>>
Gary Walker: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW," THE BATTLE RAGES
ON AMONG EDUCATORS OVER STANDARDIZED TESTING. STATE LEADERS
WANT TO MEASURE STUDENTS' PROGRESS, BUT MANY LOCAL EDUCATORS
SAY THIS IS NOT THE WAY. WE'LL PRESENT ARGUMENTS ON BOTH SIDES
AND TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW TO HELP YOUR KIDS SUCCEED.
ALSO, YOU HAVE PROBABLY SEEN THEM ALL OVER TOWN. WELL, WE'RE
GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT THOSE HORSES ARE ALL ABOUT. STANDARDIZED
TESTING IS OUR TOPIC. IT'S COMING UP NEXT ON "NEED TO KNOW."
>>
WE'RE A COOKIE-CUTTER APPROACH TO EDUCATIONAL REFORM.
>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH
NEWS PROGRAM. "NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION OF WXXI NEWS AND
PUBLIC AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS, EDUCATION AND CURRENT
EVENTS.
>>
"NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS JONES FOUNDATION,
BY DORSCHEL LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>>
Gary Walker: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M GARY WALKER. IN AN
EFFORT TO TRACK STUDENT PERFORMANCE AND ESTABLISH A MINIMUM
STANDARD OF EDUCATION FOR ALL NEW YORK STATE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS,
THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION NOW REQUIRES EVERY STUDENT
TO PASS A STANDARDIZE EXAM TO GRADUATE. THIS ELIMINATES THE
OPTION OF STUDENTS GRADUATING WITH A LOCAL DIPLOMA. TRADITIONALLY,
STUDENTS WERE REQUIRED TO PASS THESE TESTS FOR A REGENTS DIPLOMA,
BUT NOW ALL STUDENTS MUST PASS THESE EXAMS TO GRADUATE. THIS
FALL'S FRESHMAN CLASS, THE ONE GRADUATING IN THE YEAR 2004,
ARE THE FIRST STUDENTS TO BE REQUIRED TO HAVE A REGENTS DIPLOMA
TO GRADUATE. MANY LOCAL EDUCATORS FEEL THESE EXAMS WILL DETRACT
FROM THE LEVEL OF EDUCATION THEY CAN PROVIDE. THEY BELIEVE EVERY
STUDENT LEARNS DIFFERENTLY AND THAT THE EXAMS DON'T REFLECT
THOSE DIFFERENCES. OPPONENTS SAY TEACHERS WILL BE FORCED TO
TEACH TO THE EXAM AND NOT TO THE CURRICULA IN ORDER TO PREPARE
STUDENTS FOR THE TEST. WHILE THE ISSUE IS DEBATED, THIS FALL'S
FRESHMAN CLASS BEGINS THE NEW STANDARDS. IN ORDER TO GRADUATE,
THEY MUST PASS REGENTS EXAMS IN ENGLISH, MATH, SCIENCE, GLOBAL
HISTORY AND GEOGRAPHY AND U.S. HISTORY AND GOVERNMENT. THE SCHOOL
WITHOUT WALLS WAS ESTABLISHED AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO TRADITIONAL
PUBLIC SCHOOLS. THE SCHOOL STAFF CREATES AND IMPLEMENTS THEIR
OWN CURRICULA WITHOUT HAVING TO PREPARE FOR STANDARDIZED EXAMS.
NOW, THAT'S QUITE A CHANGE. WXXI's MATT CUMMINGS HAS THE STORY.
>>
I WON'T DO WELL. IT'S JUST THE WAY THE TESTING IS. IT'S A ONE-WAY
ROAD AND IF YOU DON'T GO THAT WAY, THEN YOU'RE BREAKING THE
RULES.
>>
Matt Cummings: RICHARD MATAMORE IS A STUDENT AT SCHOOL WITHOUT
WALLS. HIS PRINCIPAL, STAN DRMACICH, AGREES WITH HIM.
>>
THE MESSAGE THAT'S BEING SENT TO ALL THE SCHOOLS, TO ALL THE
670-ODD SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THIS STATE, IS THAT "DON'T YOU DARE
INNOVATE. DON'T YOU DARE TRY AND DO ANYTHING THAT IS OUT OF
THE BOX FROM WHAT WE'RE DOING BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE
ABLE TO DO IT. ONE SIZE FITS ALL."
>> Matt Cummings: DRMACICH PAINTS A DARK PICTURE FOR SCHOOL
WITHOUT WALLS IF THE STATE-IMPOSED STANDARDIZED TESTS ARE ALLOWED.
DRMACICH HAS A LOT AT STAKE. HIS SCHOOL IS BASED ON THE IDEA
THAT NOT ALL STUDENTS LEARN IN THE SAME WAY AND THEREFORE SHOULDN'T
BE FORCED INTO ONE STANDARD FORM OF MEASUREMENT.
>>
THEY FORCE TEACHERS TO TEACH TO THE TEST. AND BASICALLY WHAT
HAPPENS THEN IS THAT THE KINDS OF RICH LEARNING EXPERIENCES
THAT KIDS WOULD BE GETTING IF THEY WEREN'T BEING PREPARED FOR
THE TEST AND WHICH SCHOOLS BECOME GIANT TEST-PREP FACTORIES
OF LEARNING AS OPPOSED TO INDIVIDUAL HIGH-POWERED STUFF.
>>
Matt Cummings: SOMETHING HE BELIEVES HAS TEACHERS UNDER THE
GUN OF ACCOUNTABILITY.
