>>
Gary Walker: JUST AHEAD ON
"NEED TO KNOW," WE'RE TALKING
FINANCES TONIGHT ON TWO
FRONTS: THE FISCAL TROUBLES
OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TO
AMERICA'S CREDIT CARD DEBT.
WE'LL START WITH THE CITY
SCHOOL DISTRICT, WHICH IS
REPORTING A $29 MILLION BUDGET
SHORTAGE AND IS FACING THE
PROSPECT OF TEACHER LAYOFFS.
THEN WE'LL TALK ABOUT PERHAPS
YOU OR SOMEONE YOU KNOW.
CREDIT CARD DEBT, SWAMPING
MILLIONS OF AMERICANS.
WE'LL TALK WITH ONE PERSON WHO
GOT BURIED IN DEBT AND THEN
WITH EXPERTS ON HOW TO DIG OUT
FROM UNDER.
AND WE'LL ALSO BE JOINED BY
ELLEN ROSEN OF "THE DEMOCRAT
AND CHRONICLE" FOR THIS WEEK'S
BUSINESS SEGMENT.
THAT'S ALL COMING UP NEXT ON
"NEED TO KNOW."
>> MOST PEOPLE HAVE CREDIT
CARDS AND MOST PEOPLE USE
THEIR CREDIT CARDS.
BUT NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE PAY
OFF THE BALANCE EACH MONTH.
>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE
ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH
NEWS PROGRAM.
"NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION
OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES,
POLITICS, EDUCATION AND
CURRENT EVENTS.
>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS
JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL
LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT
OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>> Gary Walker: THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US.
I'M GARY WALKER.
NOW, MANY OF US HAVE ENOUGH
DIFFICULTY BALANCING OUR OWN
HOUSEHOLD BUDGET.
YOU CAN IMAGINE WHAT THE
ROCHESTER CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT
IS FACING AS THE BOARD VOTES
TONIGHT ON PHASE ONE OF A
COST-CUTTING PLAN.
IT APPEARS THE DISTRICT BUDGET
REALLY HAS HIT A LOW WITH THE
FUTURE OF MANY TEACHERS AND
EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS HANGING
IN THE BALANCE.
WXXI 1370 AM RADIO'S MARK
GIARDINA HAS BEEN COVERING
THIS STORY AND JOINS US FOR
SOME ANALYSIS.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US,
MARK.
I GUESS WHAT WE REALLY SHOULD
DO IS START WITH THE IDEA THAT
THE SCHOOL DISTRICT VOTES
TONIGHT ON A PHASE ONE PLAN,
BUT FROM WHAT I CAN TELL, IT'S
ONLY A COUPLE OF A MILLION
DOLLARS.
WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A $25
MILLION GAP, WHY IS PHASE ONE
SO SMALL?
>> Mark Giardina: THEY'RE
WAITING FOR FINAL FIGURES.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE FINAL
FIGURES YET.
THEY WANT TO GIVE THE SCHOOL
DISTRICT TIME TO GET THESE
FIGURES IN, AND THAT'S WHY
THEY'RE HOLDING THE PHASE ONE
MEETING TONIGHT.
AND THEN IN JANUARY, THEY'RE
GOING TO HOLD ANOTHER MEETING.
BY THEN, HOPEFULLY, THE NEWLY
ESTABLISHED FINANCE GROUP THAT
THEY HAVE WILL HAVE THE FINAL
FIGURES FOR THE BOARD TO
DETERMINE EXACTLY HOW MUCH
MONEY THEY'RE LOSING.
>> Gary Walker: REPUBLICANS
RIGHT NOW ARE ACCUSING THE
CITY -- THE SCHOOL DISTRICT
AND CITY ADMINISTRATION, ALL
DEMOCRATS -- OF SAYING THAT
THEY HELD THE KNOWLEDGE OF
THIS DEFICIT, WHICH AT THE
TIME WAS $29 MILLION, UNTIL
AFTER THE ELECTION.
NOW, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE
FACTS ARE, THE SCHOOL DISTRICT
DID REALLY KNOW EARLY ON, I
THINK IN THE FIRST WEEK OF
THIS FISCAL YEAR, THAT THERE
WAS GOING TO BE A CASH
SHORTFALL.
WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG FOR US
TO FIND OUT ABOUT THIS?
>> Mark Giardina: WELL, THAT'S
A QUESTION THAT MAYOR JOHNSON
HAS ASKED.
HE WANTS TO KNOW WHY.
THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WILL SAY,
ON ONE HAND, THAT THEY WERE
EXPECTING STATE AID FROM
ALBANY.
ON THE OTHER HAND, THE CRITICS
ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT THE
SCHOOL DISTRICT USED UP ALL OF
ITS MONEY, AND ITS BUDGET
SHORTFALL IS THE RESULT OF
DIPPING INTO ITS RESERVE
FUNDS.
SO AGAIN, WE REALLY DON'T KNOW
THE TRUE ANSWER TO THAT.
>> Gary Walker: RIGHT NOW, THE
ASSEMBLY DID PONY UP ANOTHER
$4 MILLION IN ADDITIONAL AID,
WHICH AT THE TIME WAS A $29
MILLION DEFICIT.
DO THE MATH.
WE'RE AT A $25 MILLION
DEFICIT.
IS THE CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT
BANKING ON MORE STATE AID?
THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN PRETTY
PLAIN BY SAYING, YOU KNOW,
FORGET IT.
BUT ARE THEY BANKING ON MORE
STATE AID?
>> Mark Giardina: THEY'RE
KEEPING THEIR FINGERS CROSSED,
BUT I THINK THEY HAVE ABOUT AS
MUCH CHANCE OF WINNING THE NEW
YORK STATE LOTTERY THAN HAVING
THE GOVERNOR COME ACROSS WITH
ANY MORE MONEY.
NOW, THEY'RE HOPING THAT THE
STATE SENATE WILL FOLLOW SUIT
AS THE ASSEMBLY DID.
BUT THAT MAY BE A BIT TOUGHER.
