GOVERNOR GIVES UP HIS CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO HAVE A LINE ITEM VETO, AND UNLESS THE GOVERNOR AGREES TO SHELLY SILVER'S REQUIREMENT, THEN SHELLY WILL NOT SIT DOWN WITH THE GOVERNOR. THE GOVERNOR HAS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO KEEP THAT VETO. THAT IS SHELLY SILVER'S FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS: GIVE UP YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO VETO AND THEN I'LL TALK TO YOU. LISTENING TO SUSAN JOHN SAYING THAT IT'S THE GOVERNOR'S FAULT IS PURE POLITICAL BALONEY.

>> I WOULD AGREE. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM, IN A NUTSHELL. THERE'S TWO MAJOR PROBLEMS: ONE IS POLITICAL, ONE'S REAL. ONE IS FIRST WE SHOULD ADOPT THE BILL THAT I'VE BEEN SUPPORTING FROM DAY ONE THAT SAYS WE ARE GOING TO ACCEPT THE ESTIMATE ON HOW MUCH MONEY WE HAVE TO SPEND. THIS DOESN'T MEAN WE CAN'T EARMARK PART OF THAT AND MOVE INTO NEXT YEAR. THE OTHER THING, I WOULD DISAGREE A LITTLE BIT WITH JIM. THERE IS DIALOGUE GOING ON, BELIEVE ME, GARY. WHETHER IT'S OUT IN THE PUBLIC AND IT'S POSTURING OR IT'S IN THE PROVERBIAL BACK ROOM, THE MEETINGS ARE GOING ON. THERE ARE SOME CRITICAL NEEDS HERE. SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION WAS PROMISED THAT NO MONEY WAS PUT IN THE EXECUTIVE'S BUDGET. CUT THE LONG-TERM NURSING HOME CARE WHEN WE KNOW THERE'S MORE PEOPLE GOING INTO THAT ARE TWO BIG THINGS THAT, EVEN FOR ME, A MORE MODERATE DEMOCRAT, I THINK NEED TO GET ADDRESSED. IF WE HAVE MONEY TO DO IT, WE SHOULD DO IT. WE ALL NEED TO STOP POINTING THE FINGERS AT EVERYONE. THESE AREN'T DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN ISSUES. THESE ARE HUMAN ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS. BUT FIRST THEY HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE HAVE AND WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO SPEND IT? WE'RE NOT EVEN TO THAT LEVEL YET BECAUSE THE POLITICS, AND IT'S WRONG. WE ALL NEED TO STOP...

>> Gary: YOU CAN UNDERSTAND. YOUR POINT ABOUT THE SPEAKER WAS CORRECT, ALTHOUGH A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN THEY DID COME UP WITH A BUDGET DEAL AND A HANDSHAKE DEAL, THE GOVERNOR VETOED EVERY SINGLE NUMBER ITEM THAT THE DEMOCRATS PUT ON THE TABLE AND NOT REPUBLICAN.

>> AND MONEY FOR PRE-K.

>> THAT'S NOT TRUE. HE DID VETO REPUBLICAN ISSUES AS WELL, SO THAT PART IS TRUE.

>> Gary: LET ME MAKE THIS POINT, THOUGH, AND ASK BOTH OF YOU BLUNTLY: THE LEADERS OF BOTH OF YOUR HOUSES, AND ASSEMBLYMAN ROBACH, YOU STOOD UP AS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO VOTE Mr. SILVER OUT OF THE ASSEMBLY.

>> WELL, AND ALSO MAKE SOME CHANGES TO THIS BUDGET PROCESS, ONE OF SEVENTEEN, EXACTLY.

>> Gary: BOTH LEADERS OF THE HOUSE SEEM TO BE VERY -- IS "CAVALIER" TOO STRONG A WORD? BY THIS LATE BUDGET PROCESS. THEY KIND OF SHRUG IT OFF SAYING WELL, YOU KNOW, LOOK, A LATE BUDGET'S BETTER THAN A BAD BUDGET. IS THAT THOUGHT SHARED IN THE CONFERENCE?