>>
WHAT'S ON THE TEST AND WHAT ARE ON THE STANDARDS ARE TWO DIFFERENT
THINGS. IF YOU HAVE A TEACHER WHO KNOWS THAT HE'S GOING TO BE
HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE SCORE ON THE TEST, HE'S NOT GOING TO
BE TEACHING TO THE STANDARDS. HE'S GOING TO MAKE A CHOICE TO
TEACH TO THE TEST.
>>
Matt Cummings: BUT NOT ALL EDUCATORS AGREE.
>>
WHAT THEY'RE THERE TO MEASURE IS THE COMPREHENSIVENESS OF THE
CAPACITY OF THE CHILD'S MEETING THE STANDARDS IN READING, WRITING,
MATH, SCIENCE AND SOCIAL STUDIES, TO WHAT WOULD BE OUR COMMON
STANDARD THAT WE'RE EXPECTING FROM ALL HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES.
>>
Matt Cummings: TODD EAGLE IS DISTRICT SUPERINTENDENT OF MONROE
II ORLEANS BOCES. HE POINTS OUT NEW YORK HAS ALWAYS HAD STANDARDIZED
TESTING IN THE FORM OF REGENTS EXAMS.
>>
THE PROBLEM THAT STARTED TO EMERGE IS THAT THE RELIABILITY OF
THOSE STANDARDS THAT WERE INDIVIDUALLY DETERMINED BY LOCAL BOARDS
AND LOCAL SCHOOLS WASN'T RELIABLE AND QUITE FRANKLY BEGAN TO
IMPACT ON THE RELIABILITY OF STANDARDIZED DIPLOMAS LIKE THE
REGENTS DIPLOMA. SO WE'RE IN A COMMON, SINGLE DIPLOMA STANDARD
GOING FORWARD INTO THE FUTURE, AND THAT REQUIRES SOME COMMON,
RELIABLE, RIGOROUS TESTING PROGRAM.
>>
Matt Cummings: THIS ISN'T JUST AN ISSUE HERE. IT WAS A MAIN
ISSUE OF THE RECENT PRESIDENTIAL AND NEW YORK SENATE RACES.
>> I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED IN ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT I HAVE NEVER
BELIEVED IN ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING KIDS TESTS.
I BELIEVE THAT IT SHOULD BE USED TO DIAGNOSE WHAT'S NOT HAPPENING
IN THE LEARNING PROCESS, TO IMPROVE LEARNING OUTCOMES, TO HELP
TEACHERS BE MORE SUCCESSFUL IN TEACHING STUDENTS, TO GIVE PARENTS
GOOD INFORMATION.
>>
Matt Cummings: FOR HIS PART, EAGLE DOESN'T IGNORE EDUCATORS'
CONCERNS ABOUT STANDARDIZED TESTING.
>>
I THINK THE CRITICISMS YOU HEAR ARE THAT THE TESTING GETS IN
THE WAY OF THE INSTRUCTION, AND THAT CAN BE TRUE, I THINK, IF
THE TESTING PROGRAM IS SEEN TO BE IN THE WAY. I WOULD IMAGINE
THAT ANY TEST, NO MATTER HOW GOOD OR HOW WELL DESIGNED, CAN
BE A POOR SUBSTITUTE FOR GOOD INSTRUCTION IF ALL THAT'S HAPPENING
IS THE CLASSROOM IS TEACHING TO IT.
>> THE PURPOSE OF TESTING OUGHT TO BE A LEARNING EXPERIENCE,
FOR A STUDENT TO LEARN ABOUT HIMSELF AS FAR AS WHAT HIS STRENGTHS
AND WEAKNESSES ARE, THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT THEY NEED TO DO
IN ORDER TO SURVIVE IN A COMPLEX, TECHNOLOGICAL, URBAN SOCIETY.
IF THE TESTS ARE NOT GEARED TO THOSE TYPES OF SKILLS, THEN IT'S
A FAULTY TEST.
>>
Matt Cummings: DRMACICH'S STUDENTS AGREE.
>>
TESTS JUST LIMIT YOU AND THEY JUST MAKE YOUR PATH OF LEARNING
VERY NARROW.
>> YOU DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE CREATIVE. IT'S LIKE
YOU'RE PUT INTO A BOX AND YOU'RE MOLDED TO IT AND EVERYBODY
HAS TO BE THE SAME TO GET OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL.
>>
Matt Cummings: EAGLE SAYS IT CAN PLAY A VITAL ROLE IN DESIGNING
CURRICULUM.
>>
I WAS IN SCHOOLS THIS MORNING WHERE I THOUGHT TREMENDOUS PROGRESS
WAS GOING ON, BUT IT WAS ALSO MAPPED TO OUR PARTICULAR STANDARDS,
AND THE SCHOOLS HAVE GOOD SUCCESSES IN THEIR STANDARDIZED TESTS.
SO I'M NOT SO SURE IT ALWAYS IS A ONE-TO-ONE CORRELATION THAT
IF WE'RE PREPARING STUDENTS TO MEET THE RIGOR OF THE STANDARDS
THAT WE'RE TAKING AWAY FROM THEM THE CAPACITY TO BE CREATIVE
AND PROJECT-BASED AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
>>
Matt Cummings: DRMACICH SAYS STANDARDIZED TESTS NOT ONLY TAKE
AWAY FROM HIS TEACHERS' ABILITY TO ENGAGE STUDENTS IN A MORE
NON-TRADITIONAL CURRICULUM BUT ALSO PUT UNDUE PRESSURE ON STUDENTS
TO PERFORM.
