>>
Gary Walker: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW," THE GINNA NUCLEAR
POWER PLANT HAS BEEN PROVIDING OUR AREA WITH ELECTRICITY FOR
MORE THAN 30 YEARS. NOW RG&E MUST DECIDE WHETHER TO RENEW ITS
LICENSE IN 2009. AND THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS NOW WRESTLING
WITH DEREGULATION AND ENERGY POLICY. WHAT WILL THIS DECISION
MEAN FOR ROCHESTER'S ENERGY SUPPLY? WE'LL TELL YOU IN PART TWO
OF OUR SPECIAL, COLLABORATIVE INVESTIGATION WITH WOKRTV'S NewsSource
13. IT'S ALL COMING UP NEXT ON "NEED TO KNOW."
>>
THERE ARE SOME THINGS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO DURING THOSE
15 OR 20 YEARS, AND THAT IS DECIDE ON AN ENERGY POLICY IN OUR
STATE AND IN OUR COUNTRY.
>>
THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH NEWS
PROGRAM. "NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS, EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.
>>
"NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS JONES FOUNDATION,
BY DORSCHEL LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>>
Gary Walker: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M GARY WALKER. SO IF
SUMMER HEATS UP AND AIR-CONDITIONERS GO FULL BLAST, WILL WE
HAVE ENOUGH POWER IN NEW YORK STATE AND IN ROCHESTER? STATE
AND UTILITY OFFICIALS SAY YES. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S
NOTHING HAPPENING WITH OUR ENERGY SUPPLY. AS YOU WATCH THIS,
STATE LAWMAKERS AND REGULATORS ARE FORMING ENERGY POLICIES THAT
WILL AFFECT HOW MUCH WE PAY FOR POWER AND WHERE WE GET OUR POWER
FROM. AND THAT POLICY WILL AFFECT RG&E. RG&E LARGELY MAKES ITS
OWN POWER TO SELL TO US HERE IN ROCHESTER. ROCHESTER GAS AND
ELECTRIC REPORTS THAT 50% OF OUR ENERGY SUPPLY COMES FROM THE
GINNA NUCLEAR POWER PLANT, 25% FROM THE RUSSELL COAL STATION.
BOTH POWER STATIONS ARE OWNED AND OPERATED BY RG&E. THE REMAINING
25% COMES FROM LONG-TERM CONTRACTS WITH HYDROELECTRIC AND GAS
COMPANIES. RG&E SAYS THEY CURRENTLY PRODUCE ENOUGH ENERGY TO
MAINTAIN A SAFE MARGIN OF SUPPLY FOR THE DEMAND IN OUR AREA.
THE GINNA NUCLEAR POWER PLANT AND RUSSELL COAL STATION HAVE
BEEN PROVIDING ELECTRIC POWER TO OUR AREA FOR DECADES. BUT JUST
HOW MUCH DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THEM? "NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS
GIVES US THE ANSWERS TO LOCAL ENERGY TRIVIA QUESTIONS.
>>
Matt Cummings: THE RUSSELL COAL STATION IS LOCATED ON THE SHORES
OF LAKE ONTARIO IN THE TOWN OF GREECE NEAR CHILI BEACH. IT OPENED
FOR SERVICE IN 1948. AT ANY ONE TIME, RUSSELL CAN PRODUCE UP
TO 257,000 KILOWATTS OF ELECTRICITY, OR ABOUT ONE-QUARTER OF
OUR COMMUNITY'S ELECTRIC NEEDS. THE GINNA NUCLEAR POWER PLANT
IS LOCATED ABOUT 20 MILES FROM DOWNTOWN ROCHESTER IN THE TOWN
OF ONTARIO. IT OPENED FOR SERVICE IN 1970 AND CAN PRODUCE UP
TO 500,000 KILOWATTS OF ENERGY AT ANY TIME OF THE DAY, OR HALF
OF THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ELECTRIC NEEDS. THE FACILITY'S OPERATING
LICENSE IS UP FOR RENEWAL IN 2009. BOTH RUSSELL AND GINNA PROVIDE
POWER TO RG&E'S SERVICE AREA THAT SPANS 2,700 SQUARE MILES OVER
9 COUNTIES, FROM LAKE ONTARIO TO THE PENNSYLVANIA BORDER.
>>
Gary Walker: THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY SAYS BY THE YEAR
2010, AMERICA WILL NEED 20% MORE ELECTRICITY THAN WE HAVE NOW.
IN NEW YORK STATE, ENERGY SERVICE COMPANIES SAY WE WILL NEED
TO PRODUCE THE EQUIVALENT OF 19 NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS IN THE
NEXT 5 YEARS TO MEET INCREASED DEMAND. NewsSource 13's JANE
FLASCH TAKES US INSIDE THE GINNA NUCLEAR POWER PLANT TO FIND
OUT HOW IT'S BEEN PROVIDING US WITH ENERGY FOR MORE THAN 30
YEARS AND IF IT WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO IN THE FUTURE.
>>
A METAL FACADE PAINTED GREEN WORKS TO BLEND IN WITH THE RURAL
WAYNE COUNTY COUNTRYSIDE. IT COVERS THE REACTOR VESSEL WHERE
RADIOACTIVE URANIUM ATOMS ARE SPLIT, GENERATING ENOUGH HEAT
TO WARM WATER TO 590 DEGREES, CREATING STEAM. THE NUCLEAR REACTION
IS CONTROLLED AND MONITORED FROM THIS ROOM, A PLACE WHERE CAMERAS
RARELY GET A GLIMPSE. WHILE RG&E IS LICENSED TO OWN GINNA, PEOPLE
LIKE FRANK ARE INDIVIDUALLY LICENSED TO KEEP IT RUNNING SAFELY.
