>>
Gary Walker: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW," WHAT IF THERE WAS
A STATE WHERE LAWMAKERS HAD TO PASS THE BUDGET JUST TO BEGIN
BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS? YOU GUESSED IT. IT'S NEW YORK. CALL IT
BASELINE, AUSTERE OR BARE BONES, LEGISLATORS FINALLY PASSED
THE BUDGET THIS MONTH WITHOUT THE HELP AND SUPPORT OF THE GOVERNOR,
BUT NOW THE GOVERNOR IS PLANNING ON SUING OVER THE NEW BUDGET'S
CONSTITUTIONALITY. THE POLITICS ARE FIERCE. BUT LOST IN ALL
OF THIS IS HOW IT AFFECTS US. WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT TONIGHT.
PLUS, IT'S BEEN A HOT, HOT SUMMER, EVEN WITH AIR-CONDITIONING.
EVER WONDER HOW ROCHESTERIANS OF YESTERYEAR KEPT COOL? WE'LL
SHOW YOU. ALBANY BUDGET BATTLES COMING UP NEXT ON "NEED TO KNOW."
>>
IT'S OUR MONEY. WE SENT IT TO ALBANY AND WE OUGHT NOT TO HAVE
TO GO THROUGH SO MUCH DIFFICULTY GETTING IT BACK AS WE GO THROUGH
EVERY YEAR...
>>
THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH NEWS
PROGRAM. "NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS, EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.
>>
"NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS JONES FOUNDATION,
BY DORSCHEL LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>>
Gary Walker: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M GARY WALKER. THIS
YEAR'S STATE BUDGET PROCESS IS GOING WHERE NO NEW YORK BUDGET
HAS GONE BEFORE. WITHIN HOURS OF BREAKING THE RECORD FOR PASSING
A BUDGET, THE LEGISLATURE APPROVED A $79.6 BILLION BASELINE
PLAN FOR NEW YORKERS, BASELINE IN THE SENSE IT HOLDS SPENDING
AT LAST YEAR'S LEVELS WITH NO NEW EXPENDITURES. PASSAGE OF THIS
BUDGET IS SEEN AS A POLITICAL GAME OF CHICKEN. THE LEGISLATURE
AND GOVERNOR PATAKI HAVE BEEN IN A SHOWDOWN OVER BUDGET SPENDING
SINCE THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED HIS $83-PLUS BILLION PLAN IN JANUARY.
THE ASSEMBLY'S PLAN CALLS FOR MORE THAN $2 BILLION MORE IN SPENDING.
IN A MOVE TO BRING THE GOVERNOR TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE, THE
LEGISLATURE PASSED A BUDGET ROUGHLY $4 BILLION LESS THAN THE
GOVERNOR'S PLAN. LEGISLATORS READILY ADMIT THEIR BUDGET WILL
CRUNCH NEW YORKERS, THEY HOPE TO THE POINT THAT PATAKI WILL
BE FORCED TO NEGOTIATE AN ADDITIONAL SPENDING PLAN. JUST THIS
WEEK, THE GOVERNOR SAID HE PLANS TO SUE THE LEGISLATURE OVER
THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF HOW THEY DRAFTED AND PASSED THEIR BUDGET.
AS A LEGISLATURE AND A GOVERNOR POSITION THEMSELVES FOR MORE
NEGOTIATIONS, THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK ARE BRACING THEMSELVES
FOR THE WORST: MORE SPECIFICALLY SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND NOT-FOR-PROFIT
GROUPS WHO RELY ON STATE FUNDING. "NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINS
ILLUSTRATES JUST WHO GETS HURT UNDER THE NEW BUDGET.
>>
IT'S CALLED A BASELINE BUDGET; IT'S CALLED AN AUSTERITY BUDGET.
BUT I THINK IT REALLY IS -- THE BEST DESCRIPTION IS A BARE BONES
BUDGET. BARE BONES MEANS NO MORE MONEY. AND IT HAS AN ENORMOUS
EFFECT ON THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE, I BELIEVE, IN THE COMMUNITY.
>> Matt Cummings: THAT STATEMENT SUMMARIZES WIDESPREAD REACTION
TO THE LEGISLATURE'S PASSAGE OF THEIR BASELINE BUDGET. ESTHER
MALTESE IS PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL CHAPTER OF THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN
VOTERS. SHE SAYS WHILE LEADERS IN ALBANY PLAY POLITICS, THE
BUDGET WILL HURT PEOPLE WHO NEED STATE SUPPORT THE MOST.
>>
LESS MONEY FOR AIDS ROCHESTER, AND THEY HAVE SUCH AN OUTSTANDING
PROGRAM THERE. LIFESPAN, WHICH HAS INTERVENTION SERVICES FOR
ELDER ABUSE; SUPERFUND WHICH HAS TO DO WITH TOXIC WASTE CLEANUP;
THE CATHOLIC DIOCESE SERVICES, DAY CARE, FOOD PANTRIES, AND
JUST FOOD PANTRIES IN GENERAL.
>>
Matt Cummings: MALTESE SAYS THE PROBLEM WITH THE BASELINE BUDGET
IS IT HOLDS SPENDING AT LAST YEAR'S LEVELS. AFTER SEPTEMBER
15th, THE BUDGET WOULD ELIMINATE ABOUT $54 BILLION WORTH OF
APPROPRIATIONS MEANT FOR SOCIAL PROGRAMS APPROVED IN PREVIOUS
YEARS. THAT IMPACT WILL BE FELT MOST BY SCHOOLS AND NOT-FOR-PROFIT
AGENCIES.