>>
NUMBER ONE, NOT ALL KIDS ARE GOOD TEST-TAKERS. YOU CAN HAVE
THE SMARTEST KID IN THE WORLD WHO SITS DOWN FOR A STANDARDIZED
TEST AND SIMPLY FREEZES UP AND DOESN'T DO VERY WELL. ALL THE
RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT KIDS HAVE DIFFERENT LEARNING STYLES
AND LEARNING STYLES SUCH AS THAT OF VISUAL OR AUDIO OR KINESTHETIC
OR TACTILE IN TERMS OF TOUCHING THINGS, AS WELL AS INTELLIGENCE
DOMAINS, MUST MEAN THEN THAT YOU DON'T ONLY APPLY THAT IDEA
TO TEACHING KIDS BUT YOU ALSO APPLY IT TO ASSESSMENT.
>> Matt Cummings: DRMACICH SAYS HE'S NOT ALONE IN HIS ASSESSMENT
OF STANDARDIZED TESTING. HE SAYS ALMOST EVERY MAJOR EDUCATIONAL
RESEARCH ORGANIZATION IN THE COUNTRY CLAIMS THESE TESTS ARE
UNRELIABLE FOR ASSESSING STUDENTS' RETENTION AND UNDERSTANDING
OF THEIR COURSEWORK.
>>
OUR ARGUMENT FOR YEARS IS THAT WE'RE NOT AGAINST HIGH STANDARDS.
WE'RE 100% IN FAVOR OF THEM, AND WE WANT TO MEET WHATEVER MINIMUM
STANDARDS THE STATE HAS SET, BUT DON'T RESTRICT US WITH SO MANY
CONTENT STANDARDS THAT WE CAN'T ALLOW KIDS TO EXPLORE THEIR
INTERESTS.
(Music)
>>
Gary Walker: JOINING ME IN STUDIO TO DISCUSS STANDARDIZED TESTING
OF OUR CHILDREN ARE Dr. RICHARD RYAN OF THE PSYCHOLOGY AND PSYCHIATRY
DEPARTMENTS OF THE U OF R. HE'S RESEARCHED THE IMPACT OF STANDARDIZED
TESTING ON TEACHERS AND CLASSROOM MOTIVATION. BILL CALA IS A
SUPERINTENDENT OF THE FAIRPORT SCHOOL DISTRICT. WE ALSO HAVE
RALPH SPEZZIO. HE'S THE PRINCIPAL OF SCHOOL NUMBER 17 HERE IN
THE CITY. AS WELL, JOSE MORA, SCHOOL NUMBER 17'S VICE-PRINCIPAL.
THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US. AND PARTICULARLY TO RALPH AND
JOSE FOR COMING ON AT THE LAST MINUTE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE APPRECIATE THAT. LET ME BEGIN BY JUST REITERATING SOMETHING.
YOU KNOW, IN A SENSE, STANDARDIZED TESTING, IF YOU HAVE A REGENTS
DIPLOMA, YOU'RE QUITE USED TO STANDARDIZED TESTING. BUT LOCAL
DIPLOMAS FROM SCHOOLS PRETTY MUCH RELIED ON THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT
OR THE COMMUNITY'S STANDARDS FOR WHAT WOULD DETERMINE WHAT YOU
NEEDED TO GRADUATE AND HAVE THAT DIPLOMA. NOW, BASED ON THAT,
LET MY FIRST QUESTION TO ALL OF YOU BE THIS: IF LOCAL DIPLOMAS
WERE A ROUSING SUCCESS, WOULD WE BE EVEN HERE TALKING ABOUT
THIS TOPIC?
>>
THERE CERTAINLY WERE PROBLEMS WITH MINIMUM COMPETENCIES IN NEW
YORK STATE. THE REGENTS COMPETENCY TESTS WERE VERY LOW-LEVEL
TESTS, AND THAT'S WHERE THE EFFORT REALLY SHOULD HAVE STARTED
RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING. HOWEVER, THE RESPONSE FROM THE STATE
WAS TO TINKER WITH THE WHOLE SYSTEM, TO TINKER WITH THE UPPER
END. SO NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT KIDS WHO GET THE OLD REGENTS DIPLOMA,
WHICH WAS EIGHT REGENTS EXAMS, AND NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING
THAT IS MUCH LESS. WE'RE LOOKING AT A REGENTS DIPLOMA THAT ONLY
REQUIRES FIVE REGENTS EXAMS. THIS IS CLEARLY, FOR 51% OF THE
STUDENT BODY IN NEW YORK STATE, A LOWERING OF STANDARDS.
>>
Gary Walker: LET ME JUST -- AGAIN, I KNOW IT'S A HOT TOPIC AMONG
EDUCATORS, BUT ALSO WHEN I TALK TO PARENTS AND I TALK TO MOST
FOLKS, THEY WILL SAY THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT THE COMPETENCY LEVEL
OR THE SHARED KNOWLEDGE THAT HIGH SCHOOL KIDS ARE GRADUATING
WITH THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO SUCCEED IN LIFE HAVE LOWERED OR
ARE FALTERING. WE HAVE BUSINESSES HERE IN ROCHESTER THAT ACTUALLY
HAVE REMEDIAL ENGLISH AND REMEDIAL MATH PROGRAMS FOR NEW-HIRES,
AND THESE ARE FOLKS WITH HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS. I GUESS WHAT
I'M TRYING TO ESTABLISH IS DID WE HAVE A PROBLEM THAT THIS IS
TRYING TO ADDRESS?