>>
WE ARE TRAINED MORE THAN YOUR DOCTOR. WE'RE EXAMINED MORE THAN
AIRLINE PILOTS. AND WE TAKE THIS ROLE OF OURS IN SOCIETY AS
A VERY SERIOUS PART OF OUR BUSINESS.
>>
HUGE TURBINES TURN STEAM FROM THE HEATED WATER INTO ELECTRICITY.
GINNA GENERATES HALF OF ROCHESTER'S ELECTRICITY. OVER THE YEARS,
IT HAS ALSO GENERATED CONTROVERSY. (Crowd shouting)
>> A RUPTURED TUBE IN A STEAM GENERATOR BACK IN 1982 IGNITED
CONCERNS ABOUT THE SAFETY OF GINNA. IN THE 32 YEARS SINCE THE
PLANT WENT ON-LINE, THE NATION HAS GONE FROM HAVING GENERAL
SUPPORT FOR NUCLEAR POWER TO GENERAL OPPOSITION. YET FUELED
BY THE CALIFORNIA BLACKOUTS AND THE REALITY OF THE CONSTRAINTS
ON POWER SUPPLIES, THAT IS CHANGING.
>>
THE ELECTRICITY MARKETPLACE IN THE COUNTRY HAS CHANGED RADICALLY
IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, AND IT'S BEEN REALIZED FINALLY
THAT NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS PRODUCE ELECTRICITY AT A VERY LOW
COST, AND IN ORDER TO PROTECT CONSUMERS, WHAT YOU WANT IS LOW-COST
ELECTRICITY COMING OUT OF POWER PLANTS, WHATEVER THEIR SOURCE.
>>
GINNA'S LICENSE HAS BEEN EXTENDED ONCE. AND WHEN THAT EXTENSION
EXPIRES EIGHT YEARS FROM NOW, THE PLANT WILL BE 40 YEARS OLD.
YET PROBLEMS WITH THE NATION'S POWER SUPPLY HAS MANY RETHINKING
HOW OLD IS TOO OLD WHEN IT COMES TO THESE FACILITIES?
>>
THE KEY COMPONENTS -- THE STEAM GENERATORS, THE REACTOR VESSEL
-- ARE IN EXCELLENT CONDITION. WHAT WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST
COUPLE OF WEEKS IS TAKE OUR PLACE IN LINE WITH THE N.R.C. BECAUSE
IT LOOKS MORE AND MORE ATTRACTIVE FOR SOMEONE, MAYBE US, IN
THIS MARKET TO RE-LICENSE IT.
>>
UNDER DEREGULATION, NEW YORK WILL EVENTUALLY FORCE RG&E TO GIVE
UP OWNERSHIP OF ITS NUCLEAR AND COAL-FIRED PLANTS. NO ONE IS
SURE HOW THAT WILL AFFECT THE SUPPLY OF ELECTRICITY WE NOW TAKE
FOR GRANTED. JANE FLASCH, NewsSource 13.
>>
Gary: DEREGULATION: UGLY WORDS FOR CALIFORNIANS, WHO ARE NOW
SUFFERING ROLLING BLACKOUTS AND POWER OUTAGES. HERE IN NEW YORK,
WE'RE DEREGULATING AS WELL. THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION BEGAN
DEREGULATING NEW YORK'S ENERGY INDUSTRY IN 1998. THE P.S.C.
REGULATES ELECTRIC AND GAS UTILITIES IN NEW YORK AND SEES DEREGULATION
AS A MEANS OF CREATING A COMPETITIVE MARKETPLACE THAT WOULD
KEEP PRICES STABLE AND PROVIDE CONSUMERS WITH A CHOICE OF ENERGY
SUPPLIERS. "NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS TELLS US WHAT DEREGULATION
WILL MEAN FOR YOU.
>>
WHAT DEREGULATION MEANS FOR RG&E AND ITS CUSTOMERS IS A NEW
WAY OF ACQUIRING ELECTRIC ENERGY.
>>
Matt Cummings: DEREGULATION, SIMPLY PUT, IS THE BREAKUP OF THE
MONOPOLY UTILITY COMPANIES HAVE HAD ON THE ENERGY MARKET.
>>
GOING FROM HERE, THE OLD REGULATED MONOPOLY WHERE THE UTILITY
DID EVERYTHING TO OVER HERE WHERE PEOPLE HAVE CHOICES. PEOPLE
HAVE CHOICE IN EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THEIR LIVES. THEY HAVE
VERY LITTLE CHOICE IN THEIR ELECTRIC SUPPLIER. SOME, BUT NOT
VERY MUCH.
>>
Matt Cummings: TRADITIONALLY, YOUR LOCAL UTILITY COMPANY HANDLED
ALL OF YOUR ENERGY NEEDS, FROM PRODUCTION OF ELECTRICITY AND
GAS TO DISTRIBUTING IT TO ITS CUSTOMERS AND PROVIDING SERVICE
AND MAINTENANCE. NOW, DEREGULATION WILL BRING INDEPENDENT COMPETITORS
TO THE MARKETPLACE, ALLOWING CONSUMERS TO SHOP AROUND FOR THE
BEST DEALS.
>>
THOSE ARE THE SO-CALLED ENERGY SERVICE COMPANIES THAT AT THE
END OF THIS JOURNEY THAT YOU'LL SIGN UP WITH FOR A CUSTOMER
AND GET YOUR BILL FROM. THEY'LL ARRANGE TO ACQUIRE THE ENERGY;
THEY'LL ARRANGE WITH RG&E TO DELIVER THE ENERGY. THEY MAY ARRANGE
A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER SERVICES THAT YOU MIGHT LIKE TO BUY FROM
THEM.