THEY DID GET FEDERAL MONEY,
BUT THAT MONEY UNFORTUNATELY
FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, THEY
WILL NOT BE ABLE TO USE IT
UNTIL THE SUMMER, WHICH IS TOO
LATE.
>> Gary Walker: RIGHT NOW, YOU
HAVE THE DISTRICT LOOKING AT
THIS GAP, IF THERE'S GOING TO
BE LIMITED FUNDS COMING FROM
THE STATE, AND WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT MASSIVE CUTS TO MAKE UP
THE DEFICIT, LIKE THERE MAY BE
UP TO 600 OR 800 TEACHERS.
ARE THEY BANKING ON THE CITY
TAXPAYERS HAVING A PROPERTY
TAX INCREASE TO CLOSE THIS
GAP?
>> Mark Giardina: AGAIN,
THAT'S A QUESTION I REALLY
COULDN'T ANSWER BECAUSE
WITHOUT THE FINAL FIGURES, WE
DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SCHOOL
BOARD'S OPTIONS ARE.
I DID SPEAK TO SOMEBODY
RECENTLY AND ASKED THEM THE
QUESTION SHOULD THE BIG FIVE
CITIES LIKE ROCHESTER DO LIKE
SMALL CITIES AND SUBURBAN
SCHOOL DISTRICTS, AND THAT IS
NOT DEPEND ON STATE AID WHEN
PUTTING THE BUDGET TOGETHER
BUT INSTEAD JUST GOING TO THE
TAXPAYERS?
THAT'S PROBABLY THE BETTER WAY
TO DO IT BECAUSE THE STATE AID
FORMULA RIGHT NOW FOR
EDUCATION IS NOT WORKING.
>> Gary Walker: I'M NOT SURE
IF PROPERTY TAXPAYERS WOULD
LIKE TO HEAR THAT.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE
TEACHERS' UNION.
THE PRESIDENT HAS COME UP WITH
A PROPOSAL SAYING DON'T CUT
TEACHERS; SHORTEN THE SCHOOL
YEAR.
OR JUST DISSOLVE THE CITY
DISTRICT AND HAVE THE SUBURBS
ANNEX IT.
THE LIKELIHOOD OF THOSE?
>> Mark Giardina: WELL, I'M
NOT A LAWYER, BUT I BELIEVE
THAT UNDER STATE LAW YOU HAVE
TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF
DAYS FOR SCHOOL TO BE IN
SESSION; OTHERWISE YOU LOSE
STATE AID.
AND THAT'S THE LAST THING THEY
WANT TO LOSE FOR NEXT YEAR.
FOR THE SUBURBAN SCHOOLS,
THERE'S NO WAY I CAN CONCEIVE
OF THE SUBURBAN SCHOOL
DISTRICTS OPENING THEIR DOORS
AND SAYING, "OKAY, SURE, WE'LL
TAKE 30,000 OF YOUR STUDENTS
AND PUT THEM INTO OUR
SCHOOLS."
>> Gary Walker: THE CITY IS
INVESTIGATING THIS.
WHAT IS NEXT ON THAT?
>> Mark Giardina: WELL, THE
CITY COUNCIL DID AUTHORIZE THE
HIRING OF A PRIVATE CONSULTING
FIRM TO LOOK OVER THE CITY
SCHOOL DISTRICT BOOKS.
THEY WANT TO FIND OUT IF, AS
YOU MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING
OF THE SHOW, DID THE SCHOOL
DISTRICT KNOW THAT THERE WAS A
DEFICIT?
DID THEY OVERSPEND?
DID THEY GO INTO THEIR
SURPLUS?
THEY WANT SOME ANSWERS AS
WELL.
>> Gary Walker: OKAY.
AND WE'LL BE COVERING THAT
MEETING TONIGHT?
>> Mark Giardina: YES.
>> Gary Walker: OKAY.
THAT IS THE TIME WE HAVE RIGHT
NOW.
THANK YOU, MARK.
THIS IS CERTAINLY A STORY THAT
WON'T BE GOING AWAY ANY TIME
SOON.
WE'LL BRING YOU UP TO DATE ON
COVERAGE OF THE CITY SCHOOL
BUDGET CRISIS IN THE COMING
WEEKS.
AND BE SURE TO HEAR ALL ABOUT
TONIGHT'S MEETING TOMORROW
MORNING ON WXXI'S "MORNING
EDITION" ON AM 1370.
NOW TO PERSONAL FINANCE.
FOR MANY PEOPLE, USING A
CREDIT CARD TO PAY FOR THINGS
THEY CAN'T AFFORD IMMEDIATELY
ALLOWS PEOPLE TO LIVE ABOVE
THEIR MEANS.
BUT EVENTUALLY THOSE BILLS
COME DUE, LEAVING MANY PEOPLE
SCRAMBLING TO PAY THEM OFF.
AND THE PROBLEM IS GETTING
WORSE.
LAST YEAR, THE AVERAGE CREDIT
CARD DEBT FOR AMERICANS WHO
CARRY MONTHLY BALANCES REACHED
AN ALL-TIME HIGH OF MORE THAN
$5,600.
THAT'S AN INCREASE OF
ONE-THIRD SINCE 1995.
FEES FOR LATE PAYMENTS,
CHARGING OVER YOUR LIMIT, AND
BALANCE TRANSFERS ARE JUST A
FEW OF THE WAYS CREDIT CARD
COMPANIES ARE ADDING TO
CONSUMER CREDIT DEBT, BUT AS
WE EXPLAIN LATER IN THE
PROGRAM, CONSUMERS OFTEN HAVE
ONLY THEMSELVES TO BLAME, WITH
MAY HAVING DIFFICULTY
CONTROLLING THIS SPENDING
HABIT.
AND WHO IS THE BENEFICIARY OF
CONSUMER CREDIT DEBT?
WELL, YOU GUESSED IT: THE SAME
CREDIT CARD COMPANIES WHO
ENTICE USERS WITH LOW
INTRODUCTORY RATES.
