Labor Shortage -- 28 June 2001

>> JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW," IT'S THE HEIGHT OF CONSTRUCTION SEASON, BUT CONTRACTORS SAY THERE'S TOO FEW WORKERS; AND NEXT TIME YOU SEE A CONSTRUCTION CREW ALONG THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, TAKE A SECOND LOOK. LABOR'S FACE IS CHANGING. WE'LL TALK WITH LEADERS OF THE LABOR INDUSTRY TO FIND OUT HOW LOCAL HOME BUILDING AND PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS ARE AFFECTED. PLUS WE'LL TALK WITH 1370 CONNECTION'S BOB SMITH. HE'S ALSO WORKING ON THIS DEVELOPING STORY. IT'S ALL COMING UP NEXT ON "NEED TO KNOW."

>> YOU TALK ABOUT A LABOR SHORTAGE. THERE'S DEFINITELY A SKILL SHORTAGE OF PEOPLE ENTERING APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS OR EVEN BASIC ENTRY-LEVEL JOBS.

>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH NEWS PROGRAM. "NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS, EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.

>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gary: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M GARY WALKER. IN ROCHESTER, THIS IS THE SEASON FOR BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION; BUT WHAT IF THERE WERE HOMES AND BUSINESSES TO BUILD AND NO ONE TO BUILD THEM? A QUESTION BEING ASKED BY EVERYONE FROM DEVELOPERS TO HOMEOWNERS TO PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND HAS CAUSE FOR CONCERN. THIS YEAR THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF HOME BUILDERS REPORTS A SHORTAGE OF 200,000 TO 250,000 TRADESPEOPLE ACROSS THE NATION. LOCALLY BOTH UNION AND NON-UNION LABOR ASSOCIATIONS SAY EXACT FIGURES ARE DIFFICULT TO TRACK, BUT DEVELOPERS ARE COMPLAINING THEY DO NOT HAVE THE WORKERS TO FULFILL THEIR ORDERS ON TIME. THE LABOR CRUNCH IS BEING FELT BY COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION DEVELOPERS AS WELL AS HOME BUILDERS. EITHER WAY, TAXPAYERS AND CONSUMERS ARE PAYING FOR THE SHORTAGE WITH BOTH DELAYS AND HIGHER PRICES. "NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS FOUND OUT WHY WE'RE SUDDENLY SHORT OF WORKERS.

>> THE FRAMERS, THE MASONS, SOME OF THE SIDING COMPANIES, ROOFERS.

>> Matt: A SHORTAGE OF CONSTRUCTION LABORERS IN THE ROCHESTER AREA HAS LOCAL HOME DEVELOPERS LIKE MARIE KENTON SCRAMBLING TO FIND WORKERS TO FINISH PROJECTS.

>> A HOUSE SUCH AS THE ONE THAT YOU'RE STANDING BEHIND, WE'RE ABOUT THREE WEEKS PAST OUR ORIGINAL DELIVERY DATE BECAUSE WE HAD SOME LABOR SHORTAGES IN EARLIER PHASES OF CONSTRUCTION. WE NEVER, EVER HAD PROBLEMS BEFORE. WE NEVER MISSED CLOSINGS. AND NOW WE'VE EXTENDED WHEN WE'VE PROMISED DATES, WE'VE HAD THE DATE TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE BEING CAUTIOUS.

>> LARGE CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS, WHETHER COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL, EVERYONE'S LOOKING FOR HELP: ELECTRICIANS, ROOFERS, DRYWALLERS, FRAMERS. YEAH, THERE'S DEFINITELY A NEED FOR PEOPLE.

>> Matt: MATTHEW HURLBUTT FROM THE ROCHESTER RESOURCE ALLIANCE HAS TRACKED THE CURRENT LABOR SHORTAGE. HE SAYS IT STARTS WITH THE RETIREMENT OF THE BABY BOOMERS.

>> YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THE LOSS OF KNOWLEDGE, LOSING A LOT OF EXPERIENCE. PROBLEMS FOR THE COMPANY. IT'S HARD TO TAKE A MIDDLE-LEVEL MANAGER AND PROMOTE THEM TO C.E.O. OVERNIGHT WITHOUT CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE. SO I THINK THAT'S THE THING WE'VE HEARD A LOT FROM SPECIFICALLY THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY. A LOT OF THEIR TOP PEOPLE ARE AGING, LOOKING AT RETIREMENT, AND HOW THEY FILL THOSE NEEDS?

>> Matt: A SHIFT IN THE INDUSTRY IS ALSO TO BLAME.

>> RIGHT NOW I THINK THE LABOR SHORTAGE CAME ABOUT BECAUSE, SEVERAL YEARS AGO, BUILDING IN NEW YORK AND IN ROCHESTER IN PARTICULAR, KIND OF MET A QUIET MOMENT, AND SO A LOT OF OUR TRADESMEN MOVED SOUTH TO THE CAROLINAS AND SUCH, AND THOSE THAT WERE LEFT WERE A CORE GROUP THAT WERE HANDLING OUR WORKLOAD FOR QUITE AWHILE. BUT WITH THE INTEREST RATE DROP AND WITH THE BUILDING OF SCHOOLS, WHICH HAVE TAKEN A LOT OF OUR TRADESMEN, AND THE GROWTH IN THE SPINOFF COMPANIES FROM SAY XEROX, KODAK, WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD VERY, VERY BUSY YEARS BACK TO BACK, AND ACTUALLY THE EXISTING HOME MARKET HAS BEEN DEPLETED, AND SO MORE NEW HOMES ARE GOING UP BECAUSE THERE'S NOT AS MANY EXISTING TO CHOOSE FROM AS THERE USED TO BE. SO ALL OF THAT HAS BROUGHT ABOUT A SHORTAGE OF LABOR IN OUR MARKET.