>>
NO NEW CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS, KINDERGARTEN PROGRAMS, TUTORIAL
PROGRAMS FOR STUDENTS IN SCHOOL DISTRICTS, DAY CARE PROGRAMS...
NO NEW MONEY.
>>
IT REALLY IS ABSOLUTELY AMAZING THAT THE STATE CONTINUES TO
OPERATE IN THIS HIGHLY IRRESPONSIBLE AND RECKLESS FASHION. >>
Matt Cummings: MAYOR WILLIAM JOHNSON IS FRUSTRATED OVER HOW
THE CURRENT BUDGET PROCESS WORKS.
>>
THE SYSTEM THAT'S DEVELOPED IN ALBANY FORCES YOU TO BE BEGGARS,
TO GO THERE CONSTANTLY TO MAKE YOUR CASE. VERY DEMEANING. IT'S
OUR MONEY. WE SEND IT TO ALBANY AND WE OUGHT NOT TO HAVE TO
GO THROUGH AS MUCH DIFFICULTY GETTING IT BACK AS WE HAVE TO
GO THROUGH EVERY YEAR.
>>
I THINK IT'S EXTREMELY IRRESPONSIBLE, AND I BELIEVE THAT IT'S
BASED ON VOTES AND WHO IS RUBBING WHOSE BACK, AND PEOPLE'S LIVES
ARE AT STAKE HERE. THE GAME-PLAYING IS UNCONSCIONABLE.
>>
Matt Cummings: SILVESTRONE IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF AIDS
ROCHESTER. SHE SAYS THE CURRENT BUDGET DOESN'T PROVIDE $100,000
TO HER AGENCY THEY WERE EXPECTING FROM THE STATE AND PUTS THEIR
FUNDING LEVELS BACK TO WHERE THEY WERE TWO YEARS AGO, FORCING
THEM TO MAKE DIFFICULT SPENDING CHOICES. >> DO YOU TAKE THE
CUTS OUT OF THE HIDES OF PEOPLE THAT ARE INFECTED OR DO YOU
TAKE THE CUTS OUT OF THE HIDES OF PEOPLE WHO MAY YET GET INFECTED
THAT WE COULD PREVENT?
>>
Matt Cummings: IF NO ADDITIONAL FUNDING IS ALLOCATED, STATEWIDE
AIDS-RELATED AGENCIES STAND TO LOSE ABOUT $8 MILLION, MONEY
NEEDED FOR HEALTH-RELATED SERVICES THAT AIDS AND H.I.V.-POSITIVE
CLIENTS NEED IN ORDER TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF NEW MEDICAL TREATMENTS.
>>
THOSE FUNDS SUPPORT CASE MANAGEMENT TO H.I.V.-POSITIVE PEOPLE
AND THEIR LOVED ONES, HOUSING ASSISTANCE, EMERGENCY FUNDS, FOOD
PROGRAMS, TRANSPORTATION, MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS. AND ON THE
OTHER SIDE, WE HAVE THE WHOLE CONTINUUM OF PREVENTION SERVICES
TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM GETTING HIV, SO IT CAN MEAN HIV COUNSELING
AND TESTING; IT CAN MEAN WALKING DOWN THE STREETS WHERE PEOPLE
ARE AT RISK GIVING THEM CONDOMS, HAVING THEM EXCHANGE SYRINGES...
THE WHOLE CONTINUUM OF PROGRAMS THAT WE DO TO VERY AGGRESSIVELY
MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE HIGH-RISK DO NOT GET HIV REGARDLESS
OF WHAT YOUR VALUES ARE AROUND THAT, IT'S GOING TO SAVE THE
TAXPAYERS DOLLARS AND IT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO SAVE LIVES IN
THE LONG RUN.
>>
Matt Cummings: SILVESTRONE SAYS BY PASSING A BASELINE BUDGET,
LEGISLATORS ARE PLAYING A DANGEROUS GAME WITH PUBLIC SAFETY.
>>
THIS IS A HUGE PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE. LEGISLATORS NEED TO RECOGNIZE
THE CONSEQUENCES OF CONTRIBUTING TO THIS PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS
IF THEY DON'T PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THE NEEDS ARE.
>>
Matt Cummings: THE CITY HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS. THEY ARE HOPING
TO RECEIVE $4.2 MILLION IN STATE FUNDING FOR THIS YEAR'S $350
MILLION CITY BUDGET, MONEY DESIGNATED FOR ROAD WORK AND CONSTRUCTION
PROJECTS, BUT THAT MONEY IS NOT PART OF THIS YEAR'S BASELINE
BUDGET. WHILE LEADERS IN ALBANY NEGOTIATE ADDITIONAL SPENDING,
CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS ARE ON HOLD UNTIL AT LEAST SEPTEMBER.
JOHNSON SAYS DELAYS WILL COME AT A PRICE.