>>
Matt Cummings: ENERGY SERVICE COMPANIES, OR ESCOS, WILL USE
RG&E AS A DISTRIBUTOR OF THEIR POWER AND PAY RG&E A FEE TO DO
SO. AS A BENEFIT FOR PROVIDING THIS SERVICE, RG&E WAS ALLOWED
TO SET UP A LOCAL ESCO OF THEIR OWN, ENERGETIX. AS AN INDEPENDENT
PROVIDER, ENERGETIX DOES NOT HAVE MANY OF THE REGULATIONS RG&E
MUST FOLLOW, WHICH WILL ALLOW RG&E TO EXPAND INTO AREAS THEY
COULDN'T BEFORE, SUCH AS BUYING OIL COMPANIES. INDUSTRY ANALYSTS
SAY IT WILL BE ANOTHER TEN YEARS OR SO BEFORE ROCHESTER SEES
A COMPETITIVE MARKETPLACE, A TRANSITION SIMILAR TO THE DEREGULATION
OF THE LONG DISTANCE TELEPHONE INDUSTRY OF THE MID-1980s.
>>
PEOPLE ARE GETTING A LOT MORE THINGS OVER THAT TELEPHONE LINE
THAN THEY EVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE, AND SERVICE IS GOOD AND LONG
DISTANCE RATES HAVE DROPPED. WE SEE THAT KIND OF EVOLUTION HAPPENING
IN THE ELECTRIC POWER INDUSTRY.
>>
Matt Cummings: POWER SAYS, JUST LIKE COMPARING AT&T WITH SPRINT
OR MCI, CONSUMERS WILL HAVE TO COMPARISON-SHOP FOR THEIR POWER.
>>
SO THEY'RE LISTED ON THE WEB SITE, BUT IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE
RATES, THE TERMS OF THEIR CONTRACT, THAT SORT OF THING, YOU
NEED TO CALL THOSE COMPANIES, TALK TO THOSE COMPANIES, AND FIND
OUT WHAT THEIR TERMS ARE, WHAT THEIR PRICES ARE, JUST AS YOU
WOULD IF YOU WERE BUYING ANYTHING ELSE.
>> Gary Walker: RG&E REPORTS ONE-THIRD OF THEIR REVENUE NOW
COMES FROM ENERGETIX. PROFITS FROM BOTH RG&E AND ENERGETIX GO
TO THE PARENT COMPANY, R.G.S. NOW JOINING ME IN STUDIO TO DISCUSS
OUR ENERGY SUPPLY ARE MIKE POWER, SPOKESMAN FOR ROCHESTER GAS
AND ELECTRIC, AND DEMOCRATIC ASSEMBLYMAN PAUL TONKO. HE'S THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE ASSEMBLY'S ENERGY COMMITTEE. HE DROVE ALL THE
WAY FROM ALBANY TO BE WITH US. WE ALSO SAT DOWN WITH REPUBLICAN
SENATOR GEORGE MAZIARZ YESTERDAY. HE'S A REPUBLICAN SENATOR
FROM OUR AREA WHO SITS ON THE SENATE'S ENERGY COMMITTEE. WE'LL
GIVE YOU HIS THOUGHTS IN JUST A MOMENT. GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU
BOTH FOR JOINING ME. MIKE, I WANT TO BEGIN WITH YOU. WE JUST
HEARD IN MATT'S STORY THAT YOU GO ON-LINE, YOU GO ON THE WEB
PAGE, AND YOU FIND THE ESCOS. BUT RIGHT NOW THERE'S ONLY ONE
TO CHOOSE FROM. THEN WHAT HAPPENS?
>> WELL, THERE ARE ACTUALLY MORE, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM TO CHOOSE
TO SERVE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS. THAT LIST HAS BEEN LONGER AND
IT HAS BEEN SHORTER AS THIS EVOLUTION HAS OCCURRED OF DEREGULATION.
RIGHT NOW ON THE ELECTRIC SIDE, I THINK THERE ARE ONLY A HANDFUL
OF PROVIDERS. ON THE GAS SIDE, THERE ARE MANY MORE PROVIDERS,
BUT THE GAS SIDE HAS BEEN DEREGULATED FOR MANY MORE YEARS. I
THINK THIS IS WHAT WE CAN EXPECT AS THIS PROCESS OF GROWING
THIS MARKET EVOLVES, IS THAT THESE BUSINESSES WILL COME AND
GO. SOME WILL DECIDE IT'S WORTH IT TO THEM TO BE IN THIS BUSINESS,
AND SOME WILL DECIDE IT'S NOT WORTH IT. AND THEY'LL FIND THAT
OUT.
>>
Gary Walker: JUST A QUICK CONSUMER NOTE: IF YOU WANTED TO EXERCISE
THAT OPTION, WHAT DO YOU DO? DO YOU CALL ENERGETIX? IS THERE
A NUMBER THERE PROVIDED?
>>
WELL, THERE IS, ENERGETIX AS WELL AS OTHER COMPANIES.
>>
Gary Walker: CORRECT.
>>
THERE ARE OTHER COMPANIES. AND CERTAINLY, IF YOU WANT TO BECOME
A CUSTOMER OF ONE OF THOSE COMPANIES, JUST LIKE ANYTHING ELSE,
YOU GIVE THEM A CALL AND SAY, "HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE? WHAT
ARE YOUR CUSTOMER GUARANTEES? I MIGHT WANT TO BE A CUSTOMER
OF YOURS." THEN TAKE IT FROM THERE.