SINCE 1975, THE PROFITS HAVE
TRIPLED, JUMPING FROM $7
BILLION TO MORE THAN $20
BILLION.
NOW, LOCALLY, WE ARE JOINING
THE REST OF AMERICA IN RACKING
UP CREDIT DEBT.
CONSUMER CREDIT COUNSELING
REPORTS THEIR NUMBER OF
CLIENTS HAS DOUBLED IN THE
PAST FOUR YEARS.
AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EVERY
DAY PEOPLE -- FRIENDS, FAMILY,
CO-WORKERS -- WHO WOULD RATHER
BUY NOW AND PAY LATER.
"NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS
REPORTS THAT SHIFT IN ATTITUDE
IS AT THE HEART OF THE
PROBLEM.
>> Matt Cummings: IF YOU'VE
CHECKED YOUR MAIL RECENTLY,
YOU HAVE PROBABLY FOUND MORE
THAN A FEW NEW CREDIT CARD
SOLICITATIONS.
IN FACT, THE AVERAGE AMERICAN
HOUSEHOLD RECEIVES EIGHT NEW
CREDIT CARD OFFERS EVERY
MONTH, A SEEMINGLY ENDLESS
SUPPLY OF BUYING POWER, READY
AND WAITING FOR AN
UNSUSPECTING CONSUMER... UNTIL
THE BILLS COME DUE.
>> OH, IT WAS SCARY.
IT WAS VERY SCARY.
I MEAN, I WOULD BE NERVOUS ALL
THE TIME.
I WOULD BE VERY STRESSED ABOUT
IT BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE DEBT.
IT REALLY BOTHERS ME A LOT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T STOP
ME.
>> Matt Cummings: KAREN IS
JUST ONE OF MILLIONS OF
AMERICANS WHO CARRY A MONTHLY
BALANCE.
>> PROBABLY THE HIGHEST IT GOT
WAS PROBABLY AROUND $10,000.
AND THAT WAS JUST MINE ALONE.
THAT DIDN'T INCLUDE MY
HUSBAND'S.
>> NOWADAYS, IT'S USED
BASICALLY AS A LIVING TOOL.
A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN
INTO TROUBLE BECAUSE THEY'RE
USING THEIR CREDIT CARDS TO
SUPPLEMENT THEIR INCOME.
THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INCOME
TO BUY WHAT THEY WANT, AND
THEY DON'T HAVE THE INCENTIVE
TO SAVE FOR IT LIKE THEY DID
15 OR 20 YEARS AGO, SO THEY
USE A CREDIT CARD TO BUY IT
NOW BECAUSE THEY WANT IT RIGHT
NOW.
THEY DON'T WANT TO WAIT A YEAR
TO SAVE $50 A MONTH.
>> Matt Cummings: JOHN
GILLIGAN SAYS THAT'S THE KEY
TO EXPLAINING AMERICA'S CREDIT
CARD CRAZE.
AS THE DIRECTOR OF CONSUMER
CREDIT COUNSELING OF
ROCHESTER, HE SAYS THAT SHIFT
IN ATTITUDE COMBINED WITH
WILLING CREDIT LENDERS HAS
CREATED MASSIVE CONSUMER DEBT,
EVEN LOCALLY.
>> THIS YEAR HAS BEEN OUR
BUSIEST YEAR YET.
WE'LL SEE CLOSE TO 6,000
PEOPLE THIS YEAR COMING
THROUGH OUR DOORS FOR THE
FIRST TIME.
WE HAVE CURRENTLY ALMOST 3,700
ACTIVE CLIENTS.
FIVE YEARS AGO, WE HAD ABOUT
1,800.
SO WE HAVE JUST ABOUT DOUBLED
OUR ACTIVE CLIENTS OVER THE
PAST FIVE YEARS.
>> Matt Cummings: SO WHO'S
RACKING UP THIS DEBT?
PROBABLY SOMEONE YOU KNOW.
THE TYPICAL CLIENT AT CONSUMER
CREDIT SERVICES IS 38 YEARS
OLD, MARRIED WITH TWO
CHILDREN, WITH AN AVERAGE
ANNUAL INCOME OF $30,000.
40% ARE HOME OWNERS AND
SLIGHTLY MORE THAN HALF ARE
WOMEN.
ALL TOLD, THEY OWE TEN
DIFFERENT CREDITORS A TOTAL OF
$17,000.
>> YOU GET TO A POINT WHERE
YOU JUST -- YOU'RE SO USED TO
BUYING THINGS ALL THE TIME
THAT YOU DON'T EVEN THINK
ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES
AFTERWARDS.
>> Matt Cummings: GILLIGAN
BELIEVES THE ROOT TO THE
PROBLEM LIES IN CONSUMERS'
LACK OF EDUCATION ON HOW TO
PROPERLY USE CREDIT LINES AND
THE BELIEF THAT CREDIT CARDS
ALLOW YOU TO LIVE A LIFESTYLE
ABOVE YOUR MEANS.
>> BUT AS YOU KEEP USING THE
CREDIT CARDS AND YOUR MINIMUM
PAYMENTS INCREASE FROM $20 TO
$120, OR EVEN HIGHER, AND YOU
HAVE MORE THAN ONE CREDIT
CARD, AT THAT POINT IT BECOMES
A PROBLEM BECAUSE YOUR CASH
FLOW NOW CAN'T EVEN HANDLE THE
MINIMUM PAYMENTS THAT YOU'RE
MAKING ON THOSE CREDIT CARDS.
>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE THE
CASH RIGHT NOW, BUT I REALLY
WANT IT NOW, SO I'M JUST GOING
TO GET IT.
WHEN THE BILL COMES IN, I'LL
THEN JUST PAY THE MINIMUM ON
IT.
IT WASN'T, YOU KNOW -- IT
WASN'T AT THE POINT WHERE I
WOULD SAY, "WELL, IF I DON'T
HAVE THE CASH, I'M NOT GOING
TO GET IT."
IF I WANTED IT, I BOUGHT IT.
