>>
Gary Walker: NEXT ON "NEED
TO KNOW," MONROE COUNTY
GOVERNMENT COULD BE
SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER.
THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE ADDS TO
THE LOCAL CHORUS OF
COST-REDUCTION ANNOUNCEMENTS.
JACK DOYLE HAS UNVEILED A
SWEEPING PLAN TO CLOSE WHAT HE
SAYS IS A $23 MILLION BUDGET
GAP IN THIS FISCAL YEAR.
TONIGHT, WE'LL INTERVIEW THE
COUNTY EXECUTIVE ABOUT THE JOB
CUTS AND ABOUT HIS PLANS FOR
NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET REDUCTIONS.
WE'LL ALSO TALK WITH ELLEN
ROSEN OF THE "DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE" FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "THE BUSINESS
SECTION."
IT'S ALL AHEAD ON "NEED TO
KNOW."
(Music)
>> Jack Doyle: I DON'T SEE
KEEPING FAITH WITH THE
TAXPAYERS AS PAINTINGOURSELVES US INTO THE CORNER.
I SEE RAISING TAXES AS PUTTING
THE TAXPAYERS IN THE CORNER
AND PAINTING THEM IN.
>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE
ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH
NEWS PROGRAM.
"NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION
OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES,
POLITICS, EDUCATION AND
CURRENT EVENTS.
>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS
JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL
LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT
OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>> Gary Walker: THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US.
I'M GARY WALKER.
IN A STARK WARNING ABOUT NEXT
YEAR'S MONROE COUNTY FINANCES,
COUNTY EXECUTIVE JACK DOYLE
HAS ANNOUNCED A PLAN TO CUT
700 JOBS, PART OF A PLAN TO
REDUCE THE $955 MILLION COUNTYBUDGET.
IN HIS ANNOUNCEMENT LAST WEEK,
DOYLE ALSO PROJECTED A 2003
BUDGET SHORTFALL THAT HE SAYS
COULD TOTAL AS MUCH AS $65
MILLION.
DOYLE'S APPROACH TO CLOSING
THE BUDGET SHORTFALL HINGES ON
CUTTING EXPENSES.
BUT THE CUTS ARE DRAMATIC AND
CONTROVERSIAL, AND THEY'RE NOT
A SURE THING.
AMONG THEM, DEPARTMENT MERGERS
AND CUTBACKS IN COUNTY PARKS
AND ORGANIZATIONS.
BY CLOSING THE PARKS DURING
THE WEEK, DOYLE HOPES TO SAVE
MORE THAN $2 MILLION.
HE SEEKS TO SAVE MILLIONS MORE
BY ENDING COUNTY MONEY FOR
TOWN ROAD MAINTENANCE AND BY
DOING AWAY WITH THE ASSIGNED
COUNSEL PROGRAM.
HE WILL CUT FUNDING TO A
NUMBER OF PROGRAMS, INCLUDING
THE PUBLIC LIBRARY SYSTEM.
DOYLE SAYS THE BIGGEST SAVINGS
WILL COME FROM MERGING THE
SOCIAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT
WITH THE DEPARTMENTS OF MENTAL
HEALTH, AGING AND THE YOUTH
BUREAU.
ALL OF THIS WILL LEAD TO 700
JOB CUTS, INCLUDING HUNDREDS
OF LAYOFFS.
BUT WHAT COUNTY EXECUTIVE
DOYLE WILL NOT DO IS RAISE NEW
REVENUE: READ TAXES.
"NEED TO KNOW's" MICHAEL
CAPUTO TAKES A BRIEF LOOK AT
THE REVENUE SIDE OF THE
LEDGER.
>> Michael Caputo: EARLY THIS
YEAR, DOYLE ADVISORS GATHERED
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS TO LOOK AT
REMEDIES FOR CURING THE
COUNTY'S BUDGET SHORTFALL.
TWO THINGS WERE OFF THE TABLE.
>> I'VE GOT TO TELL YOU, RIGHT
FROM THE OUTSET, HE WAS DEAD
SET AGAINST EITHER ACTION IN
THOSE TWO AREAS: SALES TAX OR
PROPERTY TAX INCREASE.
>> Michael Caputo: TO DOYLE,
KEEPING TAXES FLAT AMOUNTS TO
KEEPING A PROMISE MADE BY
REPUBLICANS EVEN BEFORE HE
TOOK OFFICE IN 1995.
HIS PREDECESSOR, REPUBLICAN
ROBERT KING, ASKED FOR A PENNY
INCREASE IN THE SALES TAX IN
THE EARLY 1990s.
HE VOWED THAT THE PENNY HIKE
IN THE SALES TAX WOULD KEEP
PROPERTY TAXES FLAT.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE COUNTY HAS
DONE SINCE.
THE AMOUNT OF MONEY COLLECTED
FROM PROPERTY OWNERS HAS
STAYED FLAT.
>> RAISING TAXES IS NOT THE
SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM.
>> Michael Caputo: DURING THE
FLUSH YEARS, DOYLE RESISTED
THE CALL BY COUNTY LEGISLATIVE
DEMOCRATS TO CUT PROPERTY
TAXES.
>> WE WERE TOLD BY THE OTHERSIDE OF THE AISLE THAT IF
WE
HAD THE PROPERTY TAX CUTS THAT
WE SHOULD HAVE HAD, THAT THEY
WANTED TO SAVE THIS MONEY FOR
A RAINY DAY.
WELL, WHERE IS THE MONEY ON A
RAINY DAY?
IT ISN'T HERE.
>> Michael Caputo: DOYLE
ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS SAY
THAT HAD THEY CUT PROPERTY
TAXES A FEW YEARS AGO, THE
SITUATION WOULD BE FAR WORSE.