>>
Gary Walker: AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, AS OF TODAY, THOUGH, THE
ENERGY COOPERATIVE OF NEW YORK, WHICH IS BUFFALO-BASED, AND
SELECT ENERGY OF CONNECTICUT ARE BOTH LISTED, BUT THEY ARE CURRENTLY
NOT SERVING THIS AREA, SO IT IS KIND OF A LIMITED CHOICE, WHICH
BRINGS US TO ASSEMBLYMAN TONKO. ONE OF THE THINGS AND, MIKE,
I'M GOING TO LEAVE YOU OUT OF THE PARTISAN DEBATE HERE BECAUSE
YOU'RE BEING REGULATED BY THESE GENTLEMEN AND I DON'T WANT TO
GET YOU IN TROUBLE WITH YOUR BOSS, BUT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN
CRITICAL OF DEREGULATION BECAUSE THERE IS LITTLE CHOICE FOR
CONSUMERS WHO COME ON AND SAY, "OKAY, I'M GOING TO CHOOSE AN
ALTERNATE POWER SOURCE" BUT THEN ONLY HAVE A CHOICE OF ONE OR
TWO.
>>
WELL, GARY, WHAT WE HAVE IN NEW YORK IS A VERY UNIQUE PROGRAM
OF DEREGULATION. IT WAS DONE BY THE GOVERNOR AND THE PUBLIC
SERVICE COMMISSION, THE REGULATOR THAT HAS MONITORED THE BUSINESS
OF THE ELECTRIC UTILITIES FOR A CENTURY. AND SO WE BROUGHT THAT
REGULATOR WATCH DOG IN TO SAY THEY WILL GOVERN HOW WE NOW REALIZE
DEREGULATION AS AN EXERCISE IN THIS STATE. AND IT'S FAILED AND
FAILED MISERABLY. SIMPLY STATED, THE CHOICE THAT YOU JUST ELUDED
TO IS NOT THERE. AND SO THEY DID NOT DEVELOP THE CLIMATE FOR
CHANGE, THE ENVIRONMENT FOR MARKETERS TO COME TO NEW YORK AND
OFFER THE CHOICE THAT WILL SHARPEN THE PENCIL AND PRODUCE THE
BOTTOM LINE SAVINGS FOR THE CONSUMER. IT'S SIMPLE AND BASIC.
AND WE ALSO FORECASTED -- NOT JUST THE ASSEMBLY, BUT THE PROFESSIONALS
OUT THERE, THOSE IN THE ARENA SAID, "WATCH SOME OF THE REGIONS
OF NEW YORK. THE TRANSMISSION'S CONSTRAINED AND YOU NEED TO
HAVE CHOICE WITHIN THEIR BOUNDARIES." AND THAT WASN'T DONE.
SO YOU HAVE METRO AREAS LIKE NEW YORK THAT REQUIRE 80% OF THEIR
CAPACITY TO BE ADDRESSED INTERNALLY, AND THAT WAS NOT ADDRESSED.
SO WE SAID, "MOVE INCREMENTALLY. MAKE CERTAIN THAT CHOICE IS
THERE AND THAT THE LOAD POCKETS, THE HARD-TO-SERVE AREAS, ARE
ADDRESSED OR YOU'LL HAVE DISMAL FAILURE." I THINK WE'RE AT THAT
JUNCTURE.
>>
Gary Walker: WOULDN'T IT BE A FAIR ARGUMENT TO SAY THAT BEFORE
THEY DEREGULATED THE PHONE INDUSTRY, THERE WEREN'T ANY LONG
DISTANCE CARRIERS OTHER THAN AT&T OR BELL, BUT NOW WE HAVE SPRINT,
MCI AND 10-10s AD NAUSEAM THAT SPRUNG UP BECAUSE OF IT? SO ISN'T
IT A CHICKEN-AND-EGG THING? YOU'VE GOT TO DEREGULATE BEFORE
THEY COME ON?
>> WELL, YOU'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT A SITUATION WHERE TO PUT
ON-LINE SOME OF THE CHOICE TO RESPOND TO SOME OF THE SUPPLY
ISSUES OUT THERE, YOU NEED TO HAVE A LONG-TERM WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY.
THERE ARE THOSE NOW FORECASTING THAT FOR THE NEXT THREE TO FIVE
TO EIGHT YEARS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT, ROCKY
ROAD FOR CONSUMERS, AND WE'VE HAD JUST TWO PLANTS APPROVED IN
THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS WHEN IN FACT WELL BEFORE THAT PEOPLE
WERE FORECASTING THERE COULD BE A SUPPLY ISSUE.
>>
Gary Walker: OKAY.
>>
SO I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS OUT THERE WITH HOW THE
PLANNING PROCESS WAS NOT ADHERED TO AND HOW THE FORECASTING
WASN'T ADDRESSED AND YOU DISMANTLED AN ENERGY OFFICE IN THE
STATE OF NEW YORK BACK IN '95 AS ONE OF THE FIRST ORDERS OF
BUSINESS. BAD NEWS FOR CONSUMERS.
>>
Gary Walker: WHILE WE'RE DISCUSSING DEREGULATION, I WANT TO
BRING ANOTHER VOICE IN HERE, AND THIS IS REPUBLICAN SENATOR
GEORGE MAZIARZ. HE SPOKE WITH US YESTERDAY. Mr. MAZIARZ IS ON
THE STATE SENATE ENERGY COMMITTEE AND HAD THESE COMMENTS ON
THE POLITICAL BATTLE FOUGHT OVER THE STATE ENERGY POLICY AND
THE NEED FOR THOSE NEW ENERGY SERVICE COMPANIES.