>>
AGAIN, THE PROBLEM WAS AT THE MINIMUM COMPETENCY LEVEL. I TAKE
ISSUE WITH THE FACT THAT SCHOOLS ARE PRODUCING AT A POORER RATE
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT. I THINK THE MEASUREMENTS THAT DO EXIST,
HOWEVER VALID WE WANT TO SAY THAT THOSE MEASUREMENTS ARE, INDICATE
A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF KIDS ARE GOING TO COLLEGE, A GREATER
PERCENTAGE OF KIDS ARE TAKING SATs MORE AND MORE KIDS ARE TAKING
ADVANCED PLACEMENT COURSES IN COLLEGE THAN EVER BEFORE. SO OUR
KIDS ARE ACTUALLY DOING, AS A WHOLE, ARE DOING BETTER THAN THEY
HAVE EVER DONE BEFORE. THE ISSUE WAS RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING
MINIMUM COMPETENCY. BUT DON'T SELL SHORT THAT THIS IS A POLITICAL
SOUND BITE, THIS MOVEMENT IS.
>>
Gary Walker: OKAY, FOLKS. Mr. SPEZZIO, YOU ARE SOUNDLY IN A
CORNER FOR STANDARDS. I GUESS THE FIRST QUESTION OFFERED FROM
FOLKS WHO ARE OPPOSED TO STANDARDS IS THAT THESE TESTS ARE VIRTUALLY
MEANINGLESS. THEY ARE NOT A GOOD GAUGE OF LEARNING; THEY ARE
NOT A GOOD MEASURE OF STUDENT RETENTION.
>>
GARY, I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD SEE THE DAY PROFESSIONALLY IN
MY CAREER WHEN WE HAD SUCH FOCUS AND CLARITY TO WHAT CHILDREN
NEED TO KNOW AND BE ABLE TO DO. I MEAN WE ARE CELEBRATING THIS.
BEFORE, WE HAD A CURRICULUM THAT WAS ONE-INCH THICK AND A MILE
WIDE. AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT WE LITERALLY WERE SHOOTING
DARTS IN THE DARK. NO CLARITY... I MEAN FOR AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL,
AND I SPEAK FOR THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL NOW AS I'M AN ELEMENTARY
SCHOOL PRINCIPAL. WE NOW KNOW EXACTLY -- WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE
AS TO WHAT CHILDREN NEED TO KNOW AND BE ABLE TO DO. WE'RE ABLE
TO MONITOR THAT. WE'RE ABLE TO HAVE ALL TEACHERS, EVEN NEW TEACHERS,
COME ON BOARD RAPIDLY IN THEIR SKILLS. AND SOMETHING ELSE ALSO
THAT I THINK PERHAPS THE PUBLIC DOESN'T KNOW AS A WHOLE IS THAT
OUR SUPERINTENDENT, WHICH I BELIEVE HAS SHOWED COURAGEOUS LEADERSHIP
AND INSIGHT AND VISION, HAS CREATED -- HE'S THE ONLY URBAN SUPERINTENDENT
IN THE UNITED STATES THAT HAS SET BENCHMARKS TIED DIRECTLY AND
ALIGNED TO THE NEW YORK STATE STANDARDS FOR OUR GROWTH. IN OTHER
WORDS, HE'S PUT ACCOUNTABILITY RIGHT ON THE FRONT TABLE.
>>
Gary Walker: OKAY. I WANT TO TALK TO PROFESSOR RYAN HERE BECAUSE
HE HAS SAID THAT WHERE THE CURRICULUM IN THE PAST WAS VAGUE
AND IT'S SHARPER NOW, ARE YOU SAYING THAT THAT MAY BE BUT THESE
TESTS ARE STILL NOT GOING TO DETERMINE WHAT THESE KIDS HAVE
LEARNED?
>>
WELL, THE FIRST THING I WANT TO SAY IS THAT THE STATE'S OWN
EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT THESE TESTS ARE POORLY ALIGNED WITH STATE
STANDARDS. THE STATE'S OWN STUDIES SHOW THAT THERE'S ONLY A
20% ALIGNMENT AT BEST BETWEEN THE STATE STANDARDS AND WHAT'S
MEASURED ON THESE TEST THEMSELVES. IN ADDITION TO THAT, THESE
TESTS HAVE SHOWN WILDLY FLUCTUATING PASSAGE RATES THAT ARE OFTEN
USED AS INDEXES OF PROGRESS AND THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THAT THAT'S
IN FACT A REASONABLE INTERPRETATION OF WHAT HAPPENS ON TEST-TO-TEST
CHANGES IN THESE.
>> Gary Walker: SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO
BE TESTED ON THEY'RE NOT BEING TAUGHT IN THESE STANDARDS BASICALLY?
>>
I'M SAYING THE STANDARDS ARE NOT BEING REPRESENTED IN THESE
TESTS, AND THESE TESTS REPRESENT A VERY NARROW BAND OF THE STANDARDS.
FOR INSTANCE, THE STANDARDS ASK FOR STUDENTS TO LEARN ORAL COMMUNICATION.
THESE TESTS DON'T TAP ORAL COMMUNICATION. THE STANDARD ASKS
FOR CRITICAL THINKING. THESE TESTS, AND AGAIN THE STATE'S OWN
EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT CRITICAL THINKING IS NOT TAPPED, OR VERY
FEW QUESTIONS ON THESE TAP CRITICAL THINKING. MOSTLY WRITING,
SHORT ANSWER -- THEY'RE VERY POOR MEASURES EVEN OF THE STATE
STANDARDS. NOBODY HERE IS AGAINST HIGHER STANDARDS IF...
>>
Gary Walker: I THINK IT'S SAFE TO SAY WE'RE ALL FOR HIGHER STANDARDS.
WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW DO WE MEASURE THAT? Mr. MORA, YOU
STUDIED THIS. WEIGH IN HERE.
>> I DISAGREE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT WITH THE IDEA THAT IT DOESN'T
MEASURE CRITICAL THINKING OR WRITING. THE STANDARDS ARE -- AND
I HAVE A PART OF THE TEST THAT WE JUST ADMINISTERED THIS JANUARY.
IN HERE, THE STANDARDS ARE BROAD ENOUGH TO ALLOW TEACHERS AND
ADMINISTRATORS TO DEFINE AUTHENTIC PRACTICE AROUND WHAT THE
STANDARDS ARE ARTICULATING. IN TERMS OF THE TEST, WHETHER THEY
MEASURE IT, I DO AGREE THAT A LOT OF THE TESTING THAT WE HAD
BEFORE THIS ONE WAS VERY SUPERFICIAL.
>>
Gary Walker: SO YOU'RE SAYING WE HAD TO IMPROVE IT, RIGHT?
>>
THE TEST HAS IMPROVED.
>>
Gary Walker: I JUST WANT TO TURN TO Mr. CALA AND ASK YOU ONE
QUESTION. WE GET THIS A LOT WHEN WE TALK TO JUST EVERY DAY FOLKS
ABOUT THIS WHO ARE COMING AT THIS IN A NEWSPAPER AND TELEVISION
SENSE WONDERING WHAT IS GOING ON AND I THINK A QUESTION THEY
ALWAYS HAVE TO ASK US IS, "WELL, IF NOT THIS, ARE YOU SAYING
THAT THERE IS NO MEASURE THAT WE COULD MEASURE OUR STUDENTS
AND COMPARE THEM TO OTHER STUDENTS IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY
FOR MINIMUM COMPETENCIES OR FOR AT LEAST THE COMPETENCY LEVEL
THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE GRADUATING FROM HIGH SCHOOL?" IS THERE
NOTHING FOR IT?
>>
OH, THERE'S PLENTY. I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THIS TEST. I DO BELIEVE
THAT THE NEW FOURTH GRADE TESTS ARE BETTER THAN THE THIRD GRADE
PREP TESTS THAT THEY HAD IN THE PAST. HOWEVER, WE CANNOT MEASURE
WHAT A CHILD KNOWS BY ONE MEASUREMENT. IT'S TANTAMOUNT TO A
TEST OF ONE'S CHOLESTEROL OR A TEST OF ONE'S BLOOD PRESSURE
AND WHERE WE GET A 20 TO 30% VARIANCE ALMOST STANDARD. WHEN
THAT HAPPENS IN THE MEDICAL FIELD, WE LOOK AT OTHER MEASUREMENTS
AND OTHER TESTS TO SAY, "LET'S LOOK AT THIS AGAIN TO SEE IF
THIS REALLY IS THE ISSUE." SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS WE DON'T
WANT A SNAPSHOT, WHICH THESE TESTS ARE; WE WANT A PHOTO ALBUM.
>>
Gary Walker: OKAY. THOSE ANTI-TESTING, IF NOT THIS, WHAT?
>> I'LL JUST SPEAK TO ONE OTHER ISSUE. IT'S AGAIN NOT AN ISSUE
SO MUCH WITH THE TESTS, ALTHOUGH I DO THINK THERE ARE STILL
CONSTRUCTION ISSUES WITH THESE TESTS. IT'S THE USE OF THESE
TESTS IN HIGH-STAKES MANNERS AND THROUGH PRESSURE FROM THE STATE.
WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THAT IT'S CROWDING OUT OTHER VERY ENRICHED
CURRICULUMS, WAYS OF REACHING STUDENTS, WAYS OF PULLING KIDS
INTO SCHOOLS. THE DROPOUT RATE HAS INCREASED DRAMATICALLY SINCE
THE INSTITUTION OF THESE TESTS, A 25% INCREASE IN THE DROPOUT
RATE IN NEW YORK STATE OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS SINCE THE REGENTS
PROGRAM HAS BEEN INSTITUTED. THESE ARE REAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE
HIGH-STAKES USE OF TESTS. I HAVE DONE OBJECTIVE TESTS, AND I
AGREE WITH JOSE THAT THESE ARE BETTER TESTS THAN SOME PREVIOUS
ONES. I THINK THE ISSUE IS THEIR HIGH-STAKES USE AND THE PRESSURE.
WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE CITY IS THAT PRINCIPALS ARE BEING TOLD
IF IT'S NOT GOING TO BE ON THE TEST, DO NOT HAVE IT IN YOUR
CURRICULUM. IF IT'S NOT LIKELY TO BE ON THE TEST, DON'T HAVE
IT IN YOUR CURRICULUM.
>>
Gary Walker: IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING YOUR TEACHERS?
>>
ABSOLUTELY NOT. AGAIN, I SPEAK FOR ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, GARY.
I THINK THE FOUR OF US AGREE WITH MORE THAN WE DISAGREE; HOWEVER,
I CAN TELL YOU THAT WITH -- SEE, WE HAVE A STANDARDS-BASED SCHOOL
AND STANDARDS-BASED CLASSROOM WITH DEPTH. NOW THAT MEANS THAT
THE STANDARDS ARE -- THE GOOD THING ON THIS IS YOU COULD TEACH
TO THE TEST IN YEARS PAST. YOU COULD DO THAT, AND IT WAS DONE.
YOU TAUGHT TO THAT TEST AND YOU GOT A SUPERFICIAL, UNREALISTIC
-- YOU CAN'T TEACH TO THIS. CHILDREN HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO THINK.
THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GATHER DATA, PUT THEIR THOUGHTS ON PAPER
IN A LOGICAL, CLEAR WAY, AND THE ELEMENTARY CLASSROOMS ARE DESIGNED
TO GIVE THOSE CHILDREN THE THINKING SKILLS, THE LOGIC SKILLS
AND ALL THE THINGS THAT THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO PERFORM. THE
STANDARDS ARE WHAT DO CHILDREN NEED TO KNOW AND BE ABLE TO DO?
>>
Gary Walker: LET ME JUST SAY THIS. AS I SAID, THIS IS SUCH A
VERY DEEP TOPIC AND EVEN OUR TIME HERE IS COMING CLOSE. I WANT
TO DO THIS. I WANT TO GIVE YOU EACH LIKE 25 OR 30 SECONDS, AND
I WANT YOU TO TALK TO THE PEOPLE AND MAKE YOUR BEST CASE FOR
WHAT YOU BELIEVE. I'M GOING TO START WITH Mr. CALA.
>>
MY BEST CASE IS IN THE WORDS OF RICHARD MILLS. IN AN ESSAY CALLED
"TEACHING TO NEW STANDARDS," ABOUT THE USE OF PORTFOLIOS IN
VERMONT, IT WAS WRITTEN THAT "RICHARD MILLS, ALONG WITH ASSOCIATE
ROSS BREWER, RECOGNIZED THAT HIGH-STAKES CONSEQUENCES WOULD
ALIENATE TEACHERS AND JEOPARDIZE THEIR MOST IMPORTANT GOAL:
IMPROVING TEACHING IN VERMONT'S PUBLIC SCHOOLS." AND HERE'S
MILLS HIMSELF WRITING IN "SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR" IN 1989: "PORTFOLIOS
MAY BECOME THE OCCASION FOR IMPROMPTU DISCUSSIONS. "WHY IS THIS
POEM YOU WROTE TODAY SO ALIVE WHILE THE ONE YOU WROTE LAST MONTH
WANDERS?" TEACHERS DON'T WANT TO REDUCE THE RICHNESS OF A YEAR'S
WORK TO A SINGLE SCORE. WE ARE UNDERTAKING THIS MASSIVE PROJECT
BECAUSE WE'RE INTERESTED IN REAL STUDENT WORK, REAL PERFORMANCE,
NOT THE PROXY DELIVERED BY STANDARDIZED SHORT-ANSWER TESTS,"
RICHARD MILLS.
>>
Gary Walker: OKAY. RICHARD MILLS BEING THE STATE EDUCATION COMMISSIONER.
Mr. SPEZZIO, GO.
>>
WELL, GARY, I THINK THE NEW YORK STATE STANDARDS GIVE CLARITY
AND FOCUS SO THAT ALL TEACHERS, PARENTS, CHILDREN, ADMINISTRATORS,
DISTRICTS ARE ON THE SAME PAGE. WE CAN MEASURE THIS; WE CAN
MOVE FORWARD. WE KNOW WHAT IS IMPORTANT, WHAT CHILDREN NEED
TO BE ABLE TO LEARN AND TO DO TO HAVE A SUCCESSFUL LIFE IN OUR
CURRENT SOCIETY. THIS IS ONE TIME I CAN TELL YOU IN OVER 30
YEARS AS AN EDUCATOR THAT I FEEL THAT WE ARE MOVING FORWARD
IN A WAY THAT'S GOING TO HELP CHILDREN IN A MEASURABLE WAY IN
THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, AND IN MY SCHOOL I KNOW FOR A FACT.
>>
Gary Walker: Mr. MORA?
>>
STANDARDS ARE BROAD ENOUGH TO ALLOW TEACHERS AND PROFESSIONAL
EDUCATORS TO DESIGN AUTHENTIC PRACTICES OR ACTIVITIES AROUND
THEM. THE TESTS, YOU CANNOT PASS THE TESTS ONLY THROUGH THE
MULTIPLE CHOICE PART. YOU MUST DEMONSTRATE THAT YOU KNOW HOW
TO READ AND TO ARTICULATE YOUR KNOWLEDGE IN WRITING.
>>
Gary Walker: OKAY. Mr. RYAN, YOU CAN HAVE THE LAST WORD. PROFESSOR?
>> IN 25 YEARS AS A RESEARCHER AND EDUCATOR, IT IS THE MOST
DESTRUCTIVE PROGRAM I HAVE EVER SEEN INSTITUTED ON THE STATE
LEVEL. WHAT IT IS DOING IS CROWDING OUT DIVERSITY; IT DOESN'T
RECOGNIZE THE DIFFERENT WAYS IN WHICH CHILDREN LEARN. EVERYBODY
IS BEING FORCED INTO A SINGLE MOLD. IT HURTS VOCATIONAL EDUCATION;
IT HURTS SPECIAL EDUCATION; IT HURTS GIFTED CHILDREN; IT HURTS
EVERY CHILD WHEN WE TRY AND PUT THEM ALL INTO ONE METRIC AND
MEASURE THEM ONLY THROUGH THAT ONE MEANS.