>> Matt: KENTON SAYS THE LABOR SHORTAGE IS WREAKING HAVOC IN THE SCHEDULING OF DIFFERENT LABOR CREWS, FORCING DELAYS IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF NEW AREA HOMES BY UP TO A FEW MONTHS. ONE VETERAN OF THE SIDING INDUSTRY WE SPOKE TO SAYS HE THINKS HE KNOWS WHY.

>> I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT KIDS THESE DAYS AREN'T GETTING INTO THE BUILDING TRADES PROGRAMS THAT -- YOU KNOW, FATHER AND SON TYPE OF BUSINESSES. THEY JUST AREN'T DOING IT ANY MORE. WHETHER THAT'S THE ECONOMY ENCOURAGING KIDS TO GO TO COLLEGE AND PARENTS HAVING MORE MONEY THAN THEY USED TO TO BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, HELP THEIR KIDS OUT IS GOING TO COLLEGE. BUT BUILDING TRADES PROGRAMS JUST AREN'T WHAT THEY USED TO BE.

>> THE JOB SEEKERS COMING OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE HAVE MORE CHOICES NOW. PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE MOBILE THAN THEY USED TO BE. AND JUST READING OVER SOME LOCAL DATA ON HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, CLOSE TO 60% ARE LOOKING AT I.T.-RELATED CAREERS. IT'S KIND OF WHAT YOU HEAR ABOUT. THE NEWS IS REPORTING ON THE BOOMING OPTIONS, STOCK OPTIONS AND THE PERKS OF THESE I.T. JOBS; SO A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THOSE AND NOT AT THEIR TRADITIONAL OCCUPATIONS OF, YOU KNOW, BEING A PLUMBER OR A MACHINIST OR CARPENTER JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE HEARD THAT BEFORE. SO THE NEWEST AND LATEST THING IS WHAT THEY'RE JUMPING ON.

>> Matt: WHILE DEVELOPERS ARE TRYING TO CHANGE THAT IMAGE, THE LABOR CRUNCH STILL IMPACTS TODAY'S ECONOMY.

>> THAT WOULD BE SPIN-OFF ACTIVITY. IF YOU DON'T HAVE WORKERS ON A JOB SITE, THEN THE LOCAL DELI NEXT DOOR, WHO MIGHT BE FEEDING THOSE WORKERS, WON'T SEE THEM. AND AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, ORDERING PRODUCTS, THE LUMBER COMPANIES THAT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S A SPIRALING EFFECT. SO CERTAINLY IF WE HAD MORE LABORERS, IT WOULD SPIN OFF TO OTHER AREAS AS WELL.

>> Matt: FOR DEVELOPERS LIKE KENTON, THERE ARE OTHER EFFECTS.

>> SAME WITH THE ROOFER; IF HE DOESN'T SHOW UP AND CLOSE IN THE STRUCTURE, THEN YOU CAN'T DO THE ROUGH MECHANICALS, THE PLUMBING, THE HEATING, THE ELECTRICAL, AND IF THOSE TRADES DON'T GET IN AND DO THE ROUGH, THEN YOU CAN'T START THE DRYWALL BECAUSE YOU CLOSE IT ALL IN AND THOSE THINGS WON'T BE IN PLACE. SO -- OR IF THE INSULATOR DOESN'T SHOW UP, YOU CAN'T START DRYWALL. IF THE DRYWALLER'S LATE, YOU CAN'T START TRIM; YOU CAN'T START PAINT. SO IT'S KIND OF EVERYBODY FOLLOWS THE TRADES FOR THEM.

>> Matt: THOSE DELAYS ARE FELT CLOSER TO HOME.

>> USUALLY IT'S A COST. IT ALL DEPENDS ON IF YOU'RE A HOME OWNER WAITING FOR YOUR FIRST HOME TO BE BUILT, IT COULD DELAY YOU SEVERAL MONTHS IF YOU DON'T HAVE FRAMERS, DRYWALLERS TO COMPLETE THE PROJECT, AND AS THOSE DELAYS GO ON, THE COST OF PRODUCTS INCREASE, SO IT COULD COST YOU MORE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN, AND ON A COMMERCIAL PROJECT AS WELL. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE SKILLED LABOR TO PUT THE BUILDING TOGETHER, AS PRODUCTS GO UP, IT'S GOING TO COST YOU MORE MONEY.

>> Matt: BUT THERE MAY BE A SILVER LINING. THE CURRENT LABOR SHORTAGE IS NOW PROVIDING OPPORTUNITIES FOR THOSE WHO TRADITIONALLY HAVE NOT BEEN A PART OF THE CONSTRUCTION LABOR WORK FORCE, INCLUDING WOMEN.