>> Matt Cummings: GILLIGAN
CITES EVEN SIMPLE PURCHASES
LIKE GROCERIES AS A POTENTIAL
PROBLEM.
CLIENTS REPORT USING THEIR
CREDIT CARDS TO BUY GROCERIES
ON A WEEKLY BASIS, THINKING
THEY WOULD PAY OFF THAT
BALANCE AT THE END OF THE
MONTH.
SPENDING ON AVERAGE $200 A
WEEK AT THE GROCER ADDS UP TO
AT LEAST $800 IN CREDIT CARD
DEBT EACH MONTH, WHICH MOST
PEOPLE DO NOT PAY OFF
IMMEDIATELY.
AND THEN THERE'S THE ISSUE OF
REVOLVING CREDIT DEBT.
>> WHAT MANY PEOPLE DO IS THEY
WILL TAKE A CASH ADVANCE ON
ONE OF THE CREDIT CARDS.
THEY'LL TAKE OUT $300 OR $400
AND USE THAT MONEY TO MAKE THE
PAYMENTS ON THE OTHER CREDIT
CARDS.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN YOUR
LINES RUN OUT, WHEN THERE'S NO
MORE CREDIT AVAILABLE, THEN
YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO MAKE THE
PAYMENTS ON ANY OF THE CARDS,
OR ONLY ON A FEW OF THEM, AND
YOU HAVE NO SOURCE OF EXTRA
CASH THAT YOU CAN GET TO MAKE
THE MINIMUM PAYMENTS.
>> IT BECAME A VICIOUS CYCLE
BECAUSE I WOULD NEED THE CASH
TO PAY MY CREDIT CARD, BUT
THEN WHEN I NEEDED SOMETHING,
I DIDN'T HAVE THE CASH, SO I
WOULD PUT IT ON THE CREDIT
CARD.
SO IT ENDED UP BECOMING A REAL
VICIOUS CYCLE.
>> Matt Cummings: UNTIL YOU
SIT DOWN AND DO THE MATH,
RECOGNIZING THE IMPACT OF
CREDIT CARD DEBT MAY NOT
STRIKE YOU.
BY CALCULATING THE AVERAGE
BALANCE CARRIED OF $5,610 BY
THE AVERAGE INTEREST RATE OF
18% AND THEN THE MINIMUM
PERCENTAGE AMOUNT YOU'RE
REQUIRED TO PAY -- USUALLY
BETWEEN 2% AND 3% -- AND
VOILA!
IT WILL TAKE ONLY 324
PAYMENTS, OR 27 YEARS, TO PAY
OFF YOUR DEBT.
AND OH, BY THE WAY, YOU'LL BE
PAYING OVER $8,000 IN INTEREST
ON YOUR $5,600 BALANCE.
>> I JUST FIGURED, "OH, IT'S A
CREDIT CARD AND I'LL PUT IT ON
THERE AND PAY THE MINIMUM
EVERY MONTH AS IT COMES IN."
I JUST NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IT.
>> Matt Cummings: SHE
CONSOLIDATED THE $10,000 IN
CREDIT DEBT SHE WAS CARRYING
ON THREE SEPARATE CARDS ON TO
ONE CARD WITH AN INTRODUCTORY
SIX-MONTH ZERO PERCENT
INTEREST RATE.
SHE HAS PAID OFF $1,500 SO FAR
BUT CONTINUES TO USE IT TO
MAKE PURCHASES.
HOWEVER, SHE'S HAD TO MAKE
SOME TOUGH DECISIONS.
>> I'M MORE OR LESS LOOKING AT
IF I CAN'T AFFORD IT, THEN I
DON'T NEED IT.
IF I CAN'T PAY CASH, I DON'T
NEED OR, OR IF I CAN'T PAY IT
OFF AS SOON AS I CHARGE IT, I
DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.
(Music)
>> Gary Walker: HAVING
SUBSTANTIAL CREDIT CARD DEBT
CAN NOT ONLY HAVE A NEGATIVE
IMPACT ON YOUR FINANCES BUT IT
CAN ALSO AFFECT YOUR HEALTH.
ACCORDING TO A SURVEY OF
INVESTOR.ORG, A NON-PROFIT
FINANCIAL CRISIS CENTER,
NEARLY HALF OF THE PEOPLE WHO
HAVE PROBLEMS WITH DEBT ARE
EXPERIENCING SYMPTOMS OF
DEPRESSION WITH SINGLE WOMEN
AT THE GREATEST RISK FOR
DEPRESSION RELATED TO
FINANCIAL PROBLEMS.
JOINING US NOW TO DISCUSS HOW
TO BETTER MANAGE OUR CREDIT
ARE:
ELLEN ROSEN.
SHE'S THE BUSINESS EDITOR OF
"THE DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
KATHY ROTH, FINANCIAL PLANNER
FOR SAGE RUTTY, AND GEORGE
HAMLIN IV.
HE IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE
CANANDAIGUA NATIONAL BANK AND
TRUST.
THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US.
I GUESS WE'LL START OUT PRETTY
GENERICALLY AND SAY, WELL, IF
THE AVERAGE CREDIT CARD DEBT
IS $5,600-PLUS, IS THAT REALLY
SO BAD?
>> WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S
BAD BECAUSE THAT MEANS YOU CAN
LEVERAGE YOUR FUTURE
EMPLOYMENT.
THE KEY IS FUTURE EMPLOYMENT,
THAT'S WHERE WE REALLY WORRY.
YOU CAN ENJOY YOUR
REFRIGERATOR NOW AS OPPOSED TO
LATER.
AS LONG AS YOU DO THAT IN AN
APPROPRIATE BALANCE, WHICH I'M
SURE WE'LL HEAR ABOUT THE REST
OF THIS CONVERSATION, THAT'S
PERFECTLY SAFE TO DO AND,
AFTER ALL, IT IS AMERICAN TO
DO THAT.