>> THAT'S A MISREPRESENTATION, GARY. I THINK YOU MENTIONED YOU HAVE COLLEAGUES STILL HERE IN ALBANY. THEN YOU MUST KNOW AND THE PEOPLE HERE MUST KNOW THAT SENATOR BRUNO HAS CONVENED MEETINGS IN PUBLIC EVERY WEDNESDAY AT 10:30, CALLING FOR THE SPEAKER, CALLING FOR THE ASSEMBLY MAJORITY TO COME AND START THE BUDGET CONFERENCE COMMITTEE. WHETHER YOU THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR SHOULD BE IN THESE ON A DAILY BASIS OR NOT IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE THE ASSEMBLY AND THE SENATE NEED TO START THAT BUDGET CONFERENCE MEETING, AND THE ASSEMBLY HASN'T SHOWN UP BECAUSE THE SPEAKER WON'T SHOW UP FOR THE REASON THAT I GAVE YOU. I ALSO THINK THAT THE SENATE -- AND I AGREE WITH JOE ON THIS BY THE WAY -- THE SENATE ALSO HAS A PROPOSAL, AS PART OF OUR BUDGET REFORM PACKAGE, TO LET THE CONTROLLER SET THE REVENUE THAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH. NOW, THIS IS THE SENATE REPUBLICANS SAYING WE WILL ALLOW THE DEMOCRAT CONTROLLER, KARL McCALL, TO COME UP WITH REVENUE SO THAT WE CAN ALL WORK. I THINK THAT THAT'S A VERY GOOD STEP TO SAY LET'S DO THIS IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

>> Gary: SEEMS MILES AWAY THOUGH, DOESN'T IT?

>> YOU KNOW WHAT? WHY ISN'T THAT BEING ADOPTED? WHY ISN'T JOE ROBACH'S PROPOSAL AND WHY ISN'T THE SENATE REPUBLIC'S PROPOSAL TO GIVE A DEMOCRAT CONTROLLER THE POWER TO GIVE US, THE LEGISLATURE, THE REVENUE FIGURE TO WORK WITH? IT'S NOT WORKING. IT'S NOT COMING THROUGH THE ASSEMBLY.

>> GARY, YOU POINTED OUT -- I HEARD FROM MY CONSTITUENCY, THEY BELIEVE WE CAN MERGE CONTENT AND TIMELINESS. THE ONLY WAY IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, REGARDLESS OF WHO THE LEADERS ARE IN ALBANY, IS IF THOSE THINGS ARE PUT IN STATUTE. IF WE HAVE INTO LAW, HERE'S THE DOLLAR AMOUNT YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT. YOU HAVE TO COME AND TALK ABOUT IT IN A PUBLIC ROOM OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AND THE MEDIA, NO OTHER BUSINESS WILL GET DONE. YOU'RE GOING TO BE SEQUESTERED IN ALBANY. WHATEVER CARROTS AND STICKS YOU WANT TO PUT IN THERE, THEY HAVE TO BE IN LAW, NOT AT THE WHIM OF LEADERSHIP WHETHER IT'S THE MAJORITY LEADER, THE SPEAKER OR THE GOVERNOR. I WILL SAY THIS, THOUGH, THE FEW LAWS WE HAVE PASSED TO TRY AND DO BUDGET PROCESSES, I WOULD SAY THIS IN ALL FAIRNESS, AND I AGREE WITH THE GOVERNOR ON MANY ISSUES. THE GOVERNOR SEEMS TO BE NOT INCLUDED, WHETHER IT'S HOLDING OUR PAY, WHICH WE'RE GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW AND I VOTED FOR, OR ANY OF THE OTHER MEASURES. I THINK THAT ALL THREE PARTIES DO HAVE TO PARTICIPATE TO REALLY GET TO A GOOD BUDGET, ALL POLITICS ASIDE. BUT THOSE STATUTE CHANGES HAVE TO OCCUR, AND UNTIL THEY DO, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THIS, AS YOU POINTED OUT, IN MY OPINION WILL BE CAVALIER, MORE POLITICAL AT TIMES RATHER THAN REAL SUBSTANTIAL BUDGETING WHICH IS WHAT WE NEED TO GET DOWN TO.

>> Gary: WE BEGAN THIS PROGRAM TALKING ABOUT THE IMPACT ON SCHOOL DISTRICTS. LET ME RETURN TO THAT BRIEFLY. WE LOOKED AT THIS LONG AND HARD GOING INTO THIS STORY. ONE SIDE CAN SAY, LOOK, THIS HAS HAPPENED FOR 16 YEARS. THE MONEY ALWAYS COMES. WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL? AND THE OTHER SIDE IS SAYING, LOOK, I'M NOT GOING TO COMMIT -- I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TAX DOLLARS THAT WE RAISE THROUGH OUR PROPERTY TAXPAYERS. I'M NOT GOING TO COMMIT A PROJECT IF I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DOLLAR AMOUNT IS. LET ME ASK YOU BOTH: IN YOUR OWN DISTRICTS, WE FEATURED SOMETHING IN YOUR DISTRICT, SENATOR, ROCHESTER WHICH THOUGHT LOTS OF MONEY'S GOING TO COME. LET'S JUST LET THEM GO ON WITH IT. WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM YOUR DISTRICT AND EDUCATORS IN YOUR DISTRICT? IS THIS REALLY A MAJOR ISSUE?