>> WE ACTUALLY HAVE CREWS WHERE THEY'VE HAD INMATES COME AND WORK, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF A FOUNDATION MASONRY CREW. WE HAVE INSULATORS THAT HAVE MEXICAN LABOR NOW. SO WE'VE SEEN CREATIVITY IN TRYING TO BRING IN WORK SOURCE SUPPLEMENTING. THAT'S MAYBE WHAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN 20 YEARS AGO.

>> I THINK A TIGHT LABOR MARKET MAKES A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOK IN AREAS THAT THEY DIDN'T TRADITIONALLY HAVE TO. YOU KNOW, IN THE MACHINING AREA, IN THE CONSTRUCTION AREA, I DON'T THINK THEY'VE REALLY HAD TO RECRUIT BEFORE.

(Music)

>> Gary: MONROE COUNTY'S UNEMPLOYMENT RATE LAST MONTH WAS 3.9%. THAT'S CONSIDERED FULL EMPLOYMENT BY LABOR INDUSTRY ANALYSTS, MEANING CONTRACTORS AND DEVELOPERS ARE COMPETING WITH THE OTHER INDUSTRIES, SUCH AS HEALTH CARE, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND RETAIL FOR THE SAME LABOR FORCE. JOINING ME IN STUDIO TO DISCUSS THAT LABOR SHORTAGE ARE PENNY HAZER. SHE IS DIRECTOR OF THE ASSOCIATED BUILDERS AND CONTRACTORS FOR NEW YORK STATE IN THIS REGION. TOM HELFRICH. HE'S PRESIDENT OF THE BUILDERS' EXCHANGE OF ROCHESTER. AND RONN POMMERENING. HE'S WITH THE BRICKLAYERS LOCAL 11. I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR TAKING TIME OUT, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE PROBABLY BUSY RIGHT NOW. THIS IS YOUR BUSY SEASON.

>> EXTREMELY.

>> Gary: OKAY. AS WE WERE TALKING JUST BRIEFLY BEFORE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF MY OWN HISTORY COMES FROM SKILLED TRADES, AND BACK WHEN I WAS COMING UP, I MEAN, IT'S ASTOUNDING TO ME BECAUSE THESE ARE GREAT-PAYING JOBS, USUALLY HANDED DOWN FROM FATHER TO SON. I MEAN, I REMEMBER GETTING A UNION CARD WAS PRETTY DARN DIFFICULT, AND EVEN THE HIGH-PAYING NON-UNION JOBS, THEY WERE DIFFICULT TO COME BY. WHAT'S HAPPENED?

>> GARY, IF I COULD, FIRST OF ALL I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR, YOU KNOW, HAVING US ON THE SHOW, ORGANIZED LABOR. JUST TO EXPLAIN OUR SITUATION HERE IN OUR COMMUNITY, YES, THERE IS A DEFINITE WORKER SHORTAGE, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO MEET THE DEMANDS BY BRINGING IN, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MANY, MANY YEARS, NEWER PEOPLE THAT, LIKE YOU SAID, FOR YOURSELF WAS DIFFICULT TO GET A UNION CARD. UHMM, OUR LOCAL, ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO, 25 YEARS AGO, IT WAS DIFFICULT TO GET A UNION CARD. BUT IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, WE'VE HAD SOME TREMENDOUS ORGANIZING PROGRAMS, AND WE HAVE ATTRACTED SOME GOOD, GOOD PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, TO COME IN. AND NOW WITH THE INCREASE OF WORK, IT'S HELPED US EVEN MORE.

>> Gary: LET'S TALK ABOUT -- I WANT TO GET INTO THE TRAINING. FIRST I WANT TO SEE IF I CAN TOUCH BASE ON SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON AS WELL. AND I UNDERSTAND, FROM THE PACKAGE THAT MATT JUST DID, SOME OF THE ISSUES; BUT SOME OF THIS -- THERE'S THIS AWFUL GOING SOUTH BECAUSE THERE'S LIKE MORE CONSTRUCTION. IT WAS BOOMING DOWN THERE AS OPPOSED TO THE NORTHEAST?

>> THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT THERE IS MORE ACTIVITY IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY THAN THERE IS IN NEW YORK STATE OR UPSTATE NEW YORK. THEY'VE GONE THROUGH PRACTICALLY A DECADE; WHEREAS THE REST OF THE COUNTRY STARTED TO ECONOMICALLY IMPROVE, WE FOLLOWED, IF AT ALL, VERY SLOWLY. IN FACT WE'RE HEADED DOWN AT THE POINT WHERE THE REST OF THE STATE -- THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IS DOING VERY WELL. UPSTATE HAS COME ALONG. WE'RE CERTAINLY IMPROVED. WE'RE VERY MUCH BETTER THAN WE WERE FIVE YEARS AGO, BUT WE ARE CLEARLY GROWING SLOWER THAN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. AND PEOPLE HAVE GONE AFTER JOBS WHERE THEY ARE. CONTRACTORS GO SOUTH OR WEST. PEOPLE HAVE TO FOLLOW.

>> Gary: I'M GOING TO ASK PENNY. I KNOW WE'RE LAGGING BEHIND OTHER BOOM AREAS. LIKE IF YOU'RE IN ATLANTA RIGHT NOW, THAT'S JUST LIKE NONSTOP CONSTRUCTION ALL THE TIME. IT SEEMS THAT HERE THOUGH -- ARE WE UNUSUAL OR ARE THERE OTHER PARTS OF THE NATION FEELING THE SHORTAGE?