THE COUNTY REALIZED A $60
MILLION JUMP IN SALES TAXES IN
THE EARLY 1990s, WHEN IT WAS
RAISED BY A PENNY,
BUT IN RECENT YEARS, THE
COUNTY SHARE HAS TAILED OFF
DUE TO SALES TAX SHARING
ARRANGEMENTS WITH LOCAL
MUNICIPALITIES AND SUBURBAN
SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
COULD THE COUNTY GO FOR
ANOTHER SALES TAX INCREASE?
NO, SAID DOYLE;THAT WOULD ALSO BURDEN THE
LOCAL ECONOMY.
>> IT'S MY PLEASURE TO BE HERE
THIS EVENING TO TALK ABOUT
COUNTY EXECUTIVE DOYLE'S PLAN
REGARDING THE SECURITIZATION
OF TOBACCO SETTLEMENT RECEIPTS
ON BEHALF OF MONROE COUNTY.
>> Michael Caputo: THE OTHER
BIG INFLUX OF MONEY TO THE
COUNTY OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS
WAS THE $142 MILLION SHARE OF
THE SETTLEMENT FROM A LAWSUIT
GOVERNMENTS FILED AGAINST THE
TOBACCO INDUSTRY.
WHY COULDN'T THE COUNTY JUST
USE THE TOBACCO MONEY TO
BALANCE THE BUDGET?
DOYLE SAID THE MONEY MUST BE
USED FOR LONG-TERM PROJECTS,
ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL LAW.
>> WE COULD NOT TAKE THAT
MONEY AND APPLY IT TO THE
OPERATING BUDGET.
WHY?
IT WOULD VIOLATE STATE LAW;
IT WOULD VIOLATE FEDERAL LAW.
>> Michael Caputo: AND NOT ALL
CONSTRUCTION WORK QUALIFIES.
>> THEY WILL NOT ALLOW US TO
USE IT FOR ROAD CONSTRUCTION.
YOU MIGHT THINK A ROAD IS A
LONG-TERM CAPITAL PROJECT.
IT IS NOT UNDER THE I.R.S.
RULES.
>> Michael Caputo: THE JAIL
EXPANSION PROJECT, HOWEVER,
DOES QUALIFY, AND THE COUNTY
SPENT $41 MILLION OF THAT
TOBACCO MONEY ON IT, SAVING ON
DEBT COSTS.
MECCA SAID THAT SOMEDAY THE
COUNTY MIGHT HAVE TO LOOK AT
RAISING TAXES.
>> IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE
THAT WITH THE GROWTH OF
MANDATED PROGRAMS AND JUST THE
NECESSITIES FOISTED ON US FROM
THE PUBLIC SAFETY AREA ALONE,
YOU COULD REACH A POSITION
WHERE YOU WOULD FIND
REDUCTIONS EXTREMELYDIFFICULT,
IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE.
WE DON'T BELIEVE WE ARE AT
THAT POINT...
>> Gary Walker: THANK YOU,
MICHAEL, FOR THAT REPORT.
JOINING ME IN STUDIO NOW,
COUNTY EXECUTIVE JACK DOYLE.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
>> I'M GLAD TO BE HERE, GARY,
GLAD TO BE HERE.
>> Gary: FIRST QUESTION OUT OF
THE BLOCK, JUST HOW CLOSE ARE
WE, LISTENING TO Mr. MECCA?
HOW CLOSE ARE WE TO ASKING
PROPERTY TAXPAYERS FOR MORE?
>> WE'RE NOT.
WE'RE NOT AT THIS POINT, AND
AS YOUR PIECE POINTED OUT, WE
HAVE A $23 MILLION ANTICIPATED
GAP FOR 2002 AND, FRANKLY,
WE'RE LOOKING AT THE $65
MILLION PIECE FOR 2003.
WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS IN A
PREEMPTIVE WAY, A PRO-ACTIVE
WAY, UNLIKE MORE RECENTLY WHAT
WE SAW WITH THE CITY SCHOOLDISTRICT,
THAT WOKE UP ONE
MORNING WITH THIS HUGE
DEFICIT.
WE'RE NOT IN THAT SITUATION,
BUT WE'RE TAKING THESE STEPS
AND THESE ACTIONS TO PRECLUDE
A PROPERTY TAX INCREASE.
AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE, THAT'S
NOT UNDER CONSIDERATION.
IT'S A DESTRUCTIVE TAX AND IT
HURTS TOO MANY PEOPLE.
>> Gary Walker: LOOKING OUT
ACROSS THE STATE, THOUGH,
BROOME COUNTY, ONTARIO COUNTY,
ULSTER COUNTY, WESTCHESTER
COUNTY ARE ALL LOOKING AT
RAISING PROPERTY TAXES.
>> OH, YEAH.
NASSAU COUNTY...YOU NAME IT.
>> Gary Walker: WHY ARE WE
IMMUNE?
>> WE'RE NOT IMMUNE.
WHAT WE'RE REALLY SAYING IS
THAT THE PROPERTY TAX IS A
DESTRUCTIVE TAX THAT HURTS
FIRST-TIME HOME BUYERS; ITHURTS OUR INDUSTRY;
IT HURTS
OUR BUSINESSES, OUR START-UP
COMPANIES, OUR MINORITY
COMMUNITIES THAT WE WANT --
WHERE WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A
FIRST-TIME HOME OPPORTUNITY TO
STABILIZE THE FAMILY LIFE...
WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS MANY,
MANY ISSUES.
AND THE GREATER ROCHESTER REAL
ESTATE BUREAU HAS BACKED ME UP
ON THAT.