>> I THINK TO A LARGE EXTENT, IF YOU LISTEN TO THE SUPERINTENDENT OF EAST ROCHESTER SAY THAT WE HAVE BECOME USED TO THIS. IN OTHER WORDS, THE SUPERINTENDENTS OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVE BECOME USED TO THIS. THEY'RE GOING FORWARD WITH THEIR PROJECTS, AND SOME OF THAT IS ON THE "IF COME." HE EVEN SAID THAT EVENTUALLY WE'LL GET OUR MONEY. THEY KNOW THAT. WE KNOW THAT, EVENTUALLY, WHETHER WE'RE DOING THIS BUDGET IN EMERGENCY SPENDING BILLS OR WHEN WE FINALLY DO IT, THAT EVERYBODY WILL GET THEIR MONEY. THE PROBLEM, AS FAR AS SCHOOL AID, I THINK, IS PROBABLY NOT AS SEVERE AS THE PROBLEM WITH OTHER CAPITAL PROJECTS, ROADS AND BRIDGES AND THINGS LIKE THAT WHERE WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE WILLING TO WORK, READY TO WORK. WE HAVE ENGINEERING FIRMS, CONSTRUCTION FIRMS, ROAD FIRMS, ALL OF THOSE THINGS OUT THERE THAT HAVE A SEASON THAT THEY HAVE TO WORK IN. IF THEY DON'T GET THE CAPITAL ADVANCED, THEN THEY CAN'T DO THOSE. AND IN A SCHOOL SITUATION, AS THE SUPERINTENDENT SAID, YOU KNOW, 16 YEARS YOU EVENTUALLY GET THE HANG OF TAKING A LITTLE BIT OF A GAMBLE; BUT EVEN THAT IS WRONG. THEY SHOULD HAVE THE NUMBERS. THEY SHOULD KNOW. WHAT IT REALLY COMES BACK TO IS THEY HAVE TO HAVE A FIRM NUMBER TO WORK WITH, AND I WOULD GO BACK AND SAY WE IN THE REPUBLICAN SENATE AND ASSEMBLYMAN ROBACH AND SOME OF HIS COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID LET THE CONTROLLER GIVE US A NUMBER. IF WE HAD THAT NUMBER TO WORK WITH, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WOULD FEEL MUCH SAFER IN WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO AS FAR AS SPENDING WHETHER IT'S OPERATING AID OR BUILDING AID.

>> Gary: Mr. ROBACH, WHAT DO YOU HEAR?

>> I AGREE WITH JIM THAT, WHEN IT COMES TO OPERATING AID, THEY HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE AT WITHIN A SMALLER MARGIN. WHAT THE REAL ISSUE THIS YEAR IS IS BUILDING AID. THE EXECUTIVE DROVE, AFTER NOT HAVING ANY REAL INITIATIVES BUT TWO BUILDINGS, A VERY GOOD 80% ACROSS-THE-BOARD PROGRAM THAT SAID, IF YOUR VOTERS APPROVE THESE CAPITAL PROJECTS, WE WILL GIVE YOU AN ENHANCED AMOUNT OF MONEY FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK. WE ALL APPLAUDED THAT. WE WENT OUT AND SOLD IT. THE VOTERS OF GREECE IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT APPROVED THOSE PROJECTS ONLY TO HAVE THE STATE PORTION OF MONEY NOT BE PUT IN THE BUDGET. NOW, IF I'M SUPERINTENDENT STEVE WALLACE, FOR A BIG SCHOOL DISTRICT LIKE THAT, HOW DO I REALLY MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION, OR WHAT INFORMATION DO I HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD ON THOSE PROJECTS? BEST CASE SCENARIO, THOSE ARE GOING TO BE MOVED BACK ONE YEAR NOW BECAUSE OF THIS DELAY IN THE BUDGET. AND I THINK THAT'S BAD PUBLIC POLICY. I THINK, AFTER VOTER APPROVAL, WE REALLY SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE SERIOUSLY, AND I THINK IT'S -- THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE A LITTLE BIT UPSET KNOWING THIS IS GOING ON AND NO ONE TOOK ANY EXTRA CONSIDERATION IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET PROCESS QUITE FRANKLY IS WRONG.