>> I THINK ABSOLUTELY ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT THERE IS A REAL SHORTAGE OF SKILLED LABOR OUT THERE, AND IT IS HAVING A REAL DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON OUR CONTRACTORS, PARTICULARLY OPEN-SHOP CONTRACTORS, MERIT CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTORS WHO ARE NOT SIGNATORY, WHO REALLY RELY ON BUILDING THEIR OWN TEAM OF WORKERS THAT THEY TAKE WITH THEM, OR THEY HAVE TO DEVELOP IN DIFFERENT REGIONS. SO THAT SHORTAGE IS REALLY CRITICAL FOR THEM SINCE THEY'RE ALWAYS REESTABLISHING THAT TEAM TO BUILD A BUILDING OR A HOUSE OR WHATEVER IT IS THAT THEY'RE WORKING ON.

>> Gary: IT'S ALSO -- IS IT THE CHANGING ECONOMY AS WELL? WE WERE REACTING TO, WHEN THE VIDEOTAPE PACKAGE WAS ON, IS THAT, IF YOU'RE A KID IN HIGH SCHOOL AND YOU HAVE THIS MOUSE AND YOU'RE PUSHING ALONG A PAD, THAT SEEMS A HECK OF A LOT EASIER THAN BEING OUT ON A ROADSIDE OR DRAGGING CABLES THROUGH CONDUITS OR WORKING WITH A TAMPING MACHINE.

>> A LOT OF YOUNG WORKERS OUT THERE, BOTH MALE AND FEMALE, THEY'RE REALLY KIND OF QUESTIONABLE ABOUT WANTING TO ENTER INTO THE TRADES BECAUSE IT CAN BE SEASONAL. YOU CAN BE WORKING OUT IN THE MUD AND THE SNOW AND THE COLD. BUT A LOT OF -- THERE'S STILL QUITE A FEW YOUNG PEOPLE THAT DO WANT TO COME IN. I KNOW THIS AFTERNOON WE HAVE TO INTERVIEW 15 MORE PEOPLE IN OUR ORGANIZATION. THIS YEAR ALONE, WE'VE TAKEN IN -- WE'VE INCREASED OUR APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM ABOUT THREEFOLD. WE USED TO MAINTAIN ABOUT 40 APPRENTICES. NOW WE'RE UP TO I THINK IT'S CLOSE TO 70.

>> Gary: ALMOST DOUBLE. LET ME ASK BOTH TOM AND PENNY THIS AS WELL. MAYBE IT WAS ABOUT 75 YEARS AGO THAT I REMEMBER THIS, BUT IT SEEMS THAT WAY ANYWAY. BUT WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, I MEAN, THERE WAS THE B.O.C.E.S. PROGRAM WAS REALLY A RICH AREA FOR SKILLED TRADES, AND THEY WERE GRADUATING LOTS OF KIDS THAT WENT RIGHT INTO THE APPRENTICE PROGRAMS. IS THAT NOT THE CASE ANY MORE?

>> I THINK IT'S STARTING. I THINK IT'S REALLY STARTING TO IMPROVE AND INCREASE. WE WORK WITH A NUMBER OF SCHOOLS AROUND NEW YORK STATE TO CERTIFY THEIR VOCATIONAL TRAINING PROGRAMS, THEIR CARPENTER TRADES, PLUMBING TRADES, ELECTRICAL TRADES THROUGH THE NATIONAL CENTER FOR CONSTRUCTION EDUCATION AND RESEARCH, WHICH IS OUR NATIONAL EDUCATION PARENT, IF YOU WILL.

>> Gary: OKAY. BY THAT DO YOU MEAN THAT THE CURRICULUM THAT THEY'RE STUDYING IS GOING TO MATCH WHAT THE WANTS AND NEEDS OR THEIR REQUIREMENTS?

>> ABSOLUTELY. N.C.C.R. IS A COALITION CONTACT ORGANIZATIONS AND PROFESSIONALS, BOTH OPEN SHOP AND UNION, WHO HAVE REALLY COLLECTIVELY IDENTIFIED A SKILL SET FOR THE INDIVIDUAL TRADES, COME UP WITH A CURRICULA THAT IDENTIFIES BOTH THE HANDS-ON COMPETENCIES AND THE COGNITIVE COMPETENCIES. WHAT DO YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT, NOT JUST HOW TO DO IT BUT WHY TO DO IT. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS TAKING THIS CURRICULUM AND REALLY EXPLODING IT ACROSS NEW YORK STATE SO THAT, WHEN THESE STUDENTS GO THROUGH THE PROGRAM, THEY GET PRIDE OF WORKMANSHIP AND LEARN HOW TO DO SOMETHING. THEY UNDERSTAND WHY THEY'RE DOING IT. THEY CAN FIND THEIR WORK, YOU KNOW, AND REALLY, YOU KNOW, GET SOME CONFIDENCE IN WHAT THEY'RE CAPABLE OF DOING; AT THE SAME TIME MOVE ON FROM THAT PROGRAM AND GO INTO APPRENTICESHIP TRAINING PROGRAMS OR CRAFT TRAINING PROGRAMS IF THE CONTRACTORS ARE NOT ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN REGISTERED APPRENTICESHIPS.