>> I, HOWEVER, THINK THAT IT'S
KIND OF BAD BECAUSE I'M
INTERESTED IN HELPING PREPARE
LONG-TERM, AND IF THEY HAVE A
NEAR-TERM DEBT THAT'S DOGGING
THEM, IT -- IT MAKES THEM NOT
FOCUS ON BIGGER ISSUES THAT
NEED BIGGER SOLUTIONS, AND THE
MONEY ISN'T LIKELY TO GET
FOCUSED IN AN AREA THAT THEY
ULTIMATELY ARE GOING TO NEED.
>> Gary Walker: YOU'RE A
FINANCIAL PLANNER.
HAVE YOU SEEN -- WE'RE
REPORTING INCREASES OF PEOPLE
HAVING MORE AND MORE CREDIT
CARD DEBT.
HAVE YOU SEEN THAT IN PEOPLE
WHO COME TO YOU FOR FINANCIAL
PLANNING?
>> MOST PEOPLE ARE COMING AND
REPORTING THAT THEY ARE
CARRYING SOME KIND OF CREDIT
CARD DEBT AND THERE'S
DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT'S THEIR
PLAN?
HOW ARE THEY PROCESSING IT
ALONG THE WAY?
THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE WHO ARE
COMING WHO REPORT IT JUST AS A
CASH FLOW MECHANISM AND PAY IT
OFF AT THE END OF EACH MONTH.
IT IS PART OF OUR ECONOMIC
SYSTEM.
IT'S PART OF MONEY MANAGEMENT.
IT'S PART OF A TOOL THAT'S IN
OUR SOCIETY AND IN EVERYBODY'S
BUDGET, BUT WE'RE FINDING THAT
MORE ARE CHOOSING TO FEEL THAT
IT'S OKAY TO CARRY THIS DEBT.
THE MORE WE HEAR THAT
EVERYBODY IS DOING IT, SOMEHOW
IT TAKES US A LITTLE BIT OFF
THE HOOK.
>> Gary Walker: AH.
ELLEN, I WAS WONDERING,
COVERING THE ECONOMY AS YOU
DO, HIGH PERSONAL CREDIT DEBT,
GENERALLY AS A RULE OF THUMB,
IS IT BAD FOR THE ECONOMY,
GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY?
IT WOULD SEEM TO ME IF YOU
HAVE A HIGH CREDIT CARD DEBT,
YOU'RE BUYING LOTS OF STUFF,
AND THAT'S GOOD FOR THE
ECONOMY.
>> Ellen: WELL, A CERTAIN
AMOUNT OF DEBT IS NECESSARY TO
KEEP THE ECONOMY RUNNING.
PEOPLE ARE BUYING THINGS AND
IT DOES KEEP THINGS MOVING,
BUT AGAIN, IF YOU GET TO THE
LEVEL WHERE YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO
PAY IT BACK, THAT'S NOT GOOD
EITHER FOR THE COMPANY YOU OWE
THE DEBT TO OR YOUR OWN
PERSONAL PLAN FOR FINANCES.
SAME THING WITH COMPANIES.
LARGE COMPANIES -- ALL
COMPANIES RELY ON A CERTAIN
AMOUNT OF DEBT, LOANS THEY
TAKE OUT FROM BANKS, REVOLVING
CREDIT LINES THAT THEY TAKE
OUT TO MEET PAYROLL AND KEEP
OPERATIONS RUNNING, BUT IF YOU
GET TO A POINT WHERE THEY
FORESEE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE
ABLE TO PAY THAT OFF, YOUR
CREDIT RATING DIPS AND ALL OF
A SUDDEN YOU CAN'T BORROW
MONEY ANYMORE.
>> Gary Walker: Mr. HAMLIN, I
HAVE TO ASK YOU HERE, YOU'RE A
BANKER AND A LOT OF FOLKS WHO
ARE DECRYING THIS ARE POINTING
THE FINGER AT BANKS.
I KNOW CANANDAIGUA BANK DOES
NOT HAVE A HIGH -- IT'S NOT A
BIG PART OF YOUR BUSINESS,
CREDIT CARDS.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> Gary Walker: AS A COMMUNITY
BANK, IT'S LIKELY NOT TO BE.
BUT THERE'S LOTS OF
FINGER-POINTING AT BANKS
SAYING -- YOU KNOW, I DON'T
KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I GO TO MY
MAILBOX AND THERE'S FOUR
SOLICITATIONS A WEEK FOR
CREDIT CARDS, ALWAYS ZERO
PERCENT FOR FOUR MONTHS OR SIX
MONTHS, HOWEVER LONG IT'S
GOING TO BE.
I KNOW THAT TEENAGERS ARE
GETTING THESE SOLICITATIONS
NOW.
IS THERE SOME RESPONSIBILITY
ON THE PART OF BANKS TO SAY,
YOU KNOW, WE'RE PUSHING THE
ENVELOPE?
>> WELL, I THINK THE
RESPONSIBILITY IS IN THE HANDS
OF THE CONSUMER, TAKING
INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY.
I MEAN JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A
CAR DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE A
WRECK; JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE
LIQUOR IN YOUR CABINET DOESN'T
MEAN THAT YOU ABUSE IT, AND
LIKEWISE, JUST BECAUSE YOU
HAVE A CREDIT CARD IN YOUR
WALLET, THERE'S NO REASON WHY
YOU SHOULD GO OVERBOARD.
I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT
IN BALANCE CONSUMER CREDIT HAS
GONE UP IN THE LAST TEN YEARS
BY THREE TIMES, SINCE 1991,
BUT OTHER ELEMENTS OF CONSUMER
DEBT LIKE MORTGAGE FINANCING
AND SO FORTH HAVE GONE UP IN A
LIKE AMOUNT.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP COMING
BACK TO THE NOTION OF WHAT'S
THE APPROPRIATE BALANCE, NOT
NECESSARILY THAT CERTAIN
ELEMENTS OF OUR SOCIETY ABUSE
CERTAIN ELEMENTS THAT ARE IN
THEIR HANDS.
>> Gary Walker: KATHY, YOU
WANTED TO GET IN HERE?