>> Gary: RIGHT. BEYOND SCHOOLS, TOO, WE HAVE THE SUPER FUND. WE HAVE BOTH HOUSES ELECTED MONEY TO UPGRADE THE ELECTION PROCESS. DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THIS YEAR. FINANCIALLY AID TO COLLEGE STUDENTS AVAILABLE FOR SUMMER AND FALL, THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT'S GOING TO HAVE ANY TANGIBLE NUMBERS TO IT. AND AGAIN THIS WHOLE FINGERPRINTING IDEA ON THE PART OF EDUCATORS, IF YOU'RE BY LAW MANDATED TO FINGERPRINT NEW EMPLOYEES AND THERE'S NO DOLLARS TO DO IT, WHAT DO YOU DO?

>> WELL, THE LOCAL TAXPAYERS WILL PAY FOR THAT WHEN THEY VOTE FOR THEIR BUDGET. THE PROPERTY TAXES WILL COVER SOME OF THOSE THINGS. REMEMBER, PROPERTY TAXES COVER ABOUT HALF OF WHAT THE LOCAL SCHOOLS OPERATE ON ANYWAY. SO IT'S NOT AS IF NO MONEY COMES IN, AND I'M NOT EXCUSING THE STATE HERE, BUT THE VIEWERS SHOULD KNOW THAT AT LEAST HALF OF WHAT THE SCHOOLS HAVE TO OPERATE WITH COMES FROM PROPERTY TAXES, SO THERE IS MONEY COMING IN. AND THOSE EXPENSES CAN'T BE MET, BUT THEY SHOULD BE MET WITH A COMMITMENT OF A BUDGET FROM NEW YORK STATE.

>> Gary: WE'RE ALMOST OUT OF TIME. I WANT TO ASK BOTH OF YOU, IS THERE GOING TO BE A BUDGET ENACTED THIS YEAR OR IS THERE A REAL POSSIBILITY WE CAN GO THE WHOLE YEAR GOING ON LAST YEAR'S BUDGET?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT IF WE GET PAST THE MIDDLE OF AUGUST, WHICH IS ABOUT THE TIME THAT SCHOOL DISTRICTS WILL BE SENDING OUT THEIR PROPERTY TAX BILLS; IF THEY DO THAT WITHOUT A BUDGET, IF THEY DO THAT GUESSING, THEN THERE'S NO REAL IMPETUS FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO PASS. THAT'S THE ONE BIG HOOK. IF WE GET PAST THAT, WE'RE IN TROUBLE.

>> Gary: MR. ROBACH?

>> GARY, I'M PUTTING A LOT OF PRESSURE AND EDUCATION ON MY DOWNSTATE COLLEAGUES TO LET THEM KNOW, AS JIM POINTS OUT, WE HAVE TO HAVE A BUDGET BEFORE THAT DATE FOR UPSTATE SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO MAIL OUT THEIR TAX BILL, AND I'M HOPEFUL AND TRY AND LEAD AGAIN SOME REFORMS OR EFFORT TO NOT VOTE FOR LAW EXTENDERS TO TRY AND MAKE THAT BUDGET HAPPEN AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

>> Gary: GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS DISCUSSION. BUT ABOUT ONE YEAR AGO, "NEED TO KNOW" BROUGHT YOU A STORY ABOUT A 3-YEAR-OLD BOY AND HIS FAMILY WHO WERE WAITING FOR A HEART TRANSPLANT. WE HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE STORY AND, TODAY, ALMOST ONE YEAR LATER, WXXI's JENNIFER REED HAS THIS UPDATE.

(Singing)

>> HE'S REALLY WORKED HIS WAY INTO THE HEARTS OF A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> Jennifer: ROCHESTER NATIVE KIMBERLY LAHMON-HOSER AND HER HUSBAND RUSSELL HAVE BEEN SPREADING THE WORD ABOUT ORGAN DONATION AWARENESS. THE HOSERS, WHO NOW LIVE IN OHIO, SPENT YEARS WAITING FOR A HEART FOR THEIR SON JONAH. JONAH WAS BORN WITH A SEVERE HEART DEFECT. THE HOSERS FIRST TRIED THE SURGICAL ROUTE BUT HIS HEART COULD NOT BE REPAIRED, AND TRANSPLANTATION BECAME THEIR ONLY OPTION.