>>
YOU'VE GOT VERY IMPORTANT PROJECTS THAT ARE EITHER DELAYED OR
COMPLETELY ELIMINATED. YOU'VE GOT THE UNCERTAINTY. YOU'VE GOT
PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO MAKE RATIONAL DECISIONS AND THE SCHOOL
DISTRICTS WHO CAN'T REALLY MAKE CONTRACTUAL COMMITMENTS TO TEACHERS
BECAUSE THEY REALLY DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO
PAY THEM. YOU HAVE AGENCIES THAT MAY HAVE DECIDED JUST TO SUSPEND
SERVICES, SO THERE COULD BE PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING DENIED BASIC
SERVICES BECAUSE OF THE STATE'S CONTINUING TARDINESS IN PASSING
THE BUDGET. WE'LL JOIN THAT CATEGORY IF THERE IS NO BUDGET,
SAY, BY THE END OF SEPTEMBER BECAUSE WE HAVE, AS I SAY, ABOUT
$4 MILLION ON THE TABLE.
>>
Matt Cummings: THE MAYOR AND MALTESE AGREE ON WHERE THE BLAME
LIES.
>>
THE STATE UNFORTUNATELY HAS NOT BEEN TOO RELIABLE IN MANY OF
THESE INSTANCES. WE END UP GETTING THE MONEY EVENTUALLY, BUT
WE WOULD MUCH RATHER HAVE IT SOONER THAN LATER, AND IT COMES
WAY TOO LATE.
>>
ACCOUNTABILITY IS THE KEY WORD, ACCOUNTABILITY. I DON'T REALLY
THINK THAT THE BUDGET IS WORKABLE IF IT'S NOT FULFILLING THE
NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. IT APPEARS TO BE A VERY
POORLY PLAYED, TRANSPARENT CHESS GAME.
(Music)
>>
Gary Walker: KEEP SEPTEMBER 15th IN MIND WHEN WATCHING THE BUDGET
PROCESS UNFOLD. AS MATT TOLD YOU, $54 BILLION IN APPROPRIATIONS,
MAINLY FOR SOCIAL PROGRAMS, WILL EXPIRE ON THAT DATE. MUCH OF
THAT, $39 BILLION, IS FEDERAL FUNDS EXPERTS FEEL MAY BE DIFFICULT
TO RECOUP. JOINING ME IN STUDIO NOW TO DISCUSS THE BUDGET ARE
BLAIR HORNER OF THE NEW YORK PUBLIC INTEREST RESEARCH GROUP,
A WATCHDOG ORGANIZATION KEEPING AN EYE ON THIS LEGISLATION PROCESS,
AND SARAH LIEBSCHUTZ, A PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF POLITICAL SCIENCE
AT SUNY BROCKPORT AND AN ADJUNCT PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE
AT THE U OF R. THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME. AND I GUESS I
HAVE TO START, LIKE MOST MEDIA HAVE TO START, OKAY, VETERAN
ALBANY WATCHERS, COMPARED TO THE LAST 17 YEARS OF BUDGET FUTILITY,
WHERE DOES THIS YEAR RANK? YOU WANT TO GO FIRST?
>> SURE. I THINK THAT YOU CAN HAVE A SHORT-TERM PERSPECTIVE
ON THIS, AND YOU CAN HAVE A LONG-TERM PERSPECTIVE. I THINK BLAIR
IS PROBABLY BETTER AT THE SHORT-TERM PERSPECTIVE, AND MAYBE
I CAN GIVE THE LONG-TERM PERSPECTIVE, WHICH IS THAT FOR 17 YEARS
WE HAVE HAD LATE BUDGETS. THEY HAVE BEEN LATER AND LATER, AND
IT'S THREE MONTHS AFTER THE BEGINNING OF THE FISCAL YEAR WHEN
WE HAVE A STATE BUDGET. THERE ARE LOTS OF REASONS FOR THIS BUT
VERY BRIEFLY, WE HAVE A LEGISLATURE THAT SINCE THE YEARS OF
ROCKEFELLER HAS THE ABILITY TO GENERATE INFORMATION ON ITS OWN.
IT HAS A LARGE STAFF; IT HAS A LARGE BUDGET, AND SO IN A WAY
IT'S A COUNTERWEIGHT TO THE INSTITUTION OF THE GOVERNOR. AND
ANOTHER FACTOR WHICH I THINK PLAYS INTO THIS IS THAT THE LEGISLATURE
HAS BEEN ASSERTING ITSELF MORE AND MORE OVER THESE YEARS SO
THAT IT DOESN'T TAKE WHAT THE GOVERNOR PRESENTS AS AN EXECUTIVE
BUDGET AND JUST RATIFY IT, AS IT USED TO.
>>
Gary Walker: IT'S MID-AUGUST NOW AND THERE'S STILL NO AGREEMENT
ON REVENUE PROJECTIONS. ALTHOUGH IF WE WAIT A COUPLE MORE MONTHS,
WE'LL JUST LOOK AT THE RECEIPTS AND SEE WHAT THEY WERE. BLAIR,
WHAT'S YOUR TAKE?
>>
WELL, THE POLITICAL FOG OF WAR HASN'T REALLY LIFTED YET, SO
IT'S HARD TO KNOW FOR SURE HOW THIS IS ALL GOING TO PLAY OUT.
BUT THIS LATEST WRINKLE WHERE THE LEGISLATURE IS USING KIND
OF THEIR OWN POLITICAL JUJITSU TO DRAG THE GOVERNOR INTO NEGOTIATIONS
ON THE BUDGET, IT'S EITHER GOING TO TURN OUT TO BE A NEW, INTERESTING
CHAPTER ON HOW BUDGETS GET DONE OR A NEW LEVEL OF DYSFUNCTION.
ONLY TIME WILL TELL. IF INDEED PEOPLE GET DEFUNDED, AS YOUR
SETUP TALKED ABOUT, WHERE GROUPS ARE NOT GETTING THE MONEY THEY
NEED, THEN THIS WILL BE A NEW LEVEL OF DYSFUNCTION. IT'S REALLY
HARD TO TELL RIGHT NOW, AS ALBANY TAKES POLITICAL BRINKMANSHIP
TO A NEW EDGE EVERY SINGLE YEAR APPARENTLY, WHERE THIS IS GOING
TO -- IS THIS ACTUALLY GOING TO PLAY OUT OR FALL OFF THE CLIFF?
>>
Gary Walker: LET ME ASK YOU THIS POLITICALLY. THERE'S A LOT
OF PEOPLE MAY BE WONDERING WHY WOULD THE REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED
SENATE PASS A BUDGET THAT THE LEADER OF THEIR PARTY, THE REPUBLICAN
GOVERNOR, DOES NOT WANT, YET THE REPUBLICAN SENATE SAYS TO THE
REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, "TOUGH! WE'RE GOING TO JOIN WITH THE DEMOCRATS,
OF ALL PEOPLE, AND PASS THIS BUDGET."
>>
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I THINK IN MODERN TIMES WHERE A GOVERNOR
HAS BASICALLY BEEN COMPLETELY ABSENT FROM BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS.
SO WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW REALLY IS A TENSION BETWEEN THE EXECUTIVE
BRANCH AND THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH. THE PARTISANSHIP ELEMENT,
WHICH I THINK WOULD PLAY OUT WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GET INTO THE
ISSUE OF WHAT GETS FUNDED AND WHAT DOESN'T GET FUNDED, YOU'RE
NOT EVEN THERE YET. I THINK THE SENATE REPUBLICANS ARE SO FRUSTRATED
WITH THE GOVERNOR THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING AS A PRIORITY
THE INSTITUTIONAL FIGHT THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW WITH THE EXECUTIVE
BRANCH. IN NEW YORK, WE HAVE A VERY -- A NEW CONSTITUTION --
POWERFUL GOVERNOR. IF THE GOVERNOR IS ABSENT FROM NEGOTIATIONS
ON THE BUDGET, NOTHING HAPPENS. AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE SEEN
FOR MONTHS.
>>
Gary Walker: ISN'T THE LEGISLATURE IN A SENSE SAYING THE GOVERNOR
IS MOOT?
>>
THE GOVERNOR IS NOT MOOT, AND THE LEGISLATURE KNOWS THAT. BUT
I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER ISSUE THAT APPLIES THIS YEAR IN TERMS
OF YOUR QUESTION, WHY ARE THE SENATE REPUBLICANS ENJOINING WITH
THE ASSEMBLY DEMOCRATS TO CHALLENGE THE GOVERNOR? THAT IS BECAUSE,
I THINK, MANY OF THE MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IN THE
SENATE BEGAN TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE MAJORITY LEADER BECAUSE
THEIR SALARIES WERE BEING WITHHELD. AND MAYBE THAT'S HURTING
THEM A LITTLE BIT IN THE POCKETBOOK. I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S
ANY EMBARRASSMENT; I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY SHAME ON THE PART
OF THE LEGISLATORS TO COME IN WITH A LATE BUDGET BECAUSE THEY'RE
NEVER PUNISHED. THE RE-ELECTION RATE OF INCUMBENTS IS ABOUT
100%. SO THERE'S NO PUNISHMENT AT THE POLLS, BUT MAYBE THERE'S
A LITTLE PUNISHMENT THAT THEY'VE FELT PERSONALLY IN THEIR POCKETS.
THEY ENACTED THAT LAW, BY THE WAY, TO WITHHOLD THEIR OWN SALARIES
UNTIL THERE WAS A BUDGET, SO NOW IT'S COME TO PASS.
>>
Gary Walker: I WANT TO GET BACK TO THAT POINT IN A MINUTE, BUT
BEFORE WE JUST LET IT GO AND TALK ONLY ABOUT POLITICS AND ONLY
ABOUT THE CONSTITUTIONALITY, LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT
THEY DID. THEY ACTUALLY PASSED A BUDGET THAT BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION
IS GOING TO HURT A LOT OF FOLKS. LET ME GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF
DETAILS OF IT. $1.5 BILLION FROM WELFARE TO WORK PROGRAMS, NON-EXISTENT;
$240 MILLION FROM ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS; $150 MILLION
FOR ENVIRONMENTAL PROJECTS; $14 MILLION FOR COLLEGE TUTORING,
MENTORING PROGRAMS; CHILD HEALTH PLUS MONEY; TAX CUTS FOR SENIORS
AND BUSINESS; ELIMINATING MONEY FROM HIGH-TECH COMPANIES UPSTATE.
IT GOES ACROSS THE BOARD TO CUT WHAT MANY LAWMAKERS THINK ARE
VERY, VERY KEY TO THEM AND KEY TO THE FUTURE PROJECTS, SO THEY
KNOW IT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE... OR NOT. LET ME ASK YOU THIS:
DO YOU EXPECT A HUE AND CRY FROM ALL THESE SOCIAL SERVICE GROUPS
AND ALL THESE OTHER GROUPS SAYING, "MY GOD, WHAT ARE YOU DOING
TO US?" BUT IN REALITY, CAN THIS BUDGET STAND?
>>
OH, IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE. THAT WOULD BE A NEW LEVEL OF DYSFUNCTION.
IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT THE BUDGET WILL JUST PLAY OUT WHERE
THEY CAN'T COME TO ANY KIND OF AGREEMENT. I DOUBT IT, QUITE
FRANKLY. THE LEGISLATORS ARE RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION NEXT YEAR
IN NEW DISTRICTS BECAUSE REDISTRICTING BRINGS UP RE-ELECTION.
TO BASICALLY FOR EXAMPLE, TO TELL MANY COLLEGE STUDENTS THEY
CAN'T GO TO COLLEGE, TO TELL MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS THEY CAN'T
FUND CERTAIN KINDS OF ADDITIONAL PROGRAMS THAT THEY NEED TO
FUND OR THEY HAVE TO RAISE SCHOOL TAXES, I DON'T THINK THEY
WANT TO DEAL WITH THAT POLITICAL DYNAMITE, BUT I HAVE BEEN FOOLED
BEFORE. EVERY YEAR I THINK THIS IS A NEW LEVEL OF DYSFUNCTION,
AND THEN THEY MAKE ME KNOW THAT THERE'S A NEW LEVEL EVERY YEAR.
SO I MEAN --
>> Gary Walker: AND YOU HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A FEW YEARS.
>>
THAT'S RIGHT. THIS IS MY 17th SESSION.
>>
Gary Walker: I USED TO SAY YOU WERE BORN IN THE SENATE CHAMBERS
IN CHINOS AND A BLUE SPORTSCOAT AND YOU JUST GREW UP THERE.
BUT AGAIN, YOU'RE EVEN SURPRISED BY THIS LEVEL OF --
>>
WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY. I TALKED TO THE LAWMAKERS AND SAID,
"WHAT'S THE STRATEGY HERE?" THERE DOESN'T REALLY APPEAR TO BE
ONE. THEY VIEWED IT AS THEY HAD TWO ALTERNATIVES: ONE WAS TO
CONTINUE TO DO THESE ONE-MONTH OR SHORT-TERM EXTENDERS, WHICH
BASICALLY GIVES THE GOVERNOR WHAT HE WANTS, OR THEY COULD TRY
TO BRING HIM TO THE TABLE. AND SO I THINK THEY VIEWED IT AS
THE LESSER OF TWO HORRIBLE OPTIONS. HERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY WHERE
THEY GET PAID AND THEY CAN DRAG THE GOVERNOR BACK INTO THE FRAY
AND MAYBE COME UP WITH A BETTER BUDGET. AND WHO KNOWS? THIS
MAY TURN OUT TO BE A PROTOTYPE FOR HOW THEY DO BUDGETS IN THE
FUTURE. YOU CAN SEE IF THE GOVERNOR DOES COME TO THE TABLE AND
THEY WORK OUT SOMETHING, NEXT YEAR YOU COULD DO A BARE BONES,
ARGUABLY ANYWAY, IN MARCH AND TRY TO BANG OUT THE REST OF IT
OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS. IN THE OLD DAYS, THERE USED TO BE
A SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET IN JUNE AND WHO KNOWS? MAYBE THAT'S WHAT
WE'LL GO BACK TO. BUT IT ALL HINGES ON THEM ACTUALLY GETTING
THEIR ACT TOGETHER IN THE NEXT MONTH, AND I THINK THAT'S THE
BIG, OPEN QUESTION.
>>
THERE'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS REALLY REMARKABLE: HAVING
BEEN A VIEWER OF NEW YORK STATE POLITICS FOR A LOT OF YEARS
AND BEING VERY AWARE THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAD TO TAKE THE EXECUTIVE
BRANCH TO COURT IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO ALLOCATE, APPROPRIATE
FEDERAL FUNDS, I FIND IT ABSOLUTELY REMARKABLE THAT THIS YEAR
THE LEGISLATURE IS NOT APPROPRIATING ALL OF THE WELFARE FUNDS,
THE MEDICAID FUNDS... I JUST THINK THAT'S REMARKABLE. THERE'S
ANOTHER POINT THAT I THINK HAS TO BE MADE AND IT FOLLOWS A POINT
THAT BLAIR MADE. WE DO HAVE A POWERFUL GOVERNOR, A POWERFUL
INSTITUTION OF THE GOVERNOR BY VIRTUE OF THE CONSTITUTION, BUT
THERE IS NO STIPULATION IN THE STATE CONSTITUTION THAT THE LEGISLATURE
HAS TO DO ANYTHING IN A TIMELY FASHION ONCE THE GOVERNOR MEETS
HIS OBLIGATIONS TO PRESENT THE EXECUTIVE BUDGET. SO FROM THAT
PERSPECTIVE, THE LEGISLATURE IS PERFECTLY WITHIN ITS CONSTITUTIONAL
BOUNDS TO PASS THESE BUDGETS LATER AND LATER. THERE'S ANOTHER
POINT AND THAT IS THAT THE COMPTROLLER CERTIFIED THAT THIS IS
A LEGITIMATE BUDGET, SO TECHNICALLY, CONSTITUTIONALLY, IT COULD
STAND. OF COURSE, THE REALITY IS THAT IT WON'T BECAUSE THERE
ARE TOO MANY INTEREST GROUPS AND INDIVIDUALS WHOM THEY SERVE
WHO ARE GOING TO BE HURT.
>>
Gary Walker: IS THIS A CONSTITUTION -- THIS GOVERNOR SUING THE
LEGISLATURE, SHOULD HE LAUNCH HIS LAWSUIT THIS WEEK, IS THIS
A CRISIS OF SORTS OR JUST AN EVOLUTION OF POLITICS IN NEW YORK?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE ISSUES CHANGE FROM TIME TO TIME. SO IN
THAT SENSE I GUESS WE COULD CALL IT AN EVOLUTION. BUT I THINK
WE REALLY HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TWO BRANCHES
OF GOVERNMENT -- THE GOVERNOR IS STILL IN MY VIEW DOMINANT IN
TERMS OF SETTING THE TERMS OF THE AGENDA, BUT THE LEGISLATURE
IS CERTAINLY MUCH MORE POWERFUL IN TERMS OF ENACTING THE BUDGET,
APPROPRIATING PROGRAMS AND DETERMINING ITSELF THE PRIORITIES
FOR THE STATE. SO WE HAVE NEARLY TWO CO-EQUAL BRANCHES NOW.
>>
Gary Walker: LET'S TALK A LITTLE -- AND THAT COULD BE REALLY
CHANGING WHAT NEW YORK STATE GOVERNMENT IS DOING. ANOTHER WAY
TO LOOK AT IT, TOO, IS OF COURSE CYNICALLY. YOU HAD MENTIONED
EARLIER THAT ONE THING THIS BASELINE BUDGET DOES IS WITHHOLDS
FUNDS FROM EVERYBODY ELSE BUT OPENS UP THE LAWMAKERS' CHECKS
THAT WERE BEING STORED AND NOT GIVEN OUT. ALL OF A SUDDEN, BOOM...
JUST IN TIME FOR, IF YOU LOOK AT IT CYNICALLY, VACATION TIME,
AND ALL THE MONEY COMES ROLLING BACK IN TO THE LEGISLATORS.
THEY GET TO GO OFF AND GET PAID. CYNICALLY LOOKING AT THIS,
YOU DON'T EXPECT FOR US TO HAVE MUCH OF A BUDGET SITUATION NEXT
YEAR BECAUSE IT'S AN ELECTION YEAR. THAT'S THE CONVENTIONAL
WISDOM. YOU HAVE TO GET OUT AND YOU HAVE TO CAMPAIGN, SO THAT
MAKES THIS YEAR, PARTICULARLY LOOKING AT THE LONG-HAUL, SUCH
A CYNICAL PROCESS.
>>
I THINK THIS HAS GOT TO BE SEEN IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT THREE
YEARS AGO, IN 1998, THE LEGISLATURE ENACTED A BUDGET. IT WAS
MAINLY THE ASSEMBLY THAT ADDED TO THAT BUDGET, AND GOVERNOR
PATAKI VETOED OVER $1 BILLION OF ITEMS THAT MAINLY THE ASSEMBLY
WANTED. THAT ACTUALLY ENHANCES THE CURIOSITY AS TO WHY THE SENATE
WENT ALONG WITH THE ASSEMBLY THIS YEAR. BUT NOT ONLY HAVE THE
LEGISLATORS NOW GOT THEIR BACK PAY, THEY GOT SOME TIME FOR VACATION.
I HAVE EVEN READ THAT SOME OF THEM WERE GROUSING ABOUT THE FACT
THAT THEY COULDN'T GET AWAY WITH THEIR FAMILIES. WHO KNOWS HOW
PERSONAL THIS IS, HOW POLITICAL THIS IS, HOW INSTITUTIONAL IT
IS? BUT I THINK ALL THREE ARE INVOLVED.
>>
Gary Walker: IN THE SHORT PERIOD OF TIME LEFT, BLAIR, LET ME
ASK YOU THIS: THE SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET -- YOU'RE SITTING AT A
TABLE NEGOTIATING WITH SOMEBODY WHO IS SUING YOU. WHAT IS THAT
GOING TO DO TO THE DYNAMICS OF THIS?
>>
I DON'T THINK -- I THINK THE SUIT IS KIND OF A SIDE SHOW TO
THE MAIN EVENT. THE MAIN EVENT IS GOING TO BE HOW DO YOU DEAL
WITH THE SEPTEMBER 15th DEADLINE, THE $50 BILLION OF "REAPPROPES,"
AND THE OTHER ISSUE IS AUTO INSURANCE, MEDICAL MALPRACTICE INSURANCE,
OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE TIED NOW TO THE BUDGET AND HAVE TO BE
DEALT WITH BECAUSE THE LAWS EXPIRE OR THE PROGRAMS RUN OUT OF
MONEY. SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY NEGOTIATION. THE LAWSUIT I DON'T
THINK WILL BE A FACTOR. ASSUMING IT GETS FILED, WHICH IT PROBABLY
WILL, IT WILL TAKE TIME TO PLAY OUT. AND I THINK IT'S A SIDE
SHOW TO THE MAIN EVENT.
>>
Gary Walker: OKAY. BLAIR HORNER OF NYPIRG AND SARAH LIEBSCHUTZ
OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER AND BROCKPORT, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
THAT'S THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS DISCUSSION. AGAIN, THANKS TO
BOTH OF MY GUESTS FOR JOINING US, BLAIR COMING ALL THE WAY IN
FROM ALBANY TODAY. NOW LET'S TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THIS SUMMER'S
HEAT. IF YOU FOLLOWED THE BEST ADVICE GIVEN DURING THE HEAT
WAVE, YOU WENT WHERE THERE WAS AIR-CONDITIONING. BUT WHAT WOULD
YOU HAVE DONE A CENTURY AGO? HOW DID ROCHESTER SURVIVE A HOT
AND STICKY SUMMER? WYATT DOREMUS LOOKS BACK AT HOW EARLIER ROCHESTERIANS
KEPT THEIR COOL.
>>
Wyatt Doremus: THERE'S NOTHING NEW ABOUT HEAT, HOWEVER RARE
IT MAY SEEM IN ROCHESTER, BUT IT'S BEEN LESS THAN A CENTURY
SINCE THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE INSTALLED WHAT WAS THEN CALLED
MANUFACTURED AIR. BY 1906, THEY WERE CALLING IT AIR-CONDITIONING.
MOVIE THEATRES USED IT AS A GIMMICK TO PULL IN THE PUBLIC. OTHER
LARGE-SCALE USE WAS STILL YEARS OFF. IT WASN'T UNTIL AFTER WORLD
WAR II THAT HOME OWNERS COULD OR WOULD EVEN THINK ABOUT INSTALLING
THEIR OWN MACHINE. SO WHAT DID ROCHESTER DO IN THE CENTURY AND
MORE BEFORE WORKING, SHOPPING, SLEEPING, EVEN TRAVELING WAS
COOLED BY MAN-MADE AIR? YOU CAN FIND MANY OF THE ANSWERS, QUITE
LITERALLY, AT THE ROCHESTER HISTORICAL SOCIETY. LOOK CAREFULLY
AT THE BUILDING THAT HOUSES IT, WOODSIDE ON EAST AVENUE. THE
FIRST HINT COMES AT THE WINDOWS. IT'S HARDLY A NEW IDEA THAT
WHEN IT COMES TO ENERGY LOSS, WINDOWS ARE KEY.
>> THEY BEGAN THEIR ENERGY CONSERVATION EFFORTS AT WINDOWS,
PLACING SHUTTERS ON THE INSIDE OF THE WINDOW SO THAT THEY COULD
ACTIVELY USE THEM. THEY COULD CLOSE THEM TO KEEP OUT THE HEAT
AND THE SUN, OR AT NIGHT, IN THE WINTER, THEY COULD CLOSE THEM
TO KEEP OUT THE COLD.
>>
Wyatt Doremus: WANT FURTHER PROOF? LOOK NO FURTHER THAN THE
DITTY CLEMENT MOORE WROTE FOR HIS KIDS IN 1823. THAT'S THE ONE
ABOUT THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS.
>>
READ THE POEM CAREFULLY. THAT MAN IS JUMPING OUT OF BED; HE'S
HEARD THE RACKET ON THE ROOF; HE RUNS TO THE WINDOWS AND FLINGS
OPEN THE SHUTTERS BEFORE HE THROWS UP THE SASH.
>>
Wyatt Doremus: SHUTTERS WOULD EVENTUALLY WORK THEIR WAY OUTSIDE
ON MOST HOUSES. EITHER WAY, THE NEXT INNOVATION WAS PUTTING
A SMALL WINDOW ABOVE DOORS CALLED THE TRANSOM.
>>
THAT WOULD ALLOW AIR IN TO CIRCULATE THROUGH HALLWAYS AND YET
NOT LEAVE YOU VULNERABLE TO HAVING OPEN DOORS AND BUGS AND PEOPLE
AND GOD KNOWS WHO ELSE CIRCULATING IN YOUR HOME.
>>
PORCHES WERE AN IMPORTANT COOLING DEVICE. WOODSIDE BOASTS NOT
ONE BUT THREE OF THEM, PLACES WHERE A BREEZE HAD A FIGHTING
CHANCE OF REACHING YOU. LATER, WITH SCREENS, IT WAS THE PLACE
WHERE YOU SLEPT. BUT THERE WAS ONE MORE ENERGY-SAVING DEVICE,
PERHAPS THE GREATEST ONE OF ALL:
>>
WE LIKE TO TELL OUR VISITORS HERE IT WAS THE 19th CENTURY VERSION
OF AN AIR-CONDITIONING UNIT.
>> Wyatt Doremus: STAND IN THE MAIN HALLWAY OF THE ROCHESTER
HISTORICAL SOCIETY AND LOOK UP. WHEN YOU OVERCOME THE DIZZY
FEELING, YOU NOTICE A BLUE CIRCLE. THAT'S THE CEILING TO WOODSIDE'S
CUPOLA. THIS ONE IS CYLINDRICAL; MOST WERE SQUARE. EITHER WAY,
THEY FUNCTIONED THE SAME WAY ONCE OPENED.
>>
AND WE ALL LEARN IN SCHOOL HOT AIR RISES... THESE GLASS ROOMS
WERE PLACED OVER THE CENTRAL STAIRCASE SO THAT WHEN THE WEATHER
COOLS DOWN OR EVEN GOODNESS KNOWS, WHEN IT'S HOT, YOU OPEN UP
ALL YOUR GLASS SPACES IN YOUR CUPOLA AND IT DRAWS THE AIR OUT
OF THE HOUSE AND KEEPS, ONCE AGAIN, THE AIR CIRCULATION GOING.
>>
Wyatt Doremus: SHUTTERS, PORCHES, CUPOLAS AND OTHER DEVICES
GAVE YOU A FIGHTING CHANCE TO BEAT THE HEAT. STILL THERE WERE
DAYS WHEN ALL THE AIR SHUTTLED UP OR OUT WAS SIMPLY REPLACED
BY MORE HOT AIR. THAT'S WHEN THE REAL PROBLEMS MIGHT BEGIN IN
THE ROCHESTER OF A CENTURY AGO. GIVE THAT ERA THE SUMMER WE
HAVE HAD IN 2001, AND THERE WOULD BE DEADLY CONSEQUENCES.
>>
IF WE DIDN'T GET ENOUGH RAIN AND THE SUN WAS VERY, VERY HOT,
AND THIS WAS BEFORE WE HAD OUR SEWERS BUILT, WE HAD HORSES IN
THE STREETS AND PEOPLE DIDN'T ALWAYS CLEAN UP AS MUCH AS THEY
SHOULD; THEY DIDN'T ALWAYS CLEAN OUT THEIR OUTHOUSES AS MUCH
AS THEY SHOULD, SO THINGS LIKE CHOLERA BECAME A VERY SERIOUS
PROBLEM AND THE CITY'S HEALTH OFFICER WOULD OFTEN ISSUE WARNINGS
AND SEND SOME OF HIS EMPLOYEES ALMOST DOOR-TO-DOOR TELLING PEOPLE
THAT THEY HAD TO DEAL WITH THEIR SANITATION.
>>
Wyatt Doremus: THERE WERE PLENTY OF ICE VENDORS THAT DID YEAR-ROUND
BUSINESS. THE TROUBLE, AT LEAST UNTIL Dr. GEORGE GOELLER TOOK
OVER AS THE CITY'S COMMISSIONER IN THE EARLY 1900s, WAS THAT
ICE WAS NOT USED TO PROTECT THE WAGONS THAT BROUGHT MILK DOOR
TO DOOR.
>>
THE CONTAINERS WERE NOT COOLED; THE MILK WAS NOT PASTEURIZED,
SO SOMETIMES IT WAS CONTAMINATED AND THESE PEOPLE WOULD GET
WHAT WE CALLED "THE SUMMER COMPLAINT" AND CHILDREN WOULD ACTUALLY
DIE FROM IT. IT WAS A DIARRHEAL KIND OF INFECTION, AND THIS
WAS ALL CAUSED BY THE SUMMER HEAT. AND WE WOULD LOSE AS MANY
AS ONE-IN-FOUR CHILDREN DURING JULY AND AUGUST. THERE WAS AN
ENORMOUS SPIKE IN CHILD DEATHS.
>>
Wyatt Doremus: THE STORY ISN'T ALL BLEAK AND IN SOME WAYS HASN'T
CHANGED. THEN AS NOW, HOT DAYS MADE ROCHESTERIANS LOOK IN ONE
DIRECTION: >> JUST LIKE TODAY WE WILL GO UP TO THE LAKE AND
HAVE A ROCHESTER CUSTARD AT THE LAKE AND COOL OFF BY THE LAKE,
SO TOO DID THE 19th CENTURY GO UP TO THE LAKE TO COOL OFF.
(Music)
>>
Gary Walker: WITH ME NOW IS WXXI's WYATT DOREMUS. WYATT, NEVER
OCCURRED TO ME ABOUT HORSES AND MILK AT 100 DEGREES AND I GUESS
IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN PRETTY 100 YEARS AGO. BUT ARCHITECTURE
BACK THEN, TOO, I CAN'T IMAGINE TRYING TO LIVE IN THE ARCHITECTURE
WE HAVE NOW BACK THEN.
>>
Wyatt Doremus: IT WOULD TURN IT INTO AN OVEN THESE DAYS. THEY
CERTAINLY KNEW HOW TO PLAN AND DESIGN AROUND GETTING THE HEAT
OUT AS MUCH AS YOU COULD, BUT THERE WERE SOME DAYS THAT JUST
DIDN'T WORK NO MATTER WHAT YOU HAD.
>>
Gary Walker: YOU MENTIONED THE ONE RESPITE THEY DID HAVE WAS
OUTDOORS IN PLACES LIKE CHARLOTTE AND DORAN, WHICH WOULD BE
NICE IF YOU COULD SWIM AT, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE THE SAME
DRAW TODAY.
>>
THERE'S VERY LITTLE REMINDER OF THAT. YOU CAN SEE WHAT THEY
USED TO CALL WAKE CITY, ON THE SUMMERVILLE SIDE, THE LONG, NARROW
BUILDINGS THAT USED TO BE RAISED PLATFORMS AND TENTS, BUT CERTAINLY
NOTHING LIKE THE CONEY ISLAND OF THE NORTH, WHICH IS THE AMUSEMENT
PARK THAT USED TO BE THERE.
>>
Gary Walker: IT WAS A LOT MORE FUN BACK THEN, I GUESS. IT WAS
MORE OF A DRAW BECAUSE PEOPLE KNEW YOU WERE COMING OUT THERE,
A CAPTIVE AUDIENCE.
>>
Wyatt Doremus: SURE.
>>
Gary Walker: WYATT, WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING A LOT MORE FROM
YOU ON "NEED TO KNOW" ON SOME OF THE HISTORICAL ASPECTS OF ROCHESTER.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>>
THANK YOU.
>>
Gary Walker: AND THAT'S THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW."
TUNE IN NEXT WEEK AS WE BRING YOU THE REMARKABLE STORY OF "THE
LOST BOYS OF SUDAN," LIVING RIGHT HERE IN ROCHESTER. WE'LL SEE
YOU NEXT WEEK.
(Music)