>>
Gary Walker: WE HAVE A DEFINITE DIFFERENCE IN OPINION HERE,
AND IT'S A TOPIC THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE LOOKING VERY
SERIOUSLY AT IN THE FUTURE. THESE ARE ALL FOLKS WHO ARE TOPS
IN THEIR FIELD, VERY SERIOUS EDUCATORS, WITH A VERY SERIOUS
DISAGREEMENT ABOUT HOW TO TEST OUR CHILDREN. THANK YOU ALL FOR
JOINING ME. I DO APPRECIATE THAT. NOW, YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED
SOME PRANCING AROUND TOWN, AND YOU SHOULD KNOW THERE'S 158 OF
THEM. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HORSES, ROCHESTER'S HORSES ON PARADE,
THE CITY'S NEW COMMUNITY ART PROJECT. WXXI HAS BEEN FOLLOWING
THIS STORY FOR EIGHT MONTHS, SINCE ITS BEGINNING, AND WE'RE
CURRENTLY WORKING ON A HORSES ON PARADE DOCUMENTARY. WXXI'S
KEVIN MEYERS HAS A PREVIEW.
(Music)
>>
THEY WERE CORRALLED INTO A COLD, BARREN WAREHOUSE, STANDING
AS A BLANK, WHITE CANVAS, WAITING WITH CURIOUS ANTICIPATION
TO BE TRANSFORMED INTO ONE OF ROCHESTER'S MOST EXCITING PUBLIC
ART EVENTS.
>>
IT'S SUCH A HAPPENING. IT'S GOING TO INVOLVE THE WHOLE COMMUNITY,
THE ART COMMUNITY, THE COMMUNITY OF ROCHESTER, AND MAKE THEM
AWARE OF ALL THE WONDERFUL LOCAL TALENT, ALL THE WONDERFUL ARTISTS
THAT WE HAVE IN ROCHESTER.
>>
ARTISTS THROUGHOUT THE REGION HAVE COME OUT OF THE GATE RUNNING,
SUBMITTING OVER 600 DESIGNS FOR HORSES ON PARADE, A COMMUNITY
ARTS PROJECT OF THE HIGH FALLS BREWERY.
>>
HORSES ON PARADE IS AN EXCITING COMMUNITY ART PROJECT THAT WORLD-CLASS
CITIES ACROSS OUR COUNTRY HAVE EMBARKED UPON. WE WERE LUCKY
ENOUGH TO HAVE THE HIGH FALLS BREWING COMPANY JUMP ON BOARD
AND FACILITATE HORSES ON PARADE IN ROCHESTER. THEY CERTAINLY
SAW THE EXCITEMENT IT WOULD BRING TO OUR COMMUNITY AND IT'S
A WIN/WIN. EVERYONE WINS.
>> I THINK THIS EVENT HAS PROVEN IN OTHER CITIES TO ATTRACT
LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO OUT OF CURIOSITY WILL COME INTO THE CITY
TO REALLY SEE THESE, AND I THINK IT ALSO HELPS TO ESTABLISH
A VERY IMPORTANT LINK BETWEEN THE CITY, ITS CULTURE AND A VERY,
VERY SIGNIFICANT BUSINESS THAT WE ARE CELEBRATING.
>>
WE HAVE JEAN HOWARD HERE FROM THE WILSON COMMENCEMENT PARK,
ONE OF THE DOWNTOWN...
>>
TO DATE, HORSES ON PARADE HAS GARNERED OVER $130,000 FOR LOCAL
CHARITIES. AND WHEN THE HORSES ARE AUCTIONED OFF IN SEPTEMBER,
HIGH FALLS BREWERY IS HOPING TO RAISE THAT AMOUNT TO NEAR ONE
MILLION IN CHARITABLE DONATIONS.
>>
WE WERE LOOKING FOR A BIG EVENT, SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE REALLY
MEANINGFUL TO ROCHESTER AND WOULD CREATE SOME COMMUNITY PRIDE
WITHIN OUR COMPANY, FOR THE CONSUMERS OF OUR PRODUCTS, BUT ALSO
FOR THE COMMUNITY THAT WOULD BE REALLY BIG.
>>
AREA ARTISTS WERE ALSO LOOKING FOR THAT BIG EVENT, A TURNING
POINT IN ART AWARENESS AND APPRECIATION. WITH THE QUEST TO STRENGTHEN
RELATIONSHIPS WITH BUSINESS SPONSORS AND PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT,
MANY OF THE ARTISTS HAVE INVITED THE PUBLIC TO BE PART OF THE
CREATIVE PROCESS.
>>
THE PUBLIC HAS AN OPPORTUNITY, SINCE THEY HAVE ALREADY STARTED,
TO SEE AND HEAR ABOUT THIS HORSE PROJECT. THEY GET AN OPPORTUNITY
TO SEE ONE UP CLOSE AND GET A FEEL FOR IT THAT WAY. I THINK
IT'S EDUCATIONAL FOR THE PUBLIC THAT DOES GET TO SEE THEM AT
THIS MID-STAGE. THEY WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET A GLIMPSE
OF MAYBE THE CREATIVE PROCESS AND HOW IT WORKS AND CHANGES OVER
THE COURSE OF TIME.
>>
IT'S SUCH A COMPLIMENT FOR EVERYONE, FOR EVERY AGENCY, FOR SPONSORS
AND FOR US AS ARTISTS, AND FOR THE PUBLIC, THAT WE WANT THE
PUBLIC PART OF OUR CREATION. AND WHAT BETTER PLACE TO DO IT
THAN IN A SPACE THAT'S OVER 1,500 SQUARE FEET WITH BEAUTIFUL
FRONT WINDOWS AND PEOPLE CAN WATCH US FROM OUTSIDE IF THEY CHOOSE
TO OR COME IN?