>>
THERE'S NO MARKET FOR THEM BECAUSE I THINK THAT THEY SEE NEW
YORK AS A VERY UNFRIENDLY PLACE TO DO BUSINESS BECAUSE OF ALL
THE REGULATIONS, BECAUSE OF ALL THE TAXES. I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S
PLAN ADDRESSES THOSE ISSUES AND ONCE THE ASSEMBLY AGREES --
AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT OUR LOCAL ASSEMBLY DELEGATION, I THINK
THEY GET THE MESSAGE. I THINK IT'S OUR DOWNSTATE ASSEMBLY DELEGATION
THAT DID NOT GET THE MESSAGE. I THINK THE DEMOCRATIC ASSEMBLY
PLAN IS VERY LIGHT WHEN IT COMES TO SITING NEW SOURCES OF GENERATION,
WHICH I REALIZE WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL WITH ENVIRONMENTAL
CONCERNS, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO STRIKE THAT BALANCE. THAT'S
WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS TRYING TO DO, STRIKE THAT BALANCE IN CONJUNCTION
WITH THE SENATE. THE SENATE'S PLAN AND THE GOVERNOR'S PLAN ARE
PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE AND NEARLY IDENTICAL FROM THE STANDPOINT
OF ATTEMPTING TO SEARCH OUT NEW SOURCES OF GENERATION: WIND
POWER, SOLAR POWER, AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. BUT AT THE SAME
TIME, REALIZING THAT WE HAVE TO SITE MORE GENERATING PLANTS
IN NEW YORK STATE, PARTICULARLY IN THE DOWNSTATE AREA, TO GET
MORE ENERGY OUT ON TO THE GRID, HOPEFULLY. IT'S THE OLD QUESTION
OF SUPPLY-AND-DEMAND. IF THERE'S MORE SUPPLY OUT THERE, PRICES
ARE GOING TO BE DRIVEN DOWN. CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO
DO -- AND I THINK THIS MAY BE PART OF THE ASSEMBLY'S PLAN --
IS ALMOST A RE-EDUCATION. WE HAVE TO GET PEOPLE TO CONSERVE
MORE ENERGY. WE HAVE TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE. THAT'S ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT THE GOVERNOR WANTS TO DO, IS TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE
THROUGH TAX BREAKS TO PURCHASE MORE ENERGY-EFFICIENT APPLIANCES
AND DEVICES. YOU LOOK AT -- YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY, "OH, I DON'T
USE MUCH ELECTRICITY TODAY," BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF
TELEVISIONS IN HOMES AND YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF HOME COMPUTERS,
EVERY HOME TODAY HAS ONE. THE NUMBER OF ELECTRONIC APPLIANCES...
I MEAN DEMAND IS INCREASING AND YET THE SUPPLY IS DECREASING,
AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THE PRICES ARE GOING TO GO UP. UNFORTUNATELY,
IN NEW YORK STATE, AND THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST DISAPPOINTING
THING BEING A RELATIVELY NEW MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATIVE BODY
IN NEW YORK, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO TAKE A
CRISIS IN NEW YORK STATE TO GET THE THREE SIDES TO AGREE ON
SOMETHING. AND EVERYBODY -- AND THIS IS THE PART THAT NOBODY
LIKES, BUT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE A LITTLE BIT,
THE ASSEMBLY, THE GOVERNOR AND THE SENATE. I HAVE TO TELL YOU
THAT I FAVOR THE SENATE PLAN. I THINK WE'VE GOT A GREAT BALANCE
THERE BETWEEN SITING SOURCES OF ENERGY, EDUCATING ON DECREASING
DEMAND FOR ENERGY, AND EXPLORING ALTERNATIVE SOURCES OF ENERGY,
PARTICULARLY WIND POWER AND SOLAR POWER.
>>
Gary Walker: STATE SENATOR GEORGE MAZIARZ, WHO WAS INVITED TO
BE HERE, ALONG WITH STATE SENATOR JIM ALESI, BOTH LOCAL SENATORS
ON THE ENERGY COMMITTEE. BOTH COULD NOT MAKE IT TODAY. I SEE
ASSEMBLYMAN TONKO SHAKING HIS HEAD.
>>
I'M NOT SURPRISED WE'RE GETTING JUST A TAPED VERSION OF THEIR
MESSAGE. WE HAVE ASKED OVER AND OVER -- IN FACT, THE SPEAKER
OF OUR HOUSE, SHELDON SILVER, AND MYSELF AS ENERGY CHAIR OFFERED
AN INVITATION. WE FORWARDED AN INVITATION TO THE GOVERNOR AND
THE SENATE TO COME TO THE TABLE BACK IN THE FALL OF 2000. WE
HAVE STRUCTURED A PLAN FOR THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS ASKING
OUR COUNTERPARTS IN THE SENATE TO DO LIKEWISE AND THE GOVERNOR'S
OFFICE TO DO LIKEWISE. THERE HASN'T BEEN A PLAN OUT THERE. THAT
HAS BEEN MY CRITICISM AS ENERGY CHAIR. IT'S A BAND-AID APPROACH,
AND TO TALK ABOUT A PLAN IS LUDICROUS. WE HAVE ASKED THEM TO
COME TO THE TABLE, IDENTIFY CONCERNS, PROPOSE SOLUTIONS AND
LET'S BRING TOGETHER A COLLABORATION, THE FINAL OUTCOME BUILT
BY CONSENSUS. IT'S SUCH AN INTERESTING AND IMPORTANT COMMODITY.