INCREASES IN PROPERTY TAXES
AND A SLIGHT CHANGE IN THE
INTEREST MORTGAGE RATE DEPRIVE
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE OF A
FIRST-TIME HOME OPPORTUNITY.
AND I LIVE IN THE CITY, GARY,
AS YOU KNOW, WHERE I HAVE A
LOT OF YOUNG COUPLES WHO
CURRENTLY RENT AND THEY'RE
LOOKING TO BUY A FIRST-TIME
HOUSE, AND I GET EXPOSED TO
THESE PEOPLE -- THIS IS A
PORTION, AND OF COURSE IT'S A
PORTION OF THE PEOPLE WE'RETRYING TO PROTECT AND OF
COURSE THE ELDERLY.
WE WANT TO KEEP THE ELDERLY IN
THEIR HOMES BECAUSE WE HAVE
85,000 PEOPLE IN MONROE COUNTY
RECEIVING MEDICAID BENEFITS
TODAY, AND IF WE WERE TO FORCE
ELDERLY OUT OF THEIR HOMES,
THAT WOULD DRIVE OUR NUMBERS
EVEN MORE SO.
AND IT IS MEDICAID
FUNDAMENTALLY THAT IS
DESTROYING OUR ABILITY TO
ADDRESS LOCAL ISSUES AND TO
SURVIVE.
>> Gary Walker: THESE ARE
PRETTY BIG NUMBERS YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT.
NOW THIS MORNING, THURSDAY
MORNING, THE DEMOCRATS IN THE
COUNTY LEGISLATURE SAY THEY
WANT TO GO BACK TEN YEARS IN A
SENSE AND CREATE A BLUE RIBBON
COMMISSION, MUCH LIKE BOB KING
DID WHEN HE WAS FACED WITH
MOUNTING DEFICITS AND HE WASENERGIZING EVERYBODY TO SAY
"WE NEED A PENNY SALES TAX
INCREASE."
THEY WOULD LIKE TO CREATE A
BLUE RIBBON COMMISSION LIKE
THAT, TO TAKE AN OUTSIDE LOOK
AT COUNTY FINANCES AND MAYBE
OUTSIDE LOOK AT PRIORITIES FOR
WHAT SHOULD BE CUT.
WOULD YOU SUPPORT SOMETHING
LIKE THAT?
>> NO.
THIS IS A TYPICAL POLITICAL
PIECE BY THE DEMOCRATS.
THEY BELIEVE IN GOVERNMENT BY
COMMITTEE.
THAT'S ONE OF THEIR -- THAT'S
ONE OF THEIR MANTRAS, THAT
COMMITTEES SOLVE ALL SORTS OF
PROBLEMS.
WHAT THEY REALLY ARE TRYING TO
DO IS GET A HANDLE ON THE
EXECUTIVE BUDGET THAT I HAVE
TO PREPARE AND SUBMIT TO THE
TAXPAYER -- SUBMIT TO THE
COUNTY LEGISLATURE IN RELATION
TO THE TAXPAYERS UNDER THE
COUNTY CHARTER.
THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO BE
INVOLVED IN THAT.
THE COUNTY CHARTER IS VERY
CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
IT'S MY OBLIGATION AND
RESPONSIBILITY AS THE CHIEF
ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE COUNTY
TO PREPARE THAT BUDGET, AND
THEN TO SUBMIT IT TO THE
LEGISLATURE FOR THEM TO
CONSIDER.
REALLY WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO
DO HERE I THINK IS ABSOLVE
THEMSELVES OF ANY
RESPONSIBILITY ASSOCIATED WITH
THE BUDGET AND SAY THAT SOME
COMMITTEE THAT THEY HAVE
APPOINTED IS GOING TO STUDY IT
AND COME UP WITH ANSWERS.
WELL, THAT'S NOT THE WAY OUR
SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT WORKS.
THESE PEOPLE ARE ELECTED AND
THEY'VE GOT TO MAKE THE HARD,
TOUGH DECISIONS ABOUT THISBUDGET, NOT SOME COMMITTEE
THEY WOULD LIKE TO APPOINT.
>> Gary Walker: BUT ON THE
OTHER HAND, I REMEMBER COUNTY
EXECUTIVE KING AT THE TIME
SAYING, "WELL, WE HAVE EXPERTS
IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY" --
I THINK ZEKE DUDA HEADED UP
THAT BLUE RIBBON COMMISSION, A
FINE BUSINESSMAN, A SHARP
FISCAL EYE.
WHY NOT LEAN ON THE EXPERTISE
OF LOCAL BUSINESS TO SAY THAT
MAYBE AN OUTSIDE LOOK AT
COUNTY REVENUES OR COUNTY
EXPENDITURES MIGHT BE HELPFUL
BEFORE YOU MAKE A BIG --
>> GARY, WHAT YOU HAVE TO
REMEMBER THERE WAS THAT THE
COMMITTEE WAS FORMED BASED ON
REPRESENTATIONS BY MY
PREDECESSOR, Mr. KING, THAT HE
INHERITED A $42 MILLION BUDGET
DEFICIT.
AND THERE WAS A LOT OF SHOCK
AND DISBELIEF AND A LOT OFPOSTURING BY PEOPLE, MOSTLY
THE DEMOCRATS, WHO SAID, "OH,
THAT'S NOT REALLY TRUE."
AND SO I THINK BOB CREATED
THAT COMMISSION TO DEMONSTRATE
THAT IT WAS IN FACT TRUE, THAT
THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION
HAD LEFT HIM A LARGE DEFICIT.