>> AS YOU SAID, JUST BECAUSE
-- I SEE IT AT THE HOLIDAYS
PARTICULARLY.
I'M REALLY INVOLVED IN
PEOPLE'S FINANCIAL BEHAVIOR,
AND AS AN ADVISOR, PART OF MY
ROLE IS TO HELP THEM CHANGE
THEIR FINANCIAL BEHAVIOR TO
MORE POSITIVE, MORE
RESPONSIBLE, MORE
FORWARD-LOOKING.
AT THE HOLIDAYS, IT AMUSES ME.
IT'S VERY SIMILAR -- THEIR
FINANCIAL BEHAVIOR IS VERY
SIMILAR TO THEIR FOOD
BEHAVIORS.
AND JUST BECAUSE EVERYBODY
OFFERS YOU COOKIES DOESN'T
MEAN YOU HAVE TO EAT THEM.
PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO CAPTURE
THE FEELING OF JOY AND DELIGHT
IN THE HOLIDAYS AND "I'LL
THINK ABOUT IT TOMORROW."
IT'S THE SCARLETT O'HARA
APPROACH TO FINANCE AND WEIGHT
CONTROL.
"OH, I WILL HAVE THAT FUDGE
BECAUSE YOU MADE A SPECIAL
EFFORT TO MAKE IT AND BRING IT
IN.
AND I'LL THINK ABOUT IT
TOMORROW.
AND I'LL BUY THIS LITTLE EXTRA
GIFT BECAUSE IT MAKES ME FEEL
MORE JOYFUL IN THE SPIRIT AND
I THINK THAT IT WILL DELIGHT
YOU, AND I'LL THINK ABOUT IT
TOMORROW."
>> Ellen: GARY RAISED THE
ISSUE OF TEENAGERS.
THIS IS AN AREA I'M INTERESTED
IN.
I HAVE TWO TEENAGED CHILDREN
AND THEY'RE ALREADY GETTING
CREDIT CARD SOLICITATIONS.
AND WE'VE WRITTEN QUITE A BIT
ABOUT THIS IN THE NEWSPAPER,
PARTICULARLY INTERESTED IN
CREDIT CARD DEBT FOR COLLEGE
STUDENTS.
THERE WAS A RECENT FEDERAL
RESERVE REPORT, SOMETHING LIKE
77% OF UNDERGRADUATES HAVE
CREDIT CARDS, BUT ONLY 34% OF
THEM ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THE
CONCEPT OF CREDIT AND HOW YOU
GO ABOUT PAYING IT OFF, AND
THEY ARE CARRYING AN AVERAGE
BALANCE OF SOMETHING LIKE
$2,200.
SO WHAT KIND OF ADVICE WOULD
YOU GIVE THEM KNOWING THAT
THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO GRADUATE
PROBABLY WITH LOANS AND OTHER
THINGS?
WHAT DO YOU TELL PARENTS?
WHAT DO YOU TELL STUDENTS?
IS THIS A GOOD THING FOR KIDS
TO HAVE CREDIT CARDS?
>> THE KEY IS WHAT DO YOU TELL
PARENTS?
IT'S KIND OF LIKE SEX
EDUCATION.
MONEY EDUCATION IS A TOPIC
THAT NEEDS TO BE NURTURED AND
PHILOSOPHIES NEED TO BE
NURTURED IN THE HOMES.
I HAVE DONE A COMMUNITY
PROGRAM CALLED KIDS AND CASH.
REALLY THE CONCEPTS ARE AT AGE
THREE WHEN THEY CAN START TO
COUNT.
EARLIER THAN THAT, THEY'RE
DEALING WITH LANGUAGE.
BUT THEY START GETTING A FEEL.
WE GET THIS PHILOSOPHY OF
MONEY AT A VERY, VERY EARLY
AGE.
BY THE TIME THEY GET TO BE A
TEENAGER, THEY ALREADY HAVE
THEIR OWN VALUE SYSTEM, --
>> Gary Walker: RIGHT.
>> -- THEIR OWN ASSUMPTIONS
ABOUT HOW IT WORKS.
AFTER THAT, CASUAL COMMENTS BY
PROFESSIONALS, OCCASIONAL
ATTENTION TO THIS DOESN'T HAVE
AS BIG AN IMPACT.
WHAT YOU SEE, HOWEVER, IS THAT
THE ADULTS DON'T KNOW HOW TO
DO THIS EITHER.
THEREFORE, THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO
PASS ALONG WELL-FOUNDED
CONCEPTS.
>> Gary Walker: THAT'S A GOOD
POINT.
I WAS GOING TO TURN TO
Mr. HAMLIN AND SAY WHEN
SOMEONE COMES TO THE BANK FOR
A LOAN OR MORTGAGE AND THEY
HAVE HIGH CREDIT CARD DEBT,
WHAT DO YOU TELL THEM?
>> IT IS A MATTER OF
EDUCATION.
AND I WOULD POINT OUT THAT
EVEN OUR COLLEGE STUDENTS,
SOME OF WHOM ARE THERE BECAUSE
THEY'RE PRETTY SMART, RIGHT?
I MEAN, THEY GOT THERE BECAUSE
THEY'RE SMART, AND CREDIT
CARDS AND MANAGING YOUR BANK
ACCOUNT IS NOT ALL THAT
DIFFICULT.
IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
SO YOU'RE RIGHT; IT'S ABOUT
VALUES.
WE MAINTAIN, FOR EXAMPLE, A
CREDIT CARD PRODUCT FOR A
STUDENT, GUARANTEED BY THE
PARENT, OF COURSE, JUST FOR
THAT REASON.
IT'S ABOUT EDUCATION AND
KNOWING HOW TO USE CREDIT
APPROPRIATELY.
INITIALLY YOU DON'T CHARGE
THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T PAY FOR
BY THE END OF THE MONTH.
IT'S A MATTER OF CONVENIENCE.
>> Gary Walker: FOR THE MOST
PART, THE INDUSTRY WILL JUST
SEND OUT THESE SOLICITATIONS,
AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A
LOT OF SELF-CONTROL ARE GOING
TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM.