AND TO SAY THAT THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT'S REGULATION AND TAXES,
WE HAVE BEEN ADDRESSING SOME OF THOSE ISSUES. WHAT'S REALLY
THE DYNAMIC OUT THERE IS NO COMPETITION. WE ASSIGNED VERY LITTLE
VALUE TO THE COMMODITY OF ENERGY, AND THAT WAS THE GOVERNOR'S
DOING THROUGH THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION, AND WE HAVE NOT
CREATED THE ENVIRONMENT. STATES NEIGHBORING US HAVE SEEN MARKETERS
COME IN BECAUSE THEY HAVE CREATED THE RIGHT SITUATION. AND WE
HAVE ONLY HAD TWO PLANTS APPROVED --
>> Gary Walker: WELL, THAT'S --
>>
I THINK THAT'S A DISMAL FAILURE --
>>
Gary Walker: I KNOW ONE THING FOR SURE: WE'RE NOT GOING TO SOLVE
THE POLITICAL ISSUE HERE. IT'S ALMOST AUGUST AND WE'RE STILL
IN A STATE BUDGET VACUUM, SO... BUT HE DID MAKE A POINT, SENATOR
MAZIARZ, THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE MORE POWER GENERATION. I THINK
EVERYBODY KNOWS WE HAVE TO HAVE MORE POWER GENERATION. HOW ARE
YOU GOING TO SITE THE PLANTS? WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO PUT THEM?
AND WHAT SORT OF PLANTS ARE THEY GOING TO BE? AND ARE THE PEOPLE
WHO DON'T WANT THEM IN THEIR BACKYARDS JUST GOING TO RAISE HOLY
HELL?
>>
IT IS A DIFFICULT ISSUE. BOTH ASSEMBLYMAN TONKO AND SENATOR
MAZIARZ MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT COMPROMISE BEING NECESSARY AND
THE NEED FOR BALANCING, AND THIS BALANCING OF MORE GENERATION,
ENERGY CONSERVATION, ALTERNATIVE FORMS OF ENERGY IS VALID. FOLKS
SUCH AS ASSEMBLYMAN TONKO WHO HAVE JOINED THIS ISSUE, WHO HAVE
ENGAGED THIS ISSUE, DESERVE CREDIT FOR DOING SO BECAUSE IT'S
A HARD ONE TO GET YOUR HANDS AROUND. BUT THE FACT THAT MORE
POWER PLANTS ARE GOING TO BE NEEDED IS, I THINK, UNDENIABLE.
WHAT RESTRUCTURING HAS DONE IS UNBUNDLED WHAT USED TO BE BUNDLED.
THE UTILITY USED TO PROVIDE EVERYTHING, FROM GENERATION TO DELIVERY
TO CUSTOMER SERVICE.
>> Gary Walker: BUT HASN'T IT SERVED US WELL, MIKE, IN ROCHESTER?
>>
IT HAS. IT HAS.
>>
Gary Walker: YOU CALL IT VERTICAL STACKING, BUT WE HAVE GUARANTEED
POWER SUPPLIES, WHERE WE'RE LOOKING GOOD. NIMO's POWER'S GOING
UP THROUGH THE ROOF, THEIR PRICES...
>>
A POINT THAT CHAIRMAN TONKO MADE EARLIER ABOUT THIS TAKING LONGER
THAN WE THOUGHT IS QUITE VALID. DURING THIS TRANSITION THAT'S
TAKING LONGER THAN WE THOUGHT, RG&E FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO
PROTECT CUSTOMERS. SO DURING THIS TRANSITION THAT'S PROBABLY
GOING TO TAKE SEVERAL YEARS, WE'RE REDUCING RATES AND ASSURING
SUPPLIES AND DOING WHAT WE CAN TO BRING CHOICE TO OUR COMMUNITY.
RIGHT NOW, ABOUT -- OVER 20% OF OUR ELECTRIC LOAD IS SERVED
BY OTHER SUPPLIERS, OTHER THAN RG&E, AND OVER 50% OF OUR GAS
LOAD IS SERVED BY NON-UTILITY SUPPLIERS. SO IT IS EVOLVING.
THERE ARE SOME UPS AND DOWNS. IN THE MEANTIME, IT'S IMPORTANT
TO PROTECT CONSUMERS, AND WE'RE TRYING TO DO THAT.
>>
WHAT I FOUND INTERESTING IN THE SENATOR'S COMMENTS, TWO IMPORTANT
POINTS: THEY'RE SAYING THEIR PLAN NEEDS TO BE MERGED WITH OURS.
THERE IS NO SENATE PLAN. THEY HAVE WALKED DOG-AND-PONY WITH
THE GOVERNOR, AND THE GOVERNOR HAS APPROACHED IT IN A VERY PIECEMEAL
FASHION AND IN A WAY THAT'S NOT STANDARDIZED. YOU CAN GO TO
THE DIFFERENT UTILITY REGIONS IN THIS STATE AND FIND DIFFERENT
STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS, DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHIES, DIFFERENT
ORDERS OF POLICY. THERE'S NO STANDARDIZATION. SO THAT'S A FAILURE.
AND SECOND OF ALL, HE POINTS TO THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO HAVE
SOMETHING IN OUR PLAN FOR ALLOWING FOR THE SUPPLY CRISIS TO
BE ADDRESSED. OUR PLAN IS THE ONLY ONE THAT ADDRESSES EXPEDITING
THE PROCESS OF THE SITING LAW. OURS IS THE ONLY ONE. WE PASSED
A MEASURE IN OUR HOUSE THAT PROVIDED INCENTIVE THROUGH AN ENVIRONMENTAL
SPIN. AND GUESS WHAT? THEY WERE FORCED INTO EMBARRASSMENT TO
PASS THAT BILL IN THE SENATE JUST RECENTLY BEFORE THEY LEFT
TOWN. ALSO, WE NOW ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE AMERICAN LUNG ASSOCIATION
LIKED THE ENERGY PLAN FROM THE STATE'S ASSEMBLY, WHICH HASTENED
THE PROCESS OF APPROVAL. THE SENATE WAS FORCED TO ACCEPT THAT
BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT WAS THE RIGHT ORDER OF POLICY. BUT IF YOU'D
COME TO THE TABLE AS A SENATE, IF YOU'D COME TO THE TABLE AS
THE GOVERNOR AND BUILD A CONSENSUS, YOU WOULD SERVE THE CONSUMERS
OF THIS STATE WELL. YOU HAD SENATOR BRUNO AS THE LEADER OF THE
SENATE SAYING, "WELL, THE ASSEMBLY PLAN, YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH
IT. IT'S LEGISLATION. YOU NEED IT TO STAY OFF. IT'S A LAISSEZ-FAIRE
APPROACH." NOW WHAT ARE THEY DOING? THEY'RE ACCEPTING ONE OF
THE LEGISLATIVE UNDERPINNINGS OF OUR PROGRAM, AND THEY'RE ADOPTING
IT BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT WE ADDRESS THE SUPPLY ISSUE.