>> TO US IT WAS SCIENCE FICTION. WE DIDN'T KNOW ANYONE THAT HAD EVER HAD A TRANSPLANT.

>> Jennifer: ACROSS THE NATION, THERE ARE ABOUT 135 CHILDREN WAITING FOR A NEW HEART. LESS THAN 30 OF THOSE 135 ACTUALLY RECEIVE ONE.

>> WE HAD BEEN TOLD ORIGINALLY THAT A YEAR WAS A PRETTY TYPICAL WAIT. IT'S BEEN ALMOST A YEAR AND A HALF NOW.

>> IT'S A LONG WAIT.

>> I WOULD BE LYING IF I DIDN'T SAY I THOUGHT ABOUT ALL THE POSSIBLE OUTCOMES MILLIONS OF TIMES.

>> THE OPTIMISTIC PERSON IN ME COMES OUT, THOUGH, AND I REFUSE TO BELIEVE ANYTHING BUT THE BEST FOR MY SON. SO I SEE HIM AS A HEALTHY LITTLE 4-YEAR-OLD, GETTING ON THAT SCHOOL BUS AND GOING TO PRESCHOOL AND WAVING GOOD-BYE TO ME (sniffling) AND I THANK GOD, AND I'M GOING TO THANK HIM SO MUCH BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I WANT SO MUCH WITH ALL MY HEART AND ALL MY SOUL, SO BAD THAT IT HURTS. THAT'S WHAT I WANT.

>> Jennifer: ANOTHER YEAR WENT PAST, BUT ON FEBRUARY 23rd, 2001, THE HOSERS GOT THE CALL THEY HAD BEEN WAITING FOR. IT WAS A PERFECT MATCH. JONAH BEAT THE ODDS AND GOT HIS NEW HEART. BUT THE CELEBRATION IS BITTERSWEET.

>> IT WAS A REAL STRUGGLE WITH ME AT FIRST. I HAD TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THE IDEA THAT ANOTHER FAMILY WAS GOING TO HAVE TO LOSE THEIR CHILD SO THAT MINE WOULD LIVE. IT DOESN'T SEEM VERY FAIR, YOU KNOW. IT'S REALLY HARD.

>> IT'S THE OPTION OF THE DONOR FAMILY TO REVEAL THEMSELVES IF THEY CHOOSE AND HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH US. >> ONE SPECIAL THING THAT WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT, THOUGH, IS WE'D LIKE TO FIND OUT WHAT THE CHILD'S NAME IS AND WE WANT TO RENAME OUR SON WITH THAT NAME.

>> INCLUDE THAT NAME WITH HIS CURRENT NAME. \M Happy birthday to Jonah \M

>> Jennifer: JONAH, WHO IS NOW FOUR YEARS OLD, DOESN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED, BUT HE DOES UNDERSTAND WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO HAVE A HEALTHY HEART AND A VERY HAPPY FAMILY.

>> WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO GIVE HOPE TO OTHER COUPLES BY SHOWING HOW GOOD HE'S DOING. THAT'S ONE THING THAT CERTAINLY ALWAYS UPLIFTS OUR SPIRITS IS WHEN WE CAN FIND A SUCCESS STORY THAT WE CAN SORT OF LATCH ONTO AND PULL US THROUGH SOME OF THE VALLEYS.

>> Jennifer: IT'S STILL A LONG ROAD FOR THE HOSERS. JONAH NEEDS TO TAKE SEVERAL MEDICATIONS DAILY TO HELP WARD OFF INFECTION AND REJECTION, BUT TAKING CARE OF JONAH'S NEW HEART IS A WELCOME CHALLENGE, SOMETHING THEY HOPE TO SHARE WITH THEIR DONOR FAMILY.

>> I JUST WANT THEM TO SEE WHAT THEY WERE ABLE TO DO AND HOW THE SPIRIT OF THEIR CHILD CAN LIVE ON IN JONAH.

>> Gary: THE HOSERS HAVE MADE CONTACT WITH THE DONOR FAMILY THROUGH THEIR TRANSPLANT CENTER, BUT AT THIS TIME THE DONOR FAMILY HAS NOT COME FORWARD. THE HOSERS HOPE THAT, IN TIME, THEY WILL. THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW." NEXT WEEK, JOIN US FOR COMPUTER CRIMES. WE'LL TELL YOU HOW TO STAY SAFE WHILE SURFING ON-LINE. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

(Music)

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