>> Gary: TOM, YOU WANT IN HERE?

>> YEAH. I THINK WE'VE FINALLY COME TO REALIZE IN CONSTRUCTION, WITHIN RELATIVELY THE LAST FEW YEARS, TEN AT THE VERY MOST, THAT VERY FEW PEOPLE WANT TO GO WORK IN CONSTRUCTION OR IN ANY JOB THAT INVOLVES DIRTY HANDS OR THE TRADITIONAL WAYS THAT AMERICA MADE ITS MONEY. FARMING IS DOWN. MANUFACTURING IS DOWN. CONSTRUCTION IS DOWN. THAT'S NOT WHERE YOU WANT YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER TO MAKE THEIR -- WE'RE FINALLY STARTING TO USE THE WORD CAREER, BUT WHAT WE THOUGHT ABOUT JOBS. IN THE IDEA OF A CAREER, WE HAD A JOB FAIR IN EARLY MAY, FIRST ONE OF ITS KIND IN NEW YORK STATE I BELIEVE EVER. WELL OVER 400 PEOPLE CAME. MORE THAN HALF OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HIRED DIRECTLY WITHIN FOUR DAYS OF THAT AFFAIR WERE FOR WHITE-COLLAR ENGINEERING, ARCHITECT, WHITE-COLLAR KINDS OF JOBS, AND CERTAINLY BUILDING TRADES AS WELL. WE'RE TRYING TO GET ACROSS TO THE STUDENTS AND TO THEIR TEACHERS AND THE GUIDANCE COUNSELORS THAT THIS CAN BE A VERY LUCRATIVE, ENJOYABLE, REWARDING KIND OF A CAREER. THEN AS YOU START OUT TRADITIONALLY WORKING WITH YOUR HANDS, MOST SUPERVISION, MOST OWNERS OF THE SMALL BUSINESSES THAT REPRESENT THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY, HAVE COME UP THROUGH THE RANKS IF YOU WILL, WHERE THEY'VE GONE OUT; THEY'VE STARTED THEIR SUMMERS. THEY'VE STARTED THEIR -- IF THEY GO TO COLLEGE, WORKING, COME INTO THE INDUSTRY. IT'S NOT JUST A FAMILY. IT'S NOT JUST A HIERARCHY THAT YOU'VE GOT TO BUY YOUR WAY INTO BY RELATIVES AND BLOOD.

>> Gary: EXACTLY.

>> IT'S VERY DIFFERENT TODAY AND IT'S A LIFELONG LEARNING PROCESS. I'M FAMILIAR WITH RONN AND THE APPRENTICE AND JOURNEYMAN TRAINING PROGRAM. TEN YEARS AGO, THAT WAS AN APPRENTICE TRAINING PROGRAM. IN THE LAST YEARS WE'VE FOUND THAT PROBABLY MOST OF THE HOURS IN MANY OF THE TRADES IN ROCHESTER ARE SPENT BROADENING, CROSS-TRAINING, ENLARGING AND IMPROVING THE EDUCATION OF PEOPLE. SAFETY HAS IMPROVED IMMEASURABLY IN THE QUANTITY OF INFORMATION IT PRACTICES. THERE ARE CONTINUING EDUCATION PROGRAMS. THE APPRENTICE PROGRAMS AND THE ASSOCIATIONS ARE PAYING FOR COLLEGE COURSES FOR BUILDING TRADESMEN.

>> IF I CAN JUST JUMP IN HERE. I'M SITTING HERE THINKING, AT THE TURN OF GOING INTO THE 20th CENTURY, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE BUILDING OUR ROADS, OUR TOWNS, VILLAGES WERE IMMIGRANTS THAT WERE COMING IN FROM IRELAND, GERMANY, ITALY. NOW WE'RE GOING INTO THE 21st CENTURY AND THE PEOPLE ARE STILL THERE, BUT IT'S ATTRACTING THEM AND GETTING THEM IN. WE'RE TAKING IN NOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, MORE HISPANICS, MORE YOUNG PEOPLE UP FROM MEXICO, MORE AND MORE.

>> AND WOMEN, TOO.

>> AND WE HAVE BEEN, IN OUR LOCAL WE HAD THREE -- WE LOST ONE. WE'RE DOWN TO TWO FEMALES. PFEIFFER STARTED 35 YEARS AGO.

>> I SHOOK MY HEAD AND I USED TO GO HOME AND TOLD MY WIFE BECAUSE SHE WOULD SAY, GEES, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO GET LICENSED NOW. THERE'S NO WAY YOU'LL EVER SEE A WOMAN, YOU KNOW, DOING BRICK LAYING. SURE ENOUGH... (Laughter)

>> Gary: I THINK, WHEN WE STARTED DOING THIS STORY, YOU CAN'T HELP IT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE TOPIC, AND EVERY TIME I DROVE BY A ROAD CREW, I DID CHECK OUT AND, LO AND BEHOLD, THERE ARE FAR MORE WOMEN AND FAR MORE MINORITIES. PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO ATTRACT HISPANIC. THE POPULATION HAS GROWN 400% A YEAR IN MONROE COUNTY. SO WHAT'S YOUR BATTLE PLAN TO DO THIS? WHAT'S WORKING?