>>
Gary Walker: LET ME ASK YOU THIS ABOUT THE FUTURE, AND IT REALLY
CONCERNS US HERE IN ROCHESTER. IF IT'S AN ACCURATE THING TO
SAY, THE THUMBNAIL SKETCH OF DEREGULATION IS THAT A UTILITY
LIKE RG&E WILL NO LONGER BE IN THE POWER-GENERATING BUSINESS.
NOW, THEY MAY STILL OWN THE PLANT, BUT THEY WILL HAVE TO HAVE
A SUBSIDIARY COMPANY TO OWN IT AND OPERATE IT, BUT NONETHELESS,
AM I RIGHT IN SAYING THAT AT ONE POINT, RG&E AND ITS SUBSIDIARY
COMPANIES WILL BE ABLE TO SELL POWER TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO
BUY IT, WHOEVER WANTS TO BID ON IT, AND IF THEY SIGN LONG-TERM
CONTRACTS, COULD THERE NOT BE A SITUATION WHERE THE POWER THAT
WAS ONCE GUARANTEED TO ROCHESTER, BECAUSE IT WAS RG&E AND THEY
OWNED THE PLANTS AND WE WERE GUARANTEED IT, COULD FIND THEMSELVES
SHORT OF POWER WHEN THEY HAVE THE POWER GENERATION RIGHT IN
THEIR OWN BACKYARD? IT WOULD BE LIKE LIVING NEXT TO NIAGARA
FALLS AND HAVING EXPENSIVE POWER.
>>
IT IS A CONCERN BECAUSE THERE NEEDS TO BE THE EXTRA CAPACITY
THAT WILL ALLOW FOR THE SHOPPING TO TAKE HOLD, FOR THE COMPETITION,
FOR THE CHOICE TO WORK. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO STRIKE A BARGAIN
FOR THE CONSUMER IF SUPPLY EQUALS DEMAND. SO THERE'S CONCERN
ABOUT THAT. WHAT RG&E DID IN THIS TRANSITION STAGE IS, I BELIEVE,
SPEAK IN FAVOUR OF STABILITY AND PREDICTABILITY FOR THEIR CONSUMERS.
AND SO THEY OFFERED THAT KIND OF SAFER ENVIRONMENT. WE DIDN'T
DO THAT IN OTHER REGIONS OF THE STATE. THE WAY THAT THE MARKET
WAS SET UP IN THIS STATE, THE WAY THE I.S.L. WAS DEVELOPED,
YOU HAVE THE HIGHEST-PRICED POWER COMING IN AND DRIVING THE
PRICE OF THE MARKET. AND THAT'S PRODUCED A RIPPLE EFFECT INTO
REGIONS EVEN LIKE THIS, WHERE PEOPLE ARE PAYING MORE FOR POWER,
PERHAPS 3 TO 5% MORE, BECAUSE WE HAVE SET UP AN ISO CONCEPT
THAT AGAIN IS NOT CONSUMER-DRIVEN. SO THERE AREN'T CONSUMER
PROTECTIONS, THERE ISN'T A DEVELOPMENT OF A MARKET. THERE ISN'T
CHOICE, AND IT'S BEEN DONE WITHOUT LEGISLATIVE INPUT AND WITHOUT
PUBLIC DEBATE. AND WE HAVE PLEADED THAT OUR PARTNERS IN ALBANY,
THE GOVERNOR AND THE SENATE, COME TO THE TABLE. WE HAVE DEFINED,
WE HAVE SCRIPTED A PLAN. IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT, SHOW US
AND SHOW US WHY AND PRODUCE THE BENEFIT FOR THE CONSUMER.
>> Gary Walker: WE HAVE ABOUT A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT. MIKE,
DO YOU WANT TO COME IN ON THIS?
>>
LET ME JUST SAY THAT IT'S OBVIOUS THAT FEELINGS ON THIS RUN
HIGH. AND IT'S GOOD. THAT'S HEALTHY. THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CONTRIBUTING
TO A PRODUCTIVE DISCUSSION SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, COMMENDED FOR
THAT. I THINK DURING THIS EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS, THIS PAINFUL
PERIOD OF UPS AND DOWNS, YOU NEED TO RUN YOUR COMPANY AS WE
TRY TO RUN OURS, THE WAY YOUR CUSTOMERS WANT TO RUN IT. WE HAVE
ASKED CUSTOMERS WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO THEM AND IN ORDER THEY HAVE
TOLD US: RELIABILITY. SECOND, PRICE. THERE'S NO SENSE OF HAVING
A DISCUSSION ABOUT PRICE IF THE LIGHTS ARE OUT. SO WE HAVE KEPT
OUR SYSTEM RELIABLE BY INCREASING OUR INVESTMENT IN THE SYSTEM.
THE THIRD IS CHOICE. THEY WANT CHOICES. THEY'RE GETTING THEM;
THEY'LL WILL GET MORE AS TIME GOES ON. FOURTH, IT'S COMMUNITY
RESPONSIBILITY. CONTINUE TO BE A GOOD CORPORATE CITIZEN IN YOUR
COMMUNITY. AND THOSE FOUR GUIDING PRINCIPLES SERVE OUR CUSTOMERS
WELL AND WILL SERVE THE COMPANY WELL.