AND I GUESS YOU WERE TALKING
ABOUT THE HIGH INTEREST RATES
HAVE TO DO WITH HOW MANY
PEOPLE DEFAULT.
SO IN A SENSE THE PEOPLE WHO
PAY THEIR BILLS ON TIME ARE
PAYING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO
DON'T.
>> RIGHT.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT
THAT THE INDUSTRY IS VERY
SEPARATED INTO THE COMMERCIAL
BANKING INDUSTRY, WHICH IS ONE
SEGMENT, BUT THE LARGEST
CREDIT CARD ISSUER IS A
NON-BANK, FORD MOTOR CREDIT.
SO THE INDUSTRY, AS YOU SAY,
HAS MANY DIFFERENT FACTORS AND
MANY DIFFERENT STYLES AND
PRACTICES.
>> Gary Walker: WE ONLY HAVE
TIME FOR A QUICK EXIT
QUESTION.
IS CREDIT CARD PROBLEMS GOING
TO AFFECT YOUR LONG-TERM
CREDIT STANDING?
>> I THINK THAT'S A YES AND NO
QUESTION.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ESTABLISH
CREDIT USING A CREDIT CARD,
USING SMALL AMOUNTS SO THEY
CAN ULTIMATELY GET THE CAR
LOAN OR THEY CAN ULTIMATELY
BUILD A HISTORY TO GET THAT
MORTGAGE.
ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU CAN
ABUSE THAT AND IT CAN GO IN
REVERSE JUST AS WELL.
SO IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY, BUT
ALONG WITH THE OPPORTUNITY
COMES THE RISK.
>> Gary Walker: KATHY, DO YOU
WANT TO COMMENT ON THAT?
>> CREDIT IS A TOOL.
WE JUST HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO
USE IT EFFECTIVELY.
>> Gary Walker: UNFORTUNATELY,
THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE
FOR THIS DISCUSSION.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ON WHAT
YOU CAN DO TO MANAGE OR AVOID
CREDIT CARD TROUBLES, PLEASE
LOG ON TO OUR WEB SITE AT
wxxi.org/ntk.
MORE ON CONSUMER SPENDING NEXT
IN THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF THE
BUSINESS SECTION WITH "THE
DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
>> Gary Walker: JOINING US NOW
IN STUDIO IS ELLEN ROSEN, THE
BUSINESS EDITOR FOR "THE
DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
ELLEN, YOU JUST SAT THERE AND
LISTENED TO A BANK PRESIDENT
AND A FINANCIAL PLANNER.
WHAT DID YOU COME AWAY WITH
FROM THAT CONVERSATION?
WHAT STRUCK YOU ABOUT IT?
>> Ellen Rosen: CREDIT IS
HERE TO STAY.
>> Gary Walker: PARTICULARLY
THE IDEA OF CASH, YOU KNOW, IS
DWINDLING, PEOPLE USING
TRANSACTIONS WITH CASH.
>> Ellen Rosen: IT SEEMS TO
BE.
THERE WAS A RECENT FEDERAL
RESERVE REPORT THAT THEY
LOOKED AT WHAT THEY CALL
ELECTRONIC TRANSACTIONS FROM
1979, AND THERE'S SOMETHING
LIKE A 500% INCREASE.
NOW, YOU CAN SAY A CERTAIN
AMOUNT OF THAT IS THE FACT
THAT DEBIT CARDS AND THINGS
LIKE THAT DIDN'T EXIST, BUT
ABOUT HALF OF THAT REALLY GOES
TO CREDIT CARDS.
IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE -- WHAT
WAS IT?
15 BILLION CREDIT CARD
TRANSACTIONS, $1.23 TRILLION
DOLLARS A YEAR.
I MEAN THAT'S ENORMOUS.
>> Gary Walker: YOU MENTIONED
DEBIT CARDS.
WE DIDN'T TALK MUCH ABOUT
DEBIT CARDS IN THE DISCUSSION,
BUT FROM WHAT YOU'RE TELLING
ME, THOSE ARE REALLY
INCREASING IN POPULARITY.
THE DEBIT CARD BEING ALMOST
THE SAME THING AS A CHECK,
IT'S A DIRECT CHARGE.
>> Ellen Rosen: RIGHT.
THEY HAVE BEEN GROWING IN
POPULARITY.
PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO RACK UP
THAT DEBT BUT DON'T
NECESSARILY WANT TO CARRY
CASH, EITHER.
YOU CAN CARRY A DEBIT CARD.
AT FIRST PEOPLE WERE LEERY OF
THEM BECAUSE IT IS A LOT LIKE
HAVING CASH.
YOU HAND IT OVER AND THE MONEY
COMES RIGHT OUT OF YOUR
CHECKING ACCOUNT.
BUT THERE ARE SAFEGUARDS BUILT
IN AT THE BANK TO PROTECT YOU.
>> Gary Walker: YOU BROUGHT UP
TEENAGERS, AND TEENAGERS ARE
BEING SOLICITED ALL THE TIME.
YOU ALSO MENTIONED, AND I'M
GOING TO ASK YOU A QUESTION AS
A MOM.
YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF
TEENAGERS.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH CREDIT
CARDS WITH THEM?
>> Ellen Rosen: IT'S VERY
HARD.
I MEAN SHE WAS RIGHT ON THAT,
THAT YOU HAVE TO REALLY START
TEACHING MONEY MANAGEMENT
AS PART OF A WHOLE MONEY
MANAGEMENT SCHEME THAT YOU
NEED TO START TEACHING EARLY
ON.
BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT A LOT
OF ADULTS ARE STILL LEARNING,
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE
WORK WITH WITH MY OWN KIDS.
IT STARTS WITH ALLOWANCES -- A
LOT OF EXPERTS WILL TELL YOU
IT STARTS WITH ALLOWANCES AND
HOW THEY MANAGE THEIR
ALLOWANCES AND ACTUALLY HAVING
KIDS RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING
FOR SOMETHING.