>> WELL, I KNOW WHAT'S WORKING FOR A LOT OF OUR CONTRACTORS IS DEVELOPING PARTNERSHIPS. WE'RE VERY PLEASED TO BE WORKING WITH ROCHESTER HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION TO DEVELOP THEIR CARPENTRY TRAINING PROGRAM, REALLY DESIGNED FOR THEIR CONTRACTOR MEMBERS AND THEIR PROSPECTUS MEMBERS TO ASSIST THEM IN DEVELOPING THE SKILL BASE OF THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE HIRING ON, NOT ONLY IN FRAMING, YOU KNOW, AND FINISHED CONCRETE BUT WITH THE HOPES THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO EXPAND THOSE TRAINING PROGRAMS AND REALLY CUSTOMIZE THE TRAINING FOR THAT PARTICULAR MARKET, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING.

>> Gary: YOU'RE JUST LAUNCHING SOMETHING, AREN'T YOU?

>> RIGHT. WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM. WE HOPE TO HAVE THE PROGRAM OFF THE GROUND BY THE MIDDLE OF SEPTEMBER. WE'VE CERTIFIED CONSTRUCTORS AND CONTRACTORS THROUGH THEIR MEMBERSHIP AND THEY'RE NOW CERTIFIED THROUGH THE NATIONAL CENTER TO BE TEACHERS AND WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THE TREMENDOUS SUPPORT FROM THE INDUSTRY BECAUSE THEY REALLY -- THEY UNDERSTAND THAT IF THEY DON'T DO SOME TRAINING AND THEY DON'T FORMALIZE THE TRAINING, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY STUFF GOING ON OUT THERE ON THE JOB, REALLY GOOD STUFF. THEY NEED TO FORMALIZE A LITTLE BIT, GIVE IT SOME STRUCTURE SO THE STUDENTS UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'VE LEARNED AND CAN IDENTIFY WHAT THEY'VE LEARNED BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO HAVE PRIDE AND UNDERSTANDING IN WHAT YOU ARE AND TO BE CONSIDERED A REAL TRADESMAN. SO I'M REAL THRILLED FOR THAT PARTNERSHIP.

>> Gary: I'M STRUCK WITH THAT AND WHAT TOM SAID, TOO, ABOUT FOR THE FIRST TIME, I'VE NEVER HEARD IT PUT IN TERMS OF "CAREER." I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT YOU GO FROM JOB TO JOB TO JOB TO JOB, IFFY TYPE OF LIFE. BUT THE IDEA OF MAKING -- SELLING THIS AS YOUR CAREER IS A DEFINITE --

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IN THE BUILDING TRADE, THE TERM JOURNEYMAN REALLY WAS COINED IN THE LAST -- TWO CENTURIES AGO, AND THE CONCEPT IS THAT, BEFORE THE REVOLUTION RIGHT ON UP, A JOURNEYMAN WAS A PERSON WHO TRAVELED FROM AREA TO AREA, JOB TO JOB GEOGRAPHICALLY. THAT'S REALLY STOPPED. TAKE RONN'S TRADE. THERE WERE PROBABLY 50 LOCAL UNIONS 30 YEARS AGO IN THE BRICKLAYERS IN NEW YORK STATE. TODAY YOU'VE GOT A THIRD OF THAT PROBABLY. AND THAT CONSOLIDATION, THAT CHANGE NOT ONLY IN THE ORGANIZED SECTOR BUT IN THE WAY PEOPLE THINK AND ACT. YOU CAN GET IN A CAR TODAY AND BE IN SYRACUSE TO WORK TOMORROW OR WORK THIS AFTERNOON, WITH NO PROBLEM, BE BACK TONIGHT FOR DINNER. THAT'S A DIFFERENT KIND OF WORLD.

>> Gary: LET ME PUT IT OUT THERE RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE WHEN WE TALK TO YOUNGER FOLKS ABOUT THIS, I MEAN, THE FIRST THING THAT CAME TO MY MIND, WELL, HOW MUCH? ARE THESE LIKE LOW-PAYING JOBS OR WHAT? CAN YOU GIVE ME AN IDEA? I'M AN APPRENTICE. WHAT CAN I LOOK FORWARD TO MAKING AN HOUR? IT'S STILL PRICED BY HOUR?

>> WE START OUR APPRENTICES OFF, THEIR ENVELOPE PAY, THEIR BASE RATE, IT'S AT JUST ABOUT $11 AN HOUR. IT'S $10.90-SOME-CENTS AND CHANGE. THERE'S BENEFITS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THERE. THERE'S -- THEY START OFF IMMEDIATELY WITH A HEALTH AND WELFARE PACKAGE, WHICH AFFORDS THEM TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE INSURANCE, HEALTH INSURANCE FOR THEMSELVES. AS THEY MOVE ONWARD IN THEIR APPRENTICESHIP, IN THEIR SECOND AND THIRD YEAR, THEY START WITH THEIR RETIREMENT. THEY HAVE, THROUGH OUR INTERNATIONAL, THEY HAVE A PENSION PLAN. THEY ALSO HAVE A LOCAL PENSION PLAN. AND THEN WHEN THEY'RE ALMOST OUT OF THEIR APPRENTICESHIP, THEY START WITH ANOTHER PLAN, WHICH IS AN ANNUITY, IT'S LIKE A 401 "K." BY THE TIME THAT THEY'RE A MECHANIC OR JOURNEYMAN, AND I LAUGH BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT OF OUR YOUNG MEMBERS, THEY LOOK AT JOURNEYMAN AND THEY SAY JOURNEYMAN? WHY DO YOU CALL US JOURNEYMEN? STRICTLY WHAT TOM WAS SAYING. YEARS BACK YOU HAD TO JOURNEY TO WORK.