>> Gary Walker: YOUR COMPANY HAS A DECISION TO MAKE IN 2009
WITH THE GINNA PLANT. WE HAVE HEARD, YOU KNOW, THAT IT'S STILL
LOOKING PRETTY HEALTHY. THE COMPANY SAYS IT'S STILL A STRONG
PRODUCER, AND DESPITE THE INCIDENT IN THE '80s, IT'S HAD A VERY
GOOD TRACK RECORD WITH THE N.R.C. WILL THE GINNA PLANT BE AVAILABLE
FOR ROCHESTER POWER USERS AFTER THE YEAR 2009?
>> WELL, THAT DECISION WE'LL HAVE TO MAKE CLOSER TO 2009, BUT
WE'RE TAKING THE STEPS NOW TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE IF THAT'S IN
THE BEST INTERESTS OF CONSUMERS. ULTIMATELY THE ANSWER IS, IS
IT STILL IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF CONSUMERS TO OPERATE THAT
PLANT? RIGHT NOW IT IS. WE'LL MAKE THAT DECISION AS WE GET CLOSER
TO 2009.
>>
Gary Walker: BECAUSE IT'S NOT -- ALL OUR EGGS ARE NOT IN ONE
BASKET, BUT HALF OF THEM ARE. IT'S HALF OF OUR POWER, AND IF
IT GOES AWAY, OUCH!
>>
WELL, THAT'S TRUE; THAT'S TRUE. YOU THINK IF -- THIS IS A LITTLE
IMITATION URANIUM PELLET. YOU SEE HOW SMALL THAT IS? THERE ARE
7 MILLION OF THOSE INSIDE THE GINNA PLANT. THIS LITTLE PELLET
IS LIKE ONE TON OF COAL. AND AS LONG AS YOU CAN KEEP A PLANT
LIKE THAT ON LINE AND PRODUCING POWER CHEAPLY, WHOEVER OWNS
IT, IT'S PROBABLY A PRETTY GOOD IDEA. BUT WE'LL ASSESS THAT
AS WE GET CLOSER TO THE RENEWAL DATE.
>>
Gary Walker: ASSEMBLYMAN?
>>
WITH THE NEW ERA OF THE ENERGY INDUSTRY COMING, IF YOU DON'T
HAVE SUPPLY, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO STRIKE THE BENEFIT FOR CONSUMERS.
WE HAVE, UNDER THE PATAKI PLAN, GONE FROM 62% ABOVE THE NATIONAL
AVERAGE TO 70%. RESIDENTIALS HAVE GONE TO 82% ABOVE THE NATIONAL
AVERAGE. ON A STATEWIDE PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE FAILED AND FAILED
MISERABLY. RECENTLY WITH AN ENERGY HEARING IN BUFFALO WE WERE
TOLD BY LOCAL OFFICIALS, "WE'RE NOT LOSING JOBS TO THIRD WORLD
NATIONS; WE'RE LOSING THEM TO NEIGHBORING STATES." IF THE NEIGHBORING
STATES, EMBRACING THEIR LEGISLATURES, COULD PUT TOGETHER A SOUND
PLAN WHERE THEY HAVE BROUGHT BENEFITS THERE TO THEIR CONSUMERS
AND THEIR BUSINESSES, WHY CAN'T WE HERE IN THIS STATE? THAT'S
WHERE WE'RE GOING TO LOSE JOBS, BASED ON ENERGY ISSUES.
>>
Gary Walker: A QUICK, ALMOST ONE LINE ANSWER FROM YOU --
>> SURE.
>> Gary Walker: WILL IT TAKE A CRISIS IN NEW YORK STATE POWER
TO GET AN ENERGY POLICY IN NEW YORK STATE?
>> I'M CONCERNED THAT IT WILL AND WHY SHOULD IT? WE HAVE OFFERED
THE INVITATION FROM THE ASSEMBLY TO THE LEADERSHIP AND OTHER
PARTNERS IN ALBANY. THEY REFUSE TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUES AND
I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S AN UTTER FAILURE ON BEHALF OF OUR BUSINESS
COMMUNITY AND OUR CONSUMERS.
>>
Gary Walker: MIKE? DO WE NEED AN ENERGY POLICY?
>>
WE NEED ONE. I THINK ONE IS EVOLVING. I DON'T THINK THERE HAS
TO BE A CRISIS. I THINK PEOPLE OF GOODWILL CAN COME TOGETHER
AND MAKE THIS WORK.
>>
LET ME JUST SAY WE SHOULD HAVE PUT IT TOGETHER BEFORE YOU OPENED
THE GATES TO COMPETITION.
>>
Gary Walker: AND THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS DISCUSSION.
GENTLEMEN, I WANT TO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. ASSEMBLYMAN
TONKA, COMING ALL THE WAY FROM ALBANY TWO WEEKS IN A ROW, ABOVE
AND BEYOND THE CALL OF DUTY. THAT CONCLUDES THIS WEEK'S EDITION
OF "NEED TO KNOW." A QUICK PROGRAMMING NOTE FOR YOU NOW: "NEED
TO KNOW" WILL NOT AIR NEXT WEEK SO WE MAY BRING YOU A SPECIAL
"LIVE FROM LINCOLN CENTER" PERFORMANCE. JOIN US IN TWO WEEKS
ON JULY 26th FOR THE NEXT EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW" WHEN WE
ANSWER THE QUESTION: WHY ARE LATINAS, WOMEN LATINOS, IN THIS
COUNTRY THE LEAST LIKELY GROUP OF WOMEN TO OBTAIN A HIGHER EDUCATION?
THANKS FOR JOINING US. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.