AND THE COMMITTEE MADE A
RECOMMENDATION ON HOW TO SOLVE
IT, WHICH BOB EVENTUALLY TOOK
TO THE TAXPAYERS, AND WHICH
I'M BASICALLY FOLLOWING
THROUGH ON, A COMMITMENT IF
WE'RE GOING TO RAISE YOUR
SALES TAX, WE WANT A
COMMITMENT THAT WE'RE NOT
GOING TO RAISE THE PROPERTY
TAX.
>> Gary Walker: BUT I THINK
FOR MOST PEOPLE, THOUGH, WHEN
PEOPLE ARE READING ABOUT THIS
MASSIVE, YOU KNOW, DEFICITS
AND CUTS AND --
>> YEAH.
>> Gary Walker: TO THEM, TO ALOT OF PEOPLE WHOM I HAVE
SPOKEN TO, SAY "MY GOD!
WHERE DID THIS COME FROM?
18 MONTHS AGO WE HAD SURPLUSES
AND THERE WERE ADS ON THE" --
>> AH, GOOD POINT.
>> Gary Walker: -- "RADIO
SAYING THAT THINGS WERE
GREAT."
>> LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.
YOU KNOW WHY, GARY?
BECAUSE WE WERE ABLE TO
SECURITIZE THE TOBACCO MONEY
AND WE WERE ABLE TO PAY DOWN
$100 MILLION IN COUNTY DEBT
WITH THAT MONEY AND ALSO MAKE
A LARGE SUBSTANTIAL PAYMENT OF
$57 MILLION ON CAPITAL
PROJECTS FOR THE COUNTY THAT
WE DIDN'T OTHERWISE HAVE TO
TAKE OUT OF THE OPERATING
BUDGET.
SO THE SECURITIZATION SAVED US
ABOUT $22 MILLION RIGHT OFF
THE BAT BECAUSE WE USED
TOBACCO MONEYS OUT OF A TRUSTFUND TO PAY DOWN DEBT THAT
WOULD OTHERWISE BE PAID OUT OF
THE OPERATING BUDGET.
IT WAS $22 MILLION IN THE
FIRST YEAR.
IT'S OVER A SIX-YEAR CYCLE.
IT GOES TO 19 MILLION AND THEN
IT BASICALLY LEVELS OUT AT 14
MILLION.
SO WE WERE ABLE TO USE THOSE
TOBACCO MONEYS EIGHTEEN MONTHS
AGO, TWO YEARS AGO, TO
PRECLUDE WHAT'S HAPPENING
TODAY.
BUT THERE'S A BIGGER PICTURE.
>> Gary Walker: CAN WE JUST
FOLLOW UP ON THAT, THOUGH?
SAYING THAT, THAT IF YOU KNEW
YOU WERE ON BORROWED MONEY IN
A SENSE, FOUND MONEY, TO KEEP
THIS FROM HAPPENING 18 MONTHS
AGO OR 24 MONTHS AGO OR
WHENEVER, LOOKING OUT,
WOULDN'T IT HAVE MADE MORE
SENSE TO SLOWLY START REDUCING
100 JOBS, 150 JOBS, INSTEAD OFCOMING
OUT IN ONE YEAR AND
JUST... 700 JOBS IN A BLINK?
>> WELL, NO.
YOU SEE, WHAT YOU HAVEN'T
REALLY ENUNCIATED CLEARLY IS
THAT THE 700 JOBS INCLUDES A
LARGE NUMBER OF VACANCIES THAT
ARE NOT FUNDED, AND WE HAVE
BEEN DOING THAT OVER A TWO- OR
THREE-YEAR PERIOD.
WE'VE HAD A JOB FREEZE IN
EFFECT.
SO IN ACTUALITY, WE ARE
ACTUALLY DOING WHAT YOU'VE
JUST MENTIONED OVER THE YEARS
IN ANTICIPATION OF THIS.
BUT THERE ARE SEVERAL FACTORS
THAT HAVE INTERCEDED HERE.
NUMBER ONE IS THE 9/11
SITUATION.
THAT HAD OBVIOUSLY A DAMPENING
ON THE ECONOMY, AND AN ECONOMY
THAT WAS ALREADY MOVING INTO A
RECESSION IN MARCH OF 2001.
THE 9/11 INCIDENT OBVIOUSLY
EXACERBATED THAT, SO OUR SALES
TAX REVENUES WERE AFFECTED.
BUT THEN WE ALSO HAD STATE AND
FEDERAL PROGRAMS, MOSTLY STATE
PROGRAMS, PASSED BY THE STATE
LEGISLATURE IN THEIR TYPICAL
LARGESS: FAMILY HEALTH PLUS
AND CHILD HEALTH PLUS.
ALL GREAT PROGRAMS, DON'T
MISUNDERSTAND ME, BUT ALL OF
WHICH CONTRIBUTED
SIGNIFICANTLY TO OUR MEDICAID
LOAD AND OUR MEDICAID COST
BASIS THAT HAS BASICALLY TAKEN
OUR MEDICAID LINE AND DRAGGED
IT OFF THE CHART COMPLETELY.
I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE HAVE
85,000 PEOPLE RECEIVING
MEDICAID BENEFITS IN MONROE
COUNTY.
OUR LOCAL SHARE THROUGH 2002
IS $113 MILLION.
IT'S VIRTUALLY HALF OF THE
COUNTY PROPERTY TAX.
THESE ARE MANDATED PROGRAMS
OVER WHICH WE HAVE NO CONTROL.
THE SERVICES ARE PROVIDED BY
PRIVATE PROVIDERS, NURSING
HOMES AND OTHER TYPES OF
OPERATIONS.
>> Gary Walker: RIGHT.
>> WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER
THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE MANDATED;
WE'RE OBLIGATED.