>> JOURNEY TO WORK.

>> THEY HAVE THEY'RE HARD-PRESSED TO WANT TO JOURNEY TO WORK.

>> Gary: SO STARTING OUT ON THE BLOCKS, YOU'RE AT 11 AND CHANGE WITH BENEFITS. THAT'S NOTHING TO SNEEZE AT COMING OUT OF THE BLOCKS.

>> I WOULDN'T THINK SO.

>> Gary: HOW HIGH CAN YOU GO? SAY HE'S A BRICKLAYER.

>> RIGHT NOW OUR JOURNEYMEN OUT THERE THAT ARE WORKING ON THE WALL, THEIR TOTAL PACKAGE IS CLOSE TO $34 AN HOUR. AND JUST A YOUNG PERSON COMING OUT OF THE -- HIS APPRENTICESHIP, MAY HE BE 22 OR 32, YOU'RE TALKING, OH, WHAT IS IT? IT'S CLOSE TO $28 AN HOUR, TOTAL PACKAGE.

>> Gary: THAT'S...

>> $50, $60,000 A YEAR TO WORK IN THE TRADES.

>> EASILY.

>> Gary: WHOA. LET'S NOT GLOSS OVER THAT. 50, 60-K. IS THAT TRUE?

>> SURE. ABSOLUTELY. BECAUSE THE INDUSTRY REALLY HAS HAD TO RESPOND TO THE SHORTAGE, AND THE WAY THE INDUSTRY DOES THAT, TO ATTRACT AND RETAIN GOOD EMPLOYEES, IS TO DO THE THINGS THAT ARE RIGHT, AND THE EMPLOYERS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK DIRECTLY WITH THEIR EMPLOYEES, GIVE THEM GOOD WAGES, GOOD BENEFIT PROGRAMS, GOOD TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES, PROVIDE A SAFE ENVIRONMENT. YOU KNOW, THAT'S A RESPECTABLE LIVING AND IT IS A CAREER.

>> Gary: 50, 60-K IS A CAREER.

>> THAT'S HOW BAD PEOPLE'S PERCEPTIONS ARE. ABOUT FIVE-AND-A-HALF YEARS AGO, WE BOTH -- OR THREE OF US I THINK EVEN KNOW THIS SITUATION. IN ONE OF THESE PRESENTED SCHOOL CAREER THINGS, THERE WAS A PIPE FITTER MAKING A PRESENTATION IN ONE OF THE LOCAL SCHOOLS TO A CLASS. AND HE GOT ASKED, WELL, WHAT DO YOU MAKE? HE ANSWERED, WELL, MY WAGE IS GROSS FOR THE YEAR LAST YEAR WAS ABOUT $65,000. THE TEACHER THAT WAS IN THE ROOM INTERRUPTED HIM AND CALLED HIM A LIAR, BUSED ALL THE STUDENTS OUT OF THE WAY. SHE WOULD NOT BELIEVE AND MOST PEOPLE WOULD NOT BELIEVE THE POSSIBILITIES. BUT TO GO FROM MOST OF THE TILE SETTERS IN ROCHESTER AREA HAVE, FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS, WORKED IF THEY WANTED TO MORE THAN 2,000 HOURS A YEAR, MORE THAN FULL-TIME.

>> OVERTIME.

>> Gary: WE HAVE A MINUTE LEFT. I WANT TO GIVE YOU EACH 20 SECONDS. WHAT'S NEXT ON YOUR PLATE TO MAKE THIS A GO? WHAT'S YOUR GOAL? >> OUR GOAL, THE CONSTRUCTION TRADING CENTER AND EDUCATION AFFILIATE OF ABC IS COMPLETELY COMMITTED TO EXPANDING OUR PARTNERSHIPS WITH THE ROCHESTER HOME BUILDERS' ASSOCIATION, WORKING WITH MINORITIES AND COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS, ROCHESTER HOUSING AUTHORITY AND ACROSS THE STATES. WE NEED TO GET KIDS INVOLVED IN THE CAREER OF CONSTRUCTION.

>> STARTING RIGHT IN THE VERY BEGINNING, BACK IN THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL OR EVEN BEFORE, RIGHT ON THROUGH INTO THE COLLEGE LEVEL, SPENDING TENS AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TRYING TO LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THE TRUTH IS AND WHAT THE OPPORTUNITY IS.

>> Gary: RONN?

>> EXACTLY WHAT TOM WAS SAYING, THROUGH THE SCHOOLS, WE WORK HARD WITH A LOT OF THE B.O.C.E.S. IN THE HIGH SCHOOLS AND ALSO THROUGH THE SOUTHERN TIER IN WESTERN NEW YORK, PULLING IN MORE AND MORE PEOPLE THAT ALREADY ARE WORKING WITH THE TOOLS.