>>
THE WHOLE CONCEPT BEHIND THIS HORSE IS THAT EACH PENNY OR EACH
PERSON THAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE WHOLE MAKES UP THE WHOLE. ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN IMPORTANT FOR ME IS TO BE ABLE
TO SHARE THE CREATIVE PROCESS WITH OTHER PEOPLE. SO IT KIND
OF FELL IN -- THE CONCEPT FELL INTO PLACE FOR ME ABOUT PENNY.
SO THIS HORSE HAS BEEN PUT TOGETHER ENTIRELY BY VOLUNTEERS.
THIS IS ONE OF THEM. THIS IS ROBIN. ROBIN AND MANY OTHERS HAVE
COME IN AND PLACED ALL THE PENNIES ENTIRELY.
>>
FROM GLASS TO METAL, FROM PAINT TO PLASTIC, THIS SUMMER OVER
150 LIFE-SIZED HORSE SCULPTURES WILL BE GRAZING THROUGHOUT AREA
STREETS. ROCHESTER WILL ESSENTIALLY BECOME ONE OF THE LARGEST
OPEN AIR GALLERIES, SPARKING CONVERSATION ON EVERY CORNER.
(Music)
>>
Gary Walker: ALL THE HORSES WILL BE UNVEILED BY TOMORROW. JOINING
ME NOW IS WXXI'S KEVIN MEYERS. KEVIN HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THE
STORY SINCE THE BEGINNING AND IS PRODUCING OUR DOCUMENTARY.
KEVIN? THANK YOU.
>>
Kevin Meyers: THANK YOU, GARY.
>>
Gary Walker: NICE-LOOKING PIECE. OKAY. YOU ASKED ME NOT TO ASK
YOU THIS BUT HEY, I'M THE HOST. WHY HORSES?
>>
Kevin Meyers: WHY HORSES? WELL, THERE'S BEEN SOME SPECULATION
ABOUT BEING TIED IN WITH THE HIGH FALLS BREWERY AND THEIR TWELVE-HORSE
PRODUCT.
>>
Gary Walker: TWELVE-HORSE ALE.
>>
Kevin Meyers: TWELVE-HORSE ALE. BUT THAT'S NEVER BEEN CONFIRMED.
ACTUALLY, I THINK HOWIE DICKINSON REALLY JUST HAS A FONDNESS
FOR HORSES, AND WHEN THEY SAW THE HORSES, THE FIBREGLASS FIGURES,
AND SAW HOW BEAUTIFUL THEY WERE, THEY DECIDED, "YES, LET'S DO
HORSES."
>>
Gary Walker: I SUPPOSE LILACS WOULD HAVE BEEN KIND OF...YOU
KNOW, TWELVE FOOT...(Chuckling)
>>
Kevin Meyers: TWELVE-FOOT LILACS...WE HAVE ENOUGH LILACS AROUND
THE CITY, I'M SURE.
>>
Gary Walker: THEY'RE GOING TO BE DISPERSED ALL AROUND -- IS
IT MONROE COUNTY OR A LARGER AREA?
>>
Kevin Meyers: IT'S MOSTLY MONROE COUNTY. GENERALLY AS FAR OUT
AS LIKE EASTVIEW MALL IN -- AS FAR OUT AS BROCKPORT. BUT MOST
OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. IF YOU'VE BEEN
WALKING AROUND DOWNTOWN, YOU HAVE SEEN MANY OF THEM OUT ON THE
STREET CORNERS ALREADY.
>>
Gary Walker: YOU HAVE BEEN COVERING ARTS AND CULTURE IN THIS
COMMUNITY FOR AWHILE NOW, KEVIN. WHAT'S THIS DONE FOR THE CITY
ARTS COMMUNITY?
>>
Kevin Meyers: WELL, WHAT IT DOES, GARY, IS IT REALLY REGENERATES
SOME PRIDE IN OUR COMMUNITY SPIRIT, GETTING SOME ACKNOWLEDGMENT
FOR THE WEALTH OF ARTISTIC TALENT THAT WE HAVE HERE IN ROCHESTER.
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT'S DEVELOPING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN
THE ARTISTS AND OUR BUSINESS SECTOR. THAT RELATIONSHIP HASN'T
BEEN THERE FOR QUITE AWHILE, AND THIS IS REALLY BRINGING THEM
TOGETHER. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE HORSES THAT IS OUT ON
THE STREET CORNERS HAS A CONNECTION WITH 400 TO 500 PEOPLE BECAUSE
YOU MAY KNOW THE ARTIST OR YOU MAY BE AN EMPLOYEE OF ONE OF
THE BUSINESS SPONSORS. SO IT'S REALLY PULLING THE WHOLE COMMUNITY
TOGETHER.
>>
Gary Walker: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU A QUICK LAST QUESTION: WHEN
DOES YOUR DOCUMENTARY AIR?
>>
Kevin Meyers: THE DOCUMENTARY IS GOING TO AIR ON SATURDAY, JUNE
16th AT 8 p.m. SO VIEWERS WILL WANT TO MARK YOUR CALENDARS FOR
THAT DATE, 8 p.m. ON JUNE 16th. IT'S AN HOUR-LONG DOCUMENTARY
FOLLOWING NOT ONLY THE CREATIVE PROCESS BEHIND THIS PROJECT
BUT ALSO THE COMMUNITY SPIRIT THAT'S GENERATING IT.
>>
Gary Walker: "HORSES ON PARADE" PRODUCER KEVIN MEYERS RIGHT
HERE FROM WXXI. THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR THIS WEEK. NEXT WEEK
"NEED TO KNOW" TAKES A LOOK AT ROCHESTER'S TIME CAPSULE FOR
THE NEXT CENTURY. UNTIL THEN, I'M GARY WALKER. GOOD-BYE.
(Music)