BUT THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE
TO YOUR VIEWERS IS THAT THESE
PROGRAMS, MANDATED FEDERAL AND
STATE PROGRAMS, ARE
DESTRUCTIVE IN THAT THEY ARE
DESTROYING OUR ABILITY TO HAVE
FUNDING AVAILABLE FOR OTHER
WORTHWHILE PROGRAMS: THE
ARTS, THE PARKS, AND OTHER
PROGRAMS THAT WE AT THE LOCAL
LEVEL WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AND
LIKE TO FUND.
WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IT UP
TO A POINT, BUT NOW THESE
PROGRAMS ARE GETTING SO FAR
OUT OF CONTROL AND, OF COURSE,
NOT TO MENTION OUR HEALTH CARE
COSTS, THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE
MONEYS AVAILABLE FOR THINGS THAT
WE REALLY FEEL ARE
IMPORTANT: THE R.P.O., MUSEUM
AND SCIENCE CENTER, AND
DIFFERENT AGENCY CONTRACTS AND
SO ON.
PEOPLE MUST UNDERSTAND THAT
THERE'S A GIVE IN THE SYSTEM,
AND WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH
WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, WITH
600 MILLION OF OUR $900
MILLION BUDGET GOING FOR
MANDATED PROGRAMS WITH NO END
IN SIGHT, THE GIVE IS ON THE
NON-MANDATED SIDE OF THE
LEDGER.
>> Gary Walker: LET'S TALK
ABOUT THE NON-MANDATED SIDE OF
THE LEDGER BECAUSE YOU'RE
RIGHT, THERE WAS A BUMP THIS
YEAR IN MANDATED SPENDING FROM
ALBANY, BUT FOR THE LAST SIX
YEARS, MANDATED SPENDING HAS
BEEN RELATIVELY FLAT BUT
NON-MANDATED HAS RISEN BY 12%.
>> YEAH, MOSTLY ON PUBLIC
SAFETY.WE HAVE BEEN VERY STRONG ON
PUBLIC SAFETY, SUPPORTING THE
SHERIFF'S EFFORTS TO INCREASE
HIS ROAD PATROL AND THE JAIL.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HIRE --
UNDER ANOTHER STATE MANDATE --
95 NEW JAIL DEPUTIES TO MAN
OUR NEW $54 MILLION JAIL, 422
JAIL SPACES.
IT'S A NEW JAIL THAT WE
DESPERATELY NEEDED.
WE HAVE A DEPLORABLE CONDITION
IN OUR EXISTING JAIL.
BUT WE HAVE TO HIRE -- THE
STATE SAID -- THEY WANTED US
TO HIRE 133 NEW JAIL DEPUTIES.
A CALCULATION OF $55,000 PER
DEPUTY, BENEFITS AND SALARY,
95 DEPUTIES IS A SIGNIFICANT
AMOUNT OF MONEY, MANDATED BY
THE STATE.
THEY SAID, "YOU CAN'T OPEN
YOUR NEW JAIL UNLESS YOU PUT
95 NEW JAIL DEPUTIES ON LINE."
WE HAVE ALSO INCREASED PUBLIC
SAFETY WITH THE MICROWAVESYSTEM FOR COMMUNICATION TO
ASSIST THE 911 SYSTEM.
A LOT OF MONEY SPENT IN THE
PROBATION AREA.
I HAVE INCREASED THE PROBATION
SPENDING CONSIDERABLY BECAUSE
PROBATION OFFICERS KEEPING AN
EYE ON YOUNG JUVENILES AND
OTHERS IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE
TO KEEPING PEOPLE OUT OF THE
JAIL.
WE HAVE ALSO FUNDED THE JUST
PROGRAM, THE DAY REPORTING
SYSTEM, TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF
THE JAIL, KEEP THEM REPORTING
DAILY, GETTING JOB TRAINING
AND COUNSELLING AND SO ON
WHILE THEIR MATTERS ARE
PENDING IN THE COURTS.
SO THAT'S BEEN AN INCREASE
THERE THAT ISN'T MANDATED BY
THE FEDERAL AND STATE
GOVERNMENT, BUT I THINK IT'S
BEEN GOOD FOR COMMUNITY SAFETY
AND FOR MAKING SURE THAT THE
COMMUNITY REMAINS SAFE FROM A
PUBLIC SAFETY POINT OF VIEW.
>> Gary Walker: I HAVE TO ASK
YOU, THE FATES OF THE BIG
TICKET ITEMS -- ZOO EXPANSION,
JUVENILE JUSTICE CENTER,
SOCCER STADIUM -- ARE THOSE
DEAD?
>> THE ZOO EXPANSION, THE
LEGISLATURE AT OUR REQUEST DID
APPROVE A $139 MILLION PLAN
WHICH WAS IMPORTANT TO
MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE
ZOO ACCREDITATION, TO KEEP US
IN THE PROGRAM, THE WORLD
WILDLIFE PROGRAM AND SO ON
THAT WE DO PARTICIPATE IN.
YOU KNOW, OUR POLAR BEARS WENT
TO ANOTHER ZOO AND WE GET
GIFTS FROM OTHER ZOOS.
THAT'S IMPORTANT.
THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE FUNDED
IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
THE JUVENILE JUSTICE CENTER, I
HAVE ALLOCATED $15 MILLION OF
THE TOBACCO MONEY, A LONG-TERM
CAPITAL PROJECT, FOR THISJUVENILE JUSTICE CENTER.
WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT'S GOING TO
MAKE ITS WAY THROUGH THE STATE
LEGISLATURE AND BECOME A FACT
OF LIFE BECAUSE THIS IS A
PROGRAM THAT'S GOING TO DEAL
WITH OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, PEOPLE
WHO NEED LOCAL SUPERVISION,
LOCAL FAMILY INPUT, LOCAL
COUNSELLING.