>> Gary: I CAN JUST FINISH AND JUST SAY THAT IT'S A REMARKABLE TOOL. WE HAVE UNION AND NON-UNION, I MEAN, SIDE BY SIDE. (Laughter) PULLING THE SAME WHEEL AND ADDRESSING THE SAME NEED AND CONCERN.

>> GOOD FOR ALL OF US.

>> Gary: GREAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS SEGMENT OF "NEED TO KNOW" AND DISCUSSION. EVERYONE, I WISH TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME. I KNOW YOU NEED TO GET BACK TO WORK. IN A MOMENT WE'LL BE JOINED BY 1370 CONNECTION'S BOB SMITH. FIRST, IF YOU'D LIKE MORE INFORMATION ON LABOR CONDITIONS, LOG ONTO THESE WEB SITES FOR HELP. (Music) WITH ME NOW IS BOB SMITH, HOST OF 1370 CONNECTION ON AM 1370 IN ROCHESTER. BOB IS WORKING ON SIMILAR STORIES. BUT I LIKE TALKING TO BOB BECAUSE HE TALKS TO ROCHESTER EVERY SINGLE DAY BETWEEN TWELVE AND TWO ON AM 1370. SO THERE'S A GUY WHO HAS HIS FINGER ON THE PULSE AND, BOB, 50, $60,000 FOR A CAREER. I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT.

>> WELL, IN A SENSE I'M SURE A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE THINKING, MAN, AM I IN THE WRONG BUSINESS! BUT EVEN LEAVING THAT ASIDE, WHAT WE HEARD FROM THE FOLKS IN THE CONSTRUCTION TRADES IN THE LEADERSHIP POSITIONS AND VARIOUS ASPECTS OF IT IS HARDLY UNIQUE TO THEIR BUSINESS. THE FACT IS WE HAVE GOT A LOT OF AREAS OF THE ECONOMY WHERE JOBS THAT ARE ATTRACTIVE JOBS ON THE FACE OF IT IN TERMS OF PAY AND BENEFITS AND WORKING CONDITIONS ARE GOING BEGGING RIGHT NOW. WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT THE LAYOFFS IN ASSEMBLY LINE AND IN MIDDLE MANAGEMENT, BUT THAT MASKS A REAL PROBLEM IN THE OTHER DIRECTION ELSEWHERE IN THE ECONOMY, AND IT'S HARDLY LIMITED TO CONSTRUCTION.

>> Gary: BOB, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN THE PAST. THE MEDIA DOES CONCENTRATE ON STORIES ABOUT WORK FORCE REDUCTIONS AND LAYOFFS, ET CETERA; AND NOW WE COME HERE. WE HAVE FIND THAT THEY'RE JUST BEGGING FOR PEOPLE TO WORK OR SOME JOBS RIGHT HERE. HAVE YOU BEEN HEARING THAT IN YOUR CONVERSATION IN ALL THE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS YOU'VE DONE?

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY. BIG SHORTAGES IN TOOL AND DIE, IN SKILLED TRADES IN THAT AREA. BIG SHORTAGES IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WHO CAN WRITE GOOD COMPUTER CODE. BIG SHORTAGES IN TERMS OF HIGHLY SPECIALIZED TECHNICAL PEOPLE IN THE ENGINEERING FIELD. AND THIS IS TRUE OF COMPANIES THAT IN MOST AREAS ARE LETTING PEOPLE GO, BUT THEY'RE STILL SHORT OF PEOPLE AND THEY'RE HIRING PEOPLE. AND THAT INCLUDES THE BIGGEST NAMES IN ROCHESTER INDUSTRY WHO WANT MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRAINED ENGINEERS, WHO ARE TRAINED WRITERS IN COMPUTER CODE, WHO ARE TRAINED TOOL AND DIE, WHO ARE TRAINED IN CONSTRUCTION FOR THEIR OWN PROJECTS. SO THERE IS A MISMATCH TO A CERTAIN DEGREE BETWEEN THE AVAILABLE SKILL POOL AND THE NEED.

>> Gary: NOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS VERY SAME ISSUE FAIRLY SOON.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Gary: WHEN'S THE PROGRAM ON AND WHAT'S IT ABOUT?

>> WELL, IT'S GOING TO BE FRIDAY, JULY 6th IN THE NOON HOUR. I'M GOING TO BE TALKING WITH KEN GARDINER OF THE CENTRE FOR GOVERNMENTAL RESEARCH, WHO IS ONE OF THE ECONOMIC GURUS OF TRENDS IN THE AREA. AND HE HAS BEEN LOOKING AT THIS PROBLEM IN THE UPSTATE NEW YORK REGION EXTENSIVELY AND, YES, HE DOES CONFIRM THAT THERE ARE PROBLEMS. WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THOSE IN SOME DEPTH TO SEE WHERE THEY ARE. AND ALSO WE'LL BE TALKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT.

>> Gary: ALWAYS, BOB SMITH TALKING TO ROCHESTER EVERY DAY FROM NOON TO TWO ON WXXI AM 1370. BOB, THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US. AND THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW." JOIN US NEXT WEEK AS WE LOOK AT ROCHESTER'S ENERGY SOURCES AND WHERE WE'LL BE GETTING OUR ENERGY IN THE FUTURE. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

(Music)

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