THAT'S REALLY THE WAY THAT
EXPERTS TELL YOU KIDS LEARN
HOW TO MANAGE MONEY.
>> Gary Walker: PERSONAL
RESPONSIBILITY BEING KEY ABOUT
THAT.
BUT THAT'S GOT TO COME FROM
PARENTS, RIGHT?
>> Ellen Rosen: YES, IT DOES.
THE TENDENCY IS TO PAY FOR
EVERYTHING FOR THEM AND TO TRY
TO PROTECT THEM FROM THAT, BUT
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO LEARN TO
USE THOSE SKILLS UNLESS
THEY'RE ACTUALLY USING THEM
THEMSELVES.
>> Gary Walker: WHAT ELSE WE
DIDN'T TALK ABOUT,
PARTICULARLY WITH YOUNG
PEOPLE, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A
CREDIT CARD, YOU ARE KIND OF
BEYOND THE EIGHT-BALL IN THIS
ECONOMY BECAUSE YOU NEED THAT
FOR CERTAIN THINGS,
SAY FOR INSTANCE RENTING A
CAR.
>> Ellen Rosen: SURE.
I MEAN WITH KIDS GOING OFF TO
COLLEGE, YOU WANT THEM TO HAVE
A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF SOMETHING.
IF THEY NEED AN EMERGENCY
PLANE TICKET HOME OR IF
SOMETHING COMES UP THAT THEY
NEED THE MONEY FOR,
YOU WANT THEM TO HAVE THAT.
BUT AGAIN, IT COMES DOWN TO
HAVING TAUGHT APPROPRIATE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT.
>> Gary Walker: I DID ASK, AND
I'M STILL KIND OF HAZY ON IT,
TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH,
BUT IF PEOPLE HAVE -- FOR
INSTANCE, THE GOVERNMENT HAS A
HIGH DEBT LEVEL AND SOME
COMPANIES CARRY A HIGH DEBT
LEVEL.
IF EVERYBODY INDIVIDUALLY HAS
A HIGHER DEBT LEVEL, CREDIT
CARD DEBT LEVEL, IS THAT
NECESSARILY SO BAD FOR OUR
ECONOMY?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, I DON'T
REALLY HAVE A COMPLETE ANSWER
FOR THAT.
LOGICALLY, IT WOULD TELL YOU
IT'S NOT GOOD.
THE MONEY HAS TO BE PAID AT
SOME POINT, AND DEBT AGAIN IS
A NECESSARY PART OF THE
ECONOMY AS TRANSACTIONS GO
BACK AND FORTH AND MONEY FLOWS
BACK AND FORTH.
BUT WHEN IT GETS TO THE LEVEL
YOU'RE NOT SURE YOU'RE GOING
TO BE ABLE TO PAY IT OFF, THEN
YOU HAVE DIFFICULTY GETTING
CREDIT.
NO ONE WANTS TO GIVE YOU
CREDIT.
EVERYONE IN THE END, WHETHER
IT'S A BANK OR A MERCHANT OR A
COLLEGE OR WHATEVER, WANTS TO
BE ASSURED THEY'RE GOING TO
GET THEIR MONEY BACK.
>> Gary Walker: I WAS REALLY
STRUCK BY THE IDEA THAT IF YOU
HAVE A $5,600 AVERAGE DEBT
THAT YOU CARRY A MONTHLY
BALANCE AND YOU PAY THE
MINIMUM AMOUNT, IT WOULD TAKE
27 YEARS TO PAY IT OFF.
NOT GOOD.
(Chuckling)
NOT GOOD AT ALL.
>> Ellen Rosen: COMPOUNDING
IS A THEORY THAT A LOT OF
PEOPLE DON'T REALLY
UNDERSTAND.
WE WORK A LOT WITH THAT IN THE
PERSONAL FINANCE STORIES WE
RUN.
EVERY SUNDAY, WE HAVE A PAGE
INSIDE OUR BUSINESS SECTION
THAT TALKS ABOUT PERSONAL
FINANCE AND IT'S SOMETHING WE
WORK ON A LOT.
IT'S A THEORY THAT APPLIES TO
SAVINGS AS WELL AS TO DEBT.
IT'S THE SAME THING IF YOU PUT
THAT $25 A YEAR AWAY, IT ADDS
UP.
BUT IT'S THE SAME THING WITH
YOUR DEBT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU
TAKE AWHILE TO PAY IT OFF.
>> Gary Walker: I'M USED TO
HAVING -- IF YOU READ THE
PAPER, THE BUSINESS SECTION,
I'M READING ABOUT KODAK, WALL
STREET, XEROX... IS PERSONAL
FINANCE BECOMING A BIGGER AREA
FOR REPORTING?
>> Ellen Rosen: ACTUALLY, WE
FIND PERSONAL FINANCES A HUGE
AREA THAT READERS WANT TO KNOW
MORE ABOUT.
WE CAN'T SEEM TO TELL READERS
QUITE ENOUGH ABOUT IT.
SO WE IN THE COMING YEAR WILL
BE INCREASING OUR PERSONAL
FINANCE COVERAGE.
ACTUALLY, WE HAVE A SPECIAL
SECTION COMING OUT IN ABOUT A
MONTH.
>> Gary Walker: OKAY.
WE'LL LOOK FOR THAT, THE
BUSINESS SECTION OF "THE
DEMOCRAT
AND CHRONICLE."
ELLEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> Ellen Rosen: THANK YOU,
GARY.
>> Gary Walker: NOW, FOR MORE
INFORMATION ON THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW" OR
TO DISCUSS ANY OF THESE
TOPICS, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO.
YOU LOG ON TO OUR WEB SITE AT
wxxi.org/ntk.
THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE
FOR THIS WEEK'S PROGRAM.
TUNE IN NEXT WEEK AS WE BRING
YOU A YEAR IN REVIEW OF THE
PEOPLE AND THE STORIES FROM
"NEED TO KNOW" IN THE YEAR
2001.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND
HAVE A HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON.
(Music)