WE DON'T NEED TO BE SENDING
OUR YOUNG PEOPLE TO THE BRONX
FOR $85,000 A YEAR WHEN THE
RECIDIVISM RATE ON THOSE KIDS
COMING BACK IS ABOUT 80%.
>> Gary Walker: WHAT ABOUT THE
SOCCER STADIUM, THOUGH?
>> WELL, THE SOCCER STADIUM IS
A LUXURY.
WE HAVE ALREADY TOLD THE
SOCCER PEOPLE THAT $50 MILLION
-- THE SPORTS AUTHORITY HAS
TOLD THEM A $50 MILLION
FACILITY IS OUT OF LINE.
THEY'RE NOT PUTTING ANY LOCAL
-- ANY OF THEIR OWN MONEY IN,
ARE NOT WILLING TO SIGN
PERSONAL GUARANTEES.
WE DO HAVE $15 MILLION
AVAILABLE FROM THE STATE.
I HAVE TALKED TO THEM BRIEFLY
ABOUT A MUCH DOWNSIZED
STADIUM, IF WE COULD SEE OUR
WAY CLEAR FOR THE REVENUE TO
BE AVAILABLE TO PAY...
THAT'S IN A -- THAT'S A MIXED
BAG RIGHT NOW.
>> Gary Walker: WOULDN'T IT BE
POLITICALLY DIFFICULT TO SAY,
"WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE THE
PARKS DURING THE DAYTIME" BUT
WE'RE GOING TO GIVE MONEY TO
THE SOCCER STADIUM?"
>> ABSOLUTELY!
ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY!
AND I AGREE.
IT'S A CRAZY SITUATION TO BE
TALKING ABOUT A $50 MILLION
STADIUM.
I WILL SAY THIS ALSO: WE HAVE
BEEN TRACKING THEIR NUMBERS.
86,000 ACTUAL ATTENDANCE LASTYEAR,
DOWN TO 79,000 THIS YEAR
FOR THE SAME TWELVE-GAME
SNAPSHOT.
THEY'RE ANNOUNCING 107,000.
THEY ANNOUNCE A LOT MORE THAN
ARE REALLY ATTENDING.
SO THE QUESTION IS REALLY DO
WE NEED A HUGE FACILITY?
I TOLD Mr. DUROSS, A BUSINESSMAN
FROM UTICA, THAT THIS IS
NOT IN THE COMMUNITY
INTERESTS.
A SMALLER STADIUM, MAYBE WE
CAN DO IT IF THERE'S NO HIT TO
THE TAXPAYER.
FRONTIER FIELD IS COSTING US
RIGHT NOW $12 MILLION IN REAL
MONEY PAID OUT BY THE COUNTY.
NOW, WE HAD TO ISSUE G.O.
BONDS FOR THAT, COUNTY DEBT
FOR THAT.
>> Gary Walker: THAT'S RIGHT.
>> NOW, IN BUFFALO, WHEN MARIO
CUOMO WAS GOVERNOR AND IT WAS
A DEMOCRATIC MAYOR IN BUFFALO,
HE GRANTED THEM AN EMPIRE
STATE DEVELOPMENT LOAN FOR
$22.5 MILLION.
THEY'VE NEVER PAID A DIME OF
PRINCIPAL OR INTEREST ON THAT
LOAN, AND NOW THE STATE
LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO
COMPLETELY FORGIVE THE LOAN.
>> Gary Walker: SOUNDS LIKE
YOU SHOULD BE --
>> I WASN'T IN OFFICE WHEN
MARIO CUOMO WAS THERE, BUT HE
DIDN'T LIKE Mr. KING, AND
THAT'S WHY WE COULDN'T GET THE
SAME TREATMENT AS BUFFALO.
>> Gary Walker: TIME IS
DWINDLING AND I REALLY WANT TO
TALK ABOUT SALES TAX REVENUE.
YOU HAVE SAID THAT IT'S BEEN A
BURDEN TO THE COUNTY, THE WAY
THE SALES TAX PENNY IS SHARED
NOW.
THAT COMES UP FOR REVIEW NEXT
YEAR.
ARE YOU GOING TO REDO THE
FIGURES?
ARE YOU GOING TO ASK THE CITYAND THE TOWNS AND THE SCHOOL
DISTRICTS TO GIVE MORE MONEY
TO THE COUNTY FROM THAT SALES
TAX?
>> WELL, GARY, YOU HAVE TO
UNDERSTAND, I THINK YOUR
VIEWERS SHOULD UNDERSTAND
ALSO, THE SALES TAX OVER A
FOUR-YEAR PERIOD GENERATES
$1.4 BILLION.
IN THE EIGHT YEARS I HAVE BEEN
IN OFFICE, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE
TO WORK OUT AN AGREEMENT WITH
THE CITY, THE SCHOOL
DISTRICTS, THE TOWNS AND THE
VILLAGES, FOR THE TOTAL
DISTRIBUTION OF $2.8 BILLION
IN SALES TAX MONEYS.
THE CITY AND THE COUNTY NOW
SHARE EQUALLY.
THE CITY WAS TRYING TO PUSH US
DOWN AND TAKE MORE PERCENTAGE.
I SAID, "NO, WE'RE GOING TO
HAVE DOLLAR PARITY WITH YOU.
WE CAN'T DO THAT.
WE HAVE OBLIGATIONS.WE'VE GOT THE SOCIAL SERVICE
OBLIGATIONS, THE HUMAN SERVICE
OBLIGATIONS."
85% OF OUR CASE LOAD IS FROM
THE CITY ON WELFARE; 85% OF
OUR JAIL POPULATION IS FROM
THE CITY.
85% OF OUR PROBATION LOAD IS
FROM THE CITY RESIDENTS...
SO I SAID WE CANNOT GO
ANYTHING BELOW A DOLLAR PARITY
WITH THE CITY.
SO I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO --
>> Gary Walker: DO YOU WANT TO
RENEGOTIATE THAT?
>> WE'RE GOING TO RENEGOTIATE
THE DEAL, BUT I THINK WE HAVE
REACHED AN AGREEMENT THAT IS
DOLLAR-PARITYWISE REALISTIC
AND PRAGMATICALLY SPEAKING IS
NOT GOING TO GET CHANGED.
SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO PUT --
TRY TO PUT THE BURDEN BACK ON
THE CITY AND SAY WE NEED MORE
MONEY AND SO ON, BUT I'VE GOT
TO, ON THE OTHER HAND, SAY TO
THE MAYOR WHO SAID TO ME
ALREADY CITY COUNCIL WANTS
MORE MONEY ON THE SALES TAX,
ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.
>> Gary Walker: SO THE DEAL IS
GOING TO PRETTY MUCH IN YOUR
MIND STAY THE SAME AS IT IS
NOW FOR THE CITY?
>> I THINK -- YOU'VE GOT TO
LOOK AT IT THIS WAY, GARY.
TO GET ANYTHING THROUGH IN
ALBANY, YOU HAVE TO GET IT
THROUGH THE SENATE, WHICH IS
REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED, AND THE
ASSEMBLY, WHICH IS
DEMOCRAT-CONTROLLED, AND
BASICALLY HEADED UP BY
Mr. GANT, THE DEAN OF THE --
Mr. GANT IS GOING TO PROTECT
THE CITY INTERESTS.
WE HAVE TO HAVE A BALANCING
ACT HERE.
SO WOULD I LIKE TO GET MORE
MONEY?
ABSOLUTELY.
IS IT PRACTICAL?NO, IT'S NOT PRACTICAL.
SO WHY CHURN -- WHY CHURN THE
POT OVER SOMETHING THAT ISN'T
GOING TO HAPPEN?
>> Gary Walker: LET ME ASK YOU
A PERSONAL QUESTION HERE.
YOU HAVE MADE A LOT OF ISSUES
ABOUT -- AND PROUDLY SO, SAID,
"WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON JOBS
FIRST IN THIS COMMUNITY."
>> RIGHT.
>> Gary Walker: NOW YOU HAVE
TO TURN AROUND AND ELIMINATE
700 OF THEM.
>> WELL, NOW, AS I POINTED OUT
TO YOU, OVER 250 OF THOSE ARE
ALREADY CURRENTLY VACANT.
WE ANTICIPATE ABOUT 300
RETIREMENTS, SO WE MAY BE
LAYING OFF 100 OR SO COUNTY
EMPLOYEES.
>> Gary Walker: HOW DOES THAT
AFFECT YOU, THOUGH?
>> WELL, I DON'T LIKE TO DO
IT.
I KNOW A LOT OF THESE PEOPLEPERSONALLY.
IN FACT, A LOT OF THE PEOPLE
WHO ARE RETIRING ARE ALSO
FRIENDS OF MINE AND DEPARTMENT
HEADS AND OTHERS.
WE'RE NOT GIVING DEPARTMENT
HEADS OR THE MANAGERIAL AND
PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE ANY
RAISES.
A LOTS OF THOSE ARE THE
LAWYERS I USED TO WORK WITH AT
THE LAW DEPARTMENT.
I'M NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS, BUT
ON THE OTHER HAND, I HAVE AN
OBLIGATION HERE TO THE
TAXPAYERS AND TO THE
COMMUNITY, AND WHILE PEOPLE
RAIL OUT AGAINST ME, MOSTLY
SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS, WHICH
I CAN UNDERSTAND, THEY HAVE TO
ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT FOR TEN
YEARS THINGS WERE GOOD AND WE
PROVIDED AS MUCH MONEY AS WE
COULD TO THEM.
BUT WHEN THINGS ARE BAD, THEY
HAVE TO KIND OF RIDE WITH US.
>> Gary Walker: AND THAT IS
THE LAST WORD.
THANK YOU.
I WANT TO THANK MY GUEST,
COUNTY EXECUTIVE JACK DOYLE.
THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE
FOR THIS DISCUSSION.
FOR MORE ON THIS, JUST LOG
ONTO OUR WEB SITE AT
wxxi.org/ntk.
NOW
IT'S TIME FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "THE BUSINESS
SECTION" WITH THE "THE
DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
(Music)
JOINING US NOW IN STUDIO IS
ELLEN ROSEN, THE BUSINESS
EDITOR OF THE "DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE."
ELLEN, THANKS FOR COMING AGAIN
THIS WEEK.
>> Ellen Rosen: THANKS, GARY.
>> Gary Walker: SOME NEWS FROM
XEROX: THE E.E.O.C., THE
EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNIT
IS MAINTAINING A RACIALLY
HOSTILE ATMOSPHERE... PRETTY
TOUGH TALK.
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, THEY
WERE SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY OF
XEROX OF CINCINNATI
OPERATIONS.
THERE WERE A GROUP OF SUITS
THAT WERE FILED BY SOME
WORKERS THERE CLAIMING VARIOUS
THINGS, SUCH AS FINDING NOOSES
IN WORKPLACES.
THERE WAS ANOTHER WORKER WHO
CLAIMED THERE WAS A PHOTOGRAPH
OF HER THAT HAD BEEN ALTERED
TO LOOK LIKE A PROSTITUTE.
SO THERE WAS A SERIES OF
THINGS.
THEY WERE SPEAKING ONLY OF THE
CINCINNATI THING.
THE E.E.O.C. THING, WHILE IT'S
NOT BINDING, ACTUALLY WORKS IN
THE PLAINTIFFS' FAVOR BECAUSE
IT WOULD MAKE IT VERY
DIFFICULT FOR XEROX TO THEN GO
INTO COURT AND GET THE SUIT
AUTOMATICALLY DISMISSED, AND
IT DOES GIVE THE PLAINTIFFS
SOME BARGAINING FOR WHEN, IF
THEY WANT TO SIT DOWN AND TALK
ABOUT A SETTLEMENT.
>> Gary Walker: AND IT'S A
LITTLE SURPRISING BECAUSE
XEROX HERE IN ROCHESTER, I
THINK, PRIDED ITSELF ON BEING
OPEN, ON BEING FRIENDLY TO
MINORITIES, TO GAYS, LESBIANS
AND EVERYTHING, AND NOW WE
HAVE THIS PART OF THE
COMPANY --
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, THAT'S
TRUE.
THE COMPANY HAS DENIED,
CATEGORICALLY DENIED, THERE'S
ANY KIND OF SYSTEMATIC BIAS ON
ANY PART, AND THAT'S BEEN
THEIR STANCE.
BUT THERE ARE THESE THINGS
CROPPING UP IN SPECIFIC
OPERATIONS.
AND THIS ISN'T THE FIRST TIME
XEROX HAS FACED THIS.
THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER CHARGES.
THERE WAS A GROUP OF
SALESPEOPLE, LARGELY FROM THE
NEW YORK CITY AREA, 17 TO 18 I
THINK FORMER XEROX EMPLOYEES,
THAT CHARGED THAT THEY WERE
GIVEN LESS LUCRATIVE SALES
TERRITORIES, THAT THEY HAD
DIFFICULTY GETTING PROMOTED
BASED ON RACE.
SO XEROX HAS FACED THIS
BEFORE, AND THEN WITHIN THE
LAST YEAR, NORVEL GOFF, WHO IS
HEAD OF THE LOCAL CHAPTER OF
THE NAACP, REQUESTED A MEETING
WITH ANNE MULCAHY TO TALK
ABOUT THIS.
SO THE COMPANY IS TRYING TO
WORK THROUGH THIS, BUT YOU
HAVE A LARGE CORPORATION WITH
A LOT OF DIFFERENT OPERATIONS,
AND WHILE THEY HAVE SAID AT
THE VERY TOP THAT THEY WILL
NOT TOLERATE THIS, YOU KNOW,
THEY WANT TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE
A DISCUSSION AND WORK THISTHROUGH.
>> Gary Walker: SO ON A
CORPORATE LEVEL, THIS STILL
BEGS SOME ACTION, DOESN'T IT?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, YES,
OBVIOUSLY IT DOES.
AND THE CORPORATION HAS SAID
THEY WOULD DO THIS.
YOU SEE THIS IN OTHER
COMPANIES.
I MEAN, LAST YEAR DAN CARP AT
KODAK, CAME OUT -- THEY HAD
SOME ISSUES THERE, TOO,
SO XEROX ISN'T THE ONLY
COMPANY FACING THIS.
DAN CARP CAME RIGHT OUT AND
SAID, "THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN
WITHIN MY COMPANY.
PEOPLE THAT DO THIS KIND OF
BEHAVIOR IN MY COMPANY WILL BE
FIRED."
SO COMPANIES ARE TRYING TO
WORK THROUGH THESE THINGS, BUT
AGAIN, YOU'VE GOT LARGE
CORPORATIONS, LOTS OF
DIFFERENT MANAGERS, YOU'RE
MANAGING PEOPLE...
SO THEY CAN SET A CORPORATE
STANDARD, BUT THEN THEY HAVE
TO MAKE SURE THAT IT GETS
PASSED DOWN ALL THE WAY
THROUGH, AND THAT'S WHAT
THEY'RE WORKING TOWARD.
>> Gary Walker: SPEAKING OF
TOUGH TALK FROM KODAK, KODAK
IS SUING A NORTH CAROLINA
BANK, A BREAKING STORY IN
TODAY'S PAPER.
WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?
>> Ellen Rosen: YES, IT IS.
KODAK YEARS AGO HAD MADE A
LOAN TO A COMPANY CALLED WOLF
CAMERAS, WHICH IS NOW
BANKRUPT.
WOLF HAD PURCHASED FOX PHOTO
FROM KODAK, AND KODAK HAD MADE
THIS LOAN TO WOLF BASED ON THE
FACT THAT THEY THOUGHT WOLF
WAS GOING TO USE THE MONEY TO
BEEF UP STORES, DO SOME
RENOVATIONS, THINGS THAT WOULD
DEFINITELY HAVE HELPED SALES
AND OTHER THINGS, BEEN IN
KODAK'S INTEREST.
KODAK MADE AN INVESTMENT IN
THIS COMPANY, THINKING IT WAS
GOING TO GET SOME INTEREST.
WELL, WHAT HAPPENED AT THE
SAME TIME, UNBEKNOWNST TO
KODAK, ALTHOUGH KODAK HAD BEEN
PROMISED THEY WOULD BE KEPT IN
THE LOOP, WAS THAT THE BANK --
WOLF WAS TRYING TO RENEGOTIATE
A LINE OF CREDIT WITH A GROUP
OF TEN BANKS, A $100 MILLION
LINE OF CREDIT, AND ONE OF THE
DEALS THAT THE LEAD BANK MADE
WITH THEM WAS THAT THIS