>>
Gary Walker: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW," THEY'RE KNOWN AS
THE "LOST BOYS" OR THE "WALKING BOYS," A GROUP OF YOUNG SUDANESE
REFUGEES STRUGGLING TO SURVIVE WHILE SEARCHING FOR A PLACE TO
CALL HOME. FOR SOME, THE JOURNEY IS OVER, AND IT ENDED RIGHT
HERE IN ROCHESTER, NEW YORK. WE'LL SHARE SOME OF THEIR STORIES
AND FIND OUT WHY ROCHESTER HAS BECOME A SAFE HAVEN FOR SOME
OF THESE REFUGEES. PLUS IN OUR CULTURAL SEGMENT, A LOCAL SCULPTOR
IS BRINGING ROCHESTER'S FIGHT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS TO LIFE. WE'LL
GIVE YOU A SNEAK PEEK AND TALK WITH THE ARTIST. BUT FIRST, "THE
LOST BOYS OF SUDAN" COMING UP NEXT ON "NEED TO KNOW."
>>
I TAKE MY MIND BACK SOMETIMES TO MY COUNTRY BECAUSE I LOVE MY
FAMILY OVER THERE AND ALSO MY FRIENDS...
>>
THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH NEWS
PROGRAM. "NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS, EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.
>>
"NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS JONES FOUNDATION,
BY DORSCHEL LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>>
Gary Walker: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M GARY WALKER. IT'S
THE STORY OF A GROUP OF CHILDREN WHO HAVE DEFIED INCREDIBLE
ODDS. THEY'RE KNOWN ALL OVER THE WORLD, AND JUST RECENTLY, SOME
OF THE "LOST BOYS" OF SUDAN HAVE FOUND THEIR WAY TO ROCHESTER.
IN 1987, A RELIGIOUS CIVIL WAR BROKE OUT IN THE SUDAN BETWEEN
NORTHERN ISLAMIC GOVERNMENT AND THE SOUTHERN SUDANESE CHRISTIANS.
17,000 CHILDREN WERE FORCED TO FLEE THEIR HOMES AND BAND TOGETHER
IN SEARCH OF SAFETY. THE CHILDREN FORMED A SO-CALLED "WALKING
NATION," COVERING HUNDREDS OF MILES ACROSS THE AFRICAN DESERT.
IN 1999, THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT ALLOWED 3,800 SUDANESE REFUGEES
TO SETTLE HERE IN AMERICA. WITH THE HELP OF NINE AREA CHURCHES,
THE CATHOLIC FAMILY CENTER, AND THE SOUTH SUDANESE COMMUNITY
OFFICE, 36 OF THE "LOST BOYS" HAVE SETTLED HERE IN ROCHESTER,
A PLACE THEY NOW CAN CALL HOME. BUT IT'S A STRANGE WORLD TO
THEM: OUR LANGUAGE, OUR CULTURE, EVEN THE BASICS OF MODERN LIVING.
"NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS TELLS ONE CHILD'S STORY.
>>
MY NAME IS AVRAHAN CHOL. I CAME FROM SUDAN. I'M A "LOST BOY"
SINCE 1987. I AM UNWANTED CHILD OF SUDAN.
>>
Matt Cummings: AVRAHAN CHOL IS 17 YEARS OLD AND LIVING IN ROCHESTER.
BUT THAT'S WHERE SIMILARITIES WITH OTHER ROCHESTER TEENAGERS
END. AVRAHAN IS ONE OF THE "LOST BOYS," A GROUP OF CHILDREN
FLEEING THE CIVIL WAR RAGING IN THEIR HOMELAND OF SUDAN.
>>
SO THEY JUST CAME, WHEN I LEFT FROM MY COUNTRY -- THEY CAME;
I WAS PLAYING WITH MY NEIGHBOR CHILDREN, SO THEY JUST CAME AND
THEY KILLED SOME OTHER NEIGHBOR CHILDREN, BOYS, AND THEY KILLED
THEM, AND THEN THEY TOOK THEM. THEY CAME TO OUR HOUSE, SO MY
MOTHER YELLED AT ME. SHE CALLED MY NAME, AND WHEN I LOOKED UP,
I SEE THE SOLDIERS COMING NEAR ME, SO I RAN AND ONE OF THE SOLDIERS
COME AFTER ME. I RAN INTO THE WOODS AND I MET WITH SOME OF MY
BROTHERS THERE IN THE WOODS.
>>
Matt Cummings: AVRAHAN IS JUST ONE OF ROUGHLY 17,000 BOYS WHO
WERE SEPARATED FROM THEIR FAMILIES IN 1987 WHEN AN ONGOING CIVIL
WAR FLARED UP BETWEEN THE NORTHERN SUDAN ISLAMIC GOVERNMENT
AND SOUTHERN SUDAN CHRISTIAN REBELS.
>>
WE JUST WALKED IN THE WOODS, NO FOOD, JUST TREE LEAVES, AND
ALSO NO MEDICINE AND NO WATER OVER THERE ALSO. SO SOME OF OUR
BROTHERS, THEY HAVE DIED ON THE WAY WHEN WE ESCAPE FROM OUR
COUNTRY, UNTIL WE REACHED A SAFE PLACE. THE DISEASE ALSO BECAME
SERIOUS, SO IT KILLED MOST OF THE PEOPLE, AND THE REST, WE WERE
ABOUT 20,000 "WALKING BOYS." SO MOST OF THEM, THEY HAVE DIED
THERE, MANY FROM COMMUNICABLE DISEASE, AND SOME, THEY HAVE DIED
BECAUSE OF HUNGER.
>> Matt Cummings: AFTER FLEEING HIS HOME OF DHIAM DHIAM AT AGE
FOUR, AVRAHAN JOINED A RAGTAG GROUP OF MOSTLY CHILDREN WALKING
SEVERAL HUNDRED MILES BETWEEN SUDAN, ETHIOPIA AND KENYA IN SEARCH
OF SAFETY AND CARE.
>>
THERE ARE SOME DANGEROUS ANIMALS; THERE ARE WILD ANIMALS THERE
LIKE LIONS AND ALSO HYENA AND ALSO OTHER ANIMALS OVER THERE.
SO SOME OF THE PEOPLE, THEY WERE EATEN BY WILD ANIMALS ON THE
WAY.
>>
Matt Cummings: THE GROUP STAYED IN ETHIOPIA FROM 1987 TO 1991
BEFORE BEING FORCED TO MOVE BECAUSE OF ETHIOPIA'S CIVIL WAR.
THEY MADE THE JOURNEY BACK TO SUDAN AND SETTLED FOR ANOTHER
FEW MONTHS BEFORE BEING FORCED TO FLEE AGAIN, THIS TIME TO KENYA,
WHERE THEY FOUND THEIR FIRST GLIMPSE OF HOPE IN A REFUGEE CAMP.
>>
THEY HAVE TOLD US, "OKAY, WE DECIDED TO SEND YOU TO AMERICA.
IT WILL BE POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO GO THERE." AND WE ACCEPT BECAUSE
WE TOLD THEM THAT HERE WE LACK THINGS. WE DON'T HAVE GOOD EDUCATION
AND ALSO NOT ENOUGH FOOD, AND MOST OF OUR BROTHERS, THEY HAVE
BEEN KILLED BY THE PEOPLE HERE. SO WE AGREED TO GO TO THE UNITED
STATES IF POSSIBLE.
>>
Matt Cummings: ONLY 10,000 OF THE ORIGINAL 17,000 "LOST BOYS"
SURVIVED THE LONG, TREACHEROUS WALK. MANY DIED FROM NORTHERN
ARMY ATTACKS AND MARAUDING BANDITS. THE SURVIVORS TRAVELED HUNDREDS
OF MILES, ALL ON FOOT, FACING EVEN MORE DANGER.
>>
SO WE WENT DAY AND NIGHT WITHOUT GETTING SLEEP. OVER THERE,
SOME PEOPLE HAVE COLLAPSED ON THE WAY AND INJURED THEMSELVES,
AND THEY HAVE DIED THERE ON THE WAY.
>>
Matt Cummings: IN 1999, THE UNITED STATES OPENED ITS DOORS TO
3,800 SUDANESE REFUGEES. FOR AVRAHAN AND THE REST OF THE "LOST
BOYS," IT WAS A SECOND CHANCE AT LIFE, LIFE AWAY FROM THE CIVIL
WAR THAT'S TORN APART HIS COUNTRY. AFTER A LONG PLANE RIDE HALFWAY
AROUND THE WORLD, AVRAHAN'S JOURNEY HAS BROUGHT HIM TO ROCHESTER
AND THIS FOSTER HOME ON RAVINE AVENUE WHERE HE IS ADJUSTING
TO A NEW LIFE IN A NEW WORLD.
>>
WHEN WE WERE IN AFRICA, SOMETIMES WE SPEND ALMOST FOUR DAYS
WITHOUT GETTING FOOD, OR YOU COULD NOT SEE THE FOOD WITH YOUR
NAKED EYE WHEN WE WERE THERE. BUT NOW HERE IN THE UNITED STATES,
WE'VE GOT FOOD EVERY DAY, AND WE HAVE ENOUGH CLOTHES, BUT WE
DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CLOTHES THERE. AND WE HAVE GOT EDUCATION.
HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, IT IS POSSIBLE.
>>
Matt Cummings: AVRAHAN IS CONSIDERED A MINOR AND WILL REMAIN
UNDER FOSTER CARE UNTIL 2005 AT WHICH TIME HE'LL BE ON HIS OWN.
IN THE MEANTIME, HE'S LEARNING ABOUT LIFE IN THE UNITED STATES,
INCLUDING WHAT FASCINATES MOST TEENAGE BOYS:
>>
NOW HERE IN AMERICA, WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO ENGAGE WITH THE GIRLS
HERE. SO MAYBE IF WE TOOK -- FOR EXAMPLE IF WE TAKE ONE YEAR
OR SIX MONTHS HERE, THEN WE MAY ENGAGE WITH LADIES, BUT WE DON'T
KNOW HOW TO DO THAT HERE IN AMERICA. IS IT THE MAN WHO LOOK
AT GIRLS OR BOTH OF YOU, YOU LOOK AT EACH OTHER? WE DON'T KNOW.
>>
Matt Cummings: GIRLS AREN'T HIS ONLY PRIORITY. AVRAHAN IS FOCUSED
ON SUMMER SCHOOL AT FRANKLIN HIGH. HE'LL ATTEND FRANKLIN THIS
FALL AS WELL, A SENIOR WHO HOPES TO ATTEND A LOCAL COLLEGE TO
BE AN ENGINEER, ACCOUNTANT OR DOCTOR. FOR NOW, HE'S HAPPY TO
PLAY SOCCER OR BASKETBALL WITH NEW FRIENDS AND OTHER REFUGEES.
HE OFTEN PONDERS THE FUTURE OF HIS HOMELAND.
>>
MY MIND GOES BACK TO OUR COUNTRY BECAUSE I LOVE MY COUNTRY,
AND I HOPE THAT THEY WILL DO SOMETHING GOOD IN OUR COUNTRY AND
OUR COUNTRY WILL BE HAVING PEACE.
>>
TOMORROW WE HOLD INTERVIEWS ALL DAY LONG, FROM 10 a.m. TO 7
p.m.
>>
Matt Cummings: LIKE MOST TEENAGE BOYS, AVRAHAN IS LOOKING FORWARD
TO GETTING HIS DRIVER'S LICENSE AND FINDING A PART-TIME JOB.
HE FINDS WATCHING TELEVISION HELPFUL IN LEARNING ABOUT AMERICAN
CULTURE.
>>
SOMETIMES I WATCH THE NEWS AND I -- IF I HAD SOME WORDS WHICH
I DON'T KNOW, I WRITE THEM DOWN AND SEE THE DICTIONARY, AND
ALSO IT IMPROVES MY ENGLISH.
>>
Matt Cummings: AVRAHAN IS ADJUSTING TO LIFE IN ROCHESTER, BUT
HE WILL NEVER FORGET HIS JOURNEY AND THE COUNTRY HE HOPES TO
RETURN TO. >> THAT IS MY MAIN GOAL FOR WHAT I'M DOING NOW, BECAUSE
IN OUR COUNTRY OUR PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING AND THEY NEED HELP.
SO AFTER I COMPLETE MY EDUCATION, I WILL GO BACK TO SUDAN AND
HELP MY PEOPLE THERE.
(Music)
>>
Gary Walker: WITHIN THIS PAST MONTH, NINE NEW REFUGEES HAVE
ARRIVED IN ROCHESTER WITH MORE EXPECTED SOON. JOINING ME NOW
IN STUDIO IS PAUL BOTH, A CASE WORKER AT THE CATHOLIC FAMILY
CENTER AND A DIRECTOR OF THE SOUTH SUDANESE COMMUNITY OFFICE;
PETER DAVID, ONE OF THE "LOST BOYS," AND NANCY FRANK, VOLUNTEER
COORDINATOR OF THE ADMISSION AND OUTREACH PROGRAMS AT ST. PAUL'S
EPISCOPAL CHURCH RIGHT HERE ON EAST AVENUE. THANK YOU ALL FOR
JOINING US. LET ME BEGIN BY WELCOMING YOU, PETER. WELCOME TO
ROCHESTER. HOW ARE YOU FINDING IT SO FAR?
>>
I LIKE IT.
>> Gary Walker: YOU DO?
>>
YEAH.
>>
Gary Walker: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN HERE?
>>
FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS --
>>
Gary Walker: FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS.
>>
IN THE UNITED STATES.
>>
Gary Walker: IN THE UNITED STATES. HOW ABOUT RIGHT HERE IN ROCHESTER?
>> THREE WEEKS.
>>
Gary Walker: THREE WEEKS. IT MUST BE VERY DIFFERENT FOR YOU?
>>
YEAH.
>>
Gary Walker: WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO YOU MORE ABOUT THAT AS SOON
AS I ENGAGE PAUL HERE AND NANCY, AND I HAVE TO ASK, YOU KNOW,
OF ALL THE COMMUNITIES, WHY ROCHESTER? WHY WAS ROCHESTER CHOSEN
AS ONE OF THESE COMMUNITIES? PETER, EITHER YOU OR NANCY?
>>
ROCHESTER HAS GOOD SUPPORT FOR REFUGEES WHO HAVE JUST ARRIVED.
THERE'S GOOD INTEREST. THERE'S GOOD SUPPORT FROM THE CHURCHES.
>>
Gary Walker: THANK GOD THAT THEY ARRIVED IN SUMMER. I WAS READING
AN ARTICLE IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ABOUT THIS WHERE THEY ARRIVED
IN FARGO, NORTH DAKOTA IN FEBRUARY, WHICH WAS... (Chuckling)
CULTURE SHOCK IS ONE THING, BUT A 100-DEGREE DIFFERENCE, THAT'S
A BIG DEAL. PAUL, YOU'RE INSTRUMENTAL IN ALL OF THIS. COULD
YOU TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THIS CAME TO BE HERE IN ROCHESTER?
>>
FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK WXXI FOR GIVING US THIS
OPPORTUNITY TO RAISE OUR VOICE SO THE COMMUNITY WILL BE WELL-KNOWN
FOR THE SOUTH SUDANESE COMMUNITY.
>>
Gary Walker: YOU'RE QUITE WELCOME.
>>
OKAY. IT'S MY PRIVILEGE TO BE HERE WITH YOU TODAY AND PRESENT
WHAT HAS GONE ON IN THE SUDANESE COMMUNITY. YOU HAVE QUESTION
BEFORE WHY ROCHESTER? ROCHESTER HAS BEEN A GREAT HELP TO REFUGEES.
FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF MONTHS, PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, I SHOULD
SAY, IN TERMS -- BECAUSE OF HELP OF THE C.F.C., THE CATHOLIC
FAMILY CENTER, AND THE CHURCHES AS WELL.
>>
Gary Walker: MUCH IS BEING MADE OF FAITH-BASED ORGANIZATIONS
IN THE AMERICAN POLITICAL CLIMATE NOW WITH PRESIDENT BUSH ADVOCATING
FOR MORE FAITH-BASED. IN PRACTICE, THIS IS A FAITH-BASED INITIATIVE,
IS IT NOT? WERE IT NOT FOR THE CATHOLIC FAMILY CENTER OR THE
EPISCOPAL CHURCH, WE WOULD NOT HAVE PETER HERE; IS THAT THE
CASE?
>>
WELL, I'M NOT SURE. THE ORGANIZATIONS -- EACH REFUGEE COMES
WITH A CERTAIN GOVERNMENT GRANT AND THEN GOES TO AN AGENCY,
AND IN ROCHESTER CATHOLIC FAMILY SERVICE IS NOW THE ONE THAT
THE SUDANESE ARE COMING THROUGH.
>>
Gary Walker: HOW ARE THE "LOST BOYS" -- HOW ARE THEY CHOSEN
TO COME HERE? 3,800 IS NOT A LOT OF KIDS.
>>
NO, THERE ARE THOUSANDS.
>>
Gary Walker: HOW DO YOU MAKE THIS DECISION? WHO MAKES THE DECISION?
WHAT'S THE BASIS OF IT? PAUL, CAN YOU ENLIGHTEN US ON THAT?
>>
AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, CATHOLIC FAMILY CENTER HAD COMMUNICATED
WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT TO DETERMINE IF ROCHESTER WOULD BE
ABLE TO HELP THE REFUGEES, AND THE RESPONSE TO THAT, OUR ASSISTANT
DIRECTOR OF C.F.C. CAME TO THE SUDANESE OFFICE AND TALKED TO
US BACK IN NOVEMBER OF 2000, IF WE COULD BE MENTORS TO THESE
REFUGEES, AND OUR ANSWER WAS YES, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO HELP THEM
AND THE CHURCHES RESPOND WELL, AND THAT'S HOW THE BOYS GOT TO
ROCHESTER.
>>
Gary Walker: PETER, WHEN YOU WERE APPROACHED, DID THEY ASK YOU,
"DO YOU WANT TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES? DO YOU WANT TO COME
TO ROCHESTER?" OR WAS -- HOW WAS THE DECISION MADE? ARE THERE
SOME OTHER PEOPLE, FRIENDS OF YOURS, WHO ELECTED TO STAY OR
DID EVERYBODY PRETTY MUCH WANT TO GO? HOW DID THAT WORK?
>> YEAH, FOR US "LOST BOYS," EVERYONE WANTED TO COME TO THE
UNITED STATES, YEAH, ALL OF THEM. THEY WANTED TO COME HERE.
>>
Gary Walker: NOT VERY MANY WERE ALLOWED TO COME IN. SO THE PEOPLE
WHO CAME CONSIDER THEMSELVES LUCKY; THEY WANTED TO DO THIS?
>>
YES.
>>
Gary Walker: I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT CULTURE BECAUSE
IT'S SUCH A DIFFERENT CULTURE, FROM MY READING, PARTICULARLY,
YOU KNOW, THE MODERN LIFE AND THE MODERN CONVENIENCES BUT ALSO
CULTURALLY, TOO. IN SUDAN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT MARRIAGE
HAPPENS MUCH EARLIER IN LIFE AND MUCH MORE OFTEN IF YOU HAVE
THE MEANS, AND I GUESS WHETHER IT'S CATTLE OR PERSONAL MEANS...
IT'S A GREAT DEAL OF DIFFERENCE COMING FROM THERE TO HERE. IS
THAT A STRUGGLE FOR YOU RIGHT NOW?
>>
OF COURSE, YES.
>>
Gary Walker: IS IT A BIT OVERWHELMING TO YOU?
>>
NO.
>>
Gary Walker: HOW DO YOU LIKE WHERE YOU LIVE NOW?
>>
WHERE I LIVE RIGHT NOW?
>>
Gary Walker: UM-HMM.
>>
WELL, I CANNOT JUDGE IT BECAUSE THE WINTER HAS NOT YET COME
AND I WAS TOLD THERE'S LOTS OF ICE. I LIKE IT FOR THE LITTLE
TIME I HAVE TAKEN.
>>
Gary Walker: YOU'RE 19 AND ON THE WAY HERE, YOU ACTUALLY HAD
A JOB INTERVIEW.
>>
YEAH.
>> Gary Walker: HOW DID IT GO?
>> IT IS OKAY. I'M GOING TO START IT ON MONDAY.
>>
Gary Walker: YOU ARE? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE DOING?
>>
HE'S GOING TO BE WORKING AT WEGMAN'S --
>>
Gary Walker: PAUL, MAYBE YOU CAN TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
THAT. HOW DIFFICULT IS IT -- WHEN THESE CHILDREN ARE COMING
HERE, MANY ARE OVER 18; WE HAVE STRICT IMMIGRATION LAWS HERE.
WE HAVE -- YOU KNOW, THE CHURCH CAN ONLY SUPPORT FOR SO LONG.
THESE YOUNG MEN ARE EXPECTED TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES SOONER RATHER
THAN LATER, I THINK. HOW IS THAT GOING? HOW IS THAT PROCESS
WORKING HERE?
>>
WELL, IN TERMS OF GETTING THEM JOBS, JOBS NOW BECOME A CHALLENGE
BECAUSE THESE KIDS, THEY DON'T HAVE THE SKILL TO GET THE JOB,
BUT THROUGH THE HELP OF WEGMAN'S -- WEGMAN'S IS DOING A TREMENDOUS
JOB RIGHT NOW. THAT'S WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN HIRING PEOPLE, AT
WEGMAN'S. SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE FOR THEM. BUT
WITH A LOT OF HELP, COMMUNITY AND CHURCHES, THEY ARE DOING ALL
RIGHT.
>>
Gary Walker: IS FINDING A JOB AND SELF-SUFFICIENCY, IS THAT
YOUR BIGGEST CHALLENGE RIGHT NOW FOR THESE 36 KIDS?
>>
YES.
>>
Gary Walker: NANCY, YOU KNOW, DO YOU CONCUR WITH PAUL, AND WHAT
ARE THE PROSPECTS FOR BRINGING MORE OF THE LOST BOYS HERE AND
FINDING THEM A PATHWAY TO A LIFE HERE IN ROCHESTER?
>>
WELL, THE JOB IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF IT. ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT PEOPLE CAN DO IS TO GO ALONG WITH SOME PEOPLE FOR INTERVIEWS,
FOR FILLING OUT THE FORMS. AT ONE POINT I DID THIS A COUPLE
OF YEARS AGO WITH A REFUGEE AND THE QUESTION WAS YOUR LEVEL
OF EDUCATION. WELL, THE REFUGEE SAID THIRD GRADE, AND THE WAY
TO DO IT IS TO -- THAT REFUGEE WAS CURRENTLY ENROLLED IN M.C.C.
YOU KNOW, SO IT'S HOW YOU PUT IT ON THE PAPER AND IT'S HELPFUL
TO GIVE SOME OF THE STRENGTHS OF THE STUDENTS THAT ARE DIFFERENT
FROM AN AMERICAN.
>>
Gary Walker: IT SEEMS -- YEAH, IF YOU LOOK AT A JOB APPLICATION,
THERE'S VERY LITTLE -- THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT "FORCED TO WALK
A DESERT FOR SO MANY YEARS."
>> THERE'S NO BLANK FOR THAT ONE.
>>
Gary Walker: THERE'S NO BLANK FOR THAT. LET ME ASK YOU THIS:
YOU TOLD ME YOU WERE IN SUDAN.
>>
YES, I'VE BEEN THERE TWICE.
>>
Gary Walker: CAN YOU DESCRIBE IT A BIT? WE SAW A LITTLE ON THE
VIDEOTAPE, BUT CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT YOU SAW?
>>
WELL, THAT'S A GOOD PICTURE OF WHAT I ALSO SAW. I WAS NOT IN
AN ACTIVE WAR ZONE AT THAT TIME, BUT THE LIFE IS TOUGH; THE
WORK IS HARD. TO GRIND SOME OF THE GRAIN TAKES THREE OR FOUR
HOURS OUT OF A WOMAN'S MORNING TO DO THAT. SCHOOLING -- THE
SOCIAL INSTITUTIONS THAT WE ALL DEPEND ON HERE HAVE PRETTY MUCH
BEEN -- THEY'RE GONE BECAUSE OF THE WAR. SO SCHOOLING IS SPOTTY
AND NOT GOOD. I THINK I HAVE HEARD SOMEPLACE THAT THERE'S TEN
MILES OF PAVED ROAD IN ALL OF SOUTHERN SUDAN.
>>
Gary Walker: TEN MILES?
>>
TEN MILES. THE REST IS HARD-PACKED MUD. GETTING FOOD IS INCREDIBLY
DIFFICULT. THE ONLY WAY TO GET FOOD IN THERE OR RELIEF WORK
IS BY AIR BECAUSE NOT ALL THE AREAS ARE SAFE.
>>
Gary Walker: LET ME ALSO ASK THIS, TOO, AND MAYBE PETER -- I'M
SORRY, PAUL, MAYBE YOU COULD HELP A LITTLE BIT HERE. DO OTHER
AFRICAN NATIONS TAKE SOME OF THE "LOST BOYS," TOO, OR IS THERE
A RESISTANCE TO THAT?
>>
I WOULD SAY THERE'S NO RESISTANCE IN AFRICA. YOU CAN GO TO ETHIOPIA
TO BECOME A REFUGEE BUT NOT LIKE AMERICA. WHEN YOU COME TO AMERICA
AS A REFUGEE, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BEING HERE AND DIFFERENCE
BEING IN ETHIOPIA IN THE REFUGEE CAMP OR IN A REFUGEE CAMP IN
KENYA. IT'S ALL DIFFERENT. HERE PEOPLE TREAT YOU EQUALLY WITH
OTHER PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES, WHERE IF YOU WAS IN KENYA,
PEOPLE WOULD TREAT YOU AS A REFUGEE AND YOU WOULDN'T EVEN BE
ALLOWED TO BE IN THE CITY. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LIVE IN REFUGEE
CAMPS...
>> Gary Walker: SO YOUR CHOICE WAS LIVING IN A REFUGEE CAMP
IN ETHIOPIA, ANOTHER NATION, OR COMING HERE?
>>
MINE WOULD BE A BIT DIFFERENT FROM THE REST OF THE "LOST BOYS"
BECAUSE WHEN I LEFT ETHIOPIA, I WENT TO UGANDA AND THEN FROM
UGANDA, I CAME TO KENYA. FROM MY KNOWLEDGE, THE "LOST BOYS"
IN OTHER COUNTRIES, THEY'RE BEING GIVEN A LOT BY ORGANIZATIONS.
WHEN YOU'RE A LITTLE BOY, THEY MUST HELP YOU BY ANY MEANS. IF
YOU WANT TRANSPORT, THEY CAN TRANSPORT YOU. THAT TOOK A COUPLE
MONTHS. IF YOU WANT EDUCATION, YOU CAN BE IN A SCHOOL FREE.
>>
Gary Walker: PETER, HOW LONG WERE YOU ACTUALLY WALKING? HOW
LONG WERE YOU IN THE DESERT?
>> ABOUT ELEVEN.
>>
Gary Walker: ELEVEN YEARS? YOU WERE ACTUALLY WALKING WITH THIS
GROUP OF YOUNG MEN, LIVING OFF THE LAND BASICALLY, FOR ELEVEN
YEARS? >> YES.
>>
Gary Walker: YOU HAVE AN EXTRAORDINARILY GOOD COMMAND OF THE
ENGLISH LANGUAGE. HOW DID YOU LEARN THIS WHEN YOU WERE IN A
DESERT FOR ELEVEN YEARS?
>>
I THINK HE MEANS ELEVEN YEARS WHEN HE'S OUT --
>>
Gary Walker: STILL, YOU HAVE EXTRAORDINARILY GOOD ENGLISH. HOW
DID YOU LEARN IT? >> I WAS IN NAIROBI FOR FOUR YEARS, IN A CATHOLIC
CHURCH. THEY ASKED ME TO BE IN THE SCHOOL.
>>
Gary Walker: WE HAVE A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT. LET ME ASK: ARE
THERE PLANS FOR MORE AND DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA OF HOW MANY MORE
OF THE "LOST BOYS" WILL COME TO ROCHESTER?
>>
YES, ACCORDING TO THE STATE DEPARTMENT, WASHINGTON OFFICE, THEY
TOLD US THAT WE WILL HAVE 50 "WALKING BOYS" HERE, OR THE "LOST
BOYS." SO WE'RE HOPING -- NOW WE HAVE 36. WE'RE HOPING WE'LL
HAVE 24 MORE "WALKING BOYS," MORE THAN THAT, THAT NUMBER PLUS
WE IN THE OTHER DEPARTMENT WE WERE HOPING TO HAVE 20 MORE MINORS
LIKE AVRAHAN. HE'S A MINOR.
>>
Gary Walker: WHAT CAN PEOPLE DO TO HELP?
>>
THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. PEOPLE CAN HELP BY SUPPORTING OR GETTING
INVOLVED IN THE CHURCHES, OUR DIFFERENT CHURCHES WHO REALLY
HELP RIGHT NOW. OR COME AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE SUDANESE
COMMUNITY. THAT WOULD BE A HELP.
>> Gary Walker: SO KNOWLEDGE WOULD BE HELPFUL ON THE PART OF
THE COMMUNITY. REALLY THAT'S OUR TIME. PAUL, THANK YOU. NANCY,
THANK YOU. PETER, ESPECIALLY, THANK YOU. WELCOME TO ROCHESTER.
WE HOPE YOU THRIVE HERE. AND AGAIN, WELCOME. THAT'S ALL THE
TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS DISCUSSION. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
OUR NEXT STORY IS ALSO ABOUT A REFUGEE. PEPSY KETTAVONG AND
HIS FAMILY ESCAPED FROM THE COMMUNIST COUNTRY OF LAOS. KETTAVONG,
AN ARTIST WHO NOW LIVES AND WORKS IN ROCHESTER, WAS COMMISSIONED
TO DESIGN AND SCULPT A TRIBUTE TO SUSAN B. ANTHONY AND FREDERICK
DOUGLASS, TWO PIONEERS IN THE FIGHT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS. THE ACTUAL
UNVEILING OF THE PIECE IS SCHEDULED FOR THIS WEEKEND, BUT "NEED
TO KNOW'S" JOY PARKER SAT DOWN WITH THE ARTIST AND HAD A PREVIEW.
(Music)
>>
THE HISTORY OF THE WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE MOVEMENT, THE SUSAN B. ANTHONY
HOUSE, AND THE FACT THAT WHEN YOU GO OUT IN THE PARK OR ALONG
THE STREET, THE POTENTIAL -- THE CHANCE OF WALKING IN THE SAME
FOOTSTEPS AS SUSAN B. ANTHONY, THAT'S FASCINATING TO ME. AND
ALSO WHAT THEY DID, IT'S JUST AMAZING. FROM THE SCULPTOR'S POINT
OF VIEW, THE REPRESENTATION -- YOU GENERALLY PERCEIVE SUSAN
B. ANTHONY AND FREDERICK DOUGLASS IN OLD AGE, PORTRAYED WITH
GREY HAIR, WILD HAIR, BEARDS... SO WITH THIS SCULPTURE, WE DECIDED
TO TAKE THEM AT A YOUNGER AGE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE USUALLY
DON'T SEE. NOW, IN TERMS OF THE INTERACTION, WE WANT THEM TO
BE AS INVITING AND COMFORTABLE THAT PEOPLE COULD INTERACT AND
ENGAGE IN ACTUALLY TOUCHING THEM, SITTING ON THEIR LAPS, AND
LASTLY, THE IDEA, PERCEIVE THEM AS A HUMAN BEING. SO WHEN YOU
LOOK AT THE WESTERN IDEOLOGY, YOU SAY, "HEY, LET'S GO OUT AND
HAVE TEA," OR GO OUT FOR A BEER OR WHATEVER IT IS, YOU KNOW;
YOU HAVE A CERTAIN COMFORTNESS ABOUT IT, DON'T YOU, WHEN YOU
INVITE PEOPLE? SO THAT SUGGESTS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE
TWO FIGURES. IT'S LIKE THEY LIVED A LIFE WITH SUCH A GREAT UNDERSTANDING
OF WHAT'S RIGHT AND WHAT'S WRONG.
>>
Gary Walker: WITH ME NOW IS THE SCULPTOR OF THOSE INCREDIBLE
STATUES, PEPSY KETTAVONG. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I HAVE TO
ASK HOW IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET INVOLVED IN THIS?
>>
ACTUALLY, WHEN I MOVED BACK HERE FROM OMAHA, NEBRASKA, WE WERE
THINKING ABOUT DOING A MAJOR INSTALLATION OUTDOORS IN A PARK,
A SCULPTURE PARK, AND THEN WE CONNECTED WITH BARBARA AND DAN
HOFFMAN, WHO WAS THE PROJECT DIRECTOR, PROJECT PERSON, AND THOUGHT
MAYBE WE WOULD DO SOMETHING FOR SUSAN B. ANTHONY AND FREDERICK
DOUGLASS BECAUSE I HAPPENED TO LIVE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
>>
Gary Walker: YOUR FAMILY ESCAPES FROM LAOS; YOU COME TO THIS
COUNTRY. WHEN DID YOU DISCOVER YOU HAD THE ABILITY TO CREATE
ART LIKE THAT?
>>
WELL, WHEN I WAS A KID, ONE OF THE THINGS WE USED TO DO IS DIG
UP OUR OWN CLAY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY MONEY AND WE HAD
TO MAKE OUR OWN TOYS. SO FROM THAT POINT, I ALWAYS ENJOYED MANIPULATING
OBJECTS, CERTAIN THINGS BECOME SOMETHING ELSE. BUT I NEVER REALIZED
YOU COULD GO TO SCHOOL FOR IT AND REALIZE IT AS A PROFESSION.
THAT WAS KIND OF SURPRISING.
>>
Gary Walker: IT'S EXTRAORDINARY, EXTRAORDINARY WORK. I MEAN,
HOW DID YOU -- WHEN YOU ENTERED IT, DID YOU KNOW A LOT ABOUT
FREDERICK DOUGLASS AND SUSAN B. ANTHONY?
>>
NO, NOT REALLY BESIDES JUST A PRESCHOOL KNOWLEDGE. BUT THE MORE
I KNOW ABOUT THEM, IT'S FASCINATING THE WAY THEY LIVED THEIR
LIVES.
>>
Gary Walker: DID IT CHANGE THE WAY YOU APPROACH YOUR ART?
>>
WELL, YES, BECAUSE DURING THAT TIME, ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO,
I HAPPENED TO GET INVOLVED IN LOOKING AT THE HARLEM RENAISSANCE,
THE HARLEM RENAISSANCE, AND I GOT INTERESTED IN AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN
ARTIST. HER NAME IS AUGUSTA SAVAGE. THERE'S TREMENDOUS POWER
WHEN LOOKING AT THAT. YOU CAN SENSE THE PAIN AND -- IT GAVE
ME AN IDEA, "HOW CAN WE PORTRAY THAT? HOW CAN WE BRING THAT
ENERGY IN?"
>>
Gary Walker: WELL, THESE ARE GOING TO BE UNVEILED THIS WEEKEND.
WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO IT, AND ONCE AGAIN, WE CONGRATULATE
YOU ON A FABULOUS, FABULOUS PIECE OF ART. PEPSY, THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US. NEXT WEEK-- AS I SAID, WE'LL UNVEIL THE STATUES
ON THE WEEKEND HERE. THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS EDITION
OF "NEED TO KNOW." TUNE IN NEXT WEEK AS WE TALK ABOUT ROCHESTER'S
WATERFRONT AND THE DEVELOPMENT POSSIBILITIES THERE. WE'LL SEE
YOU THEN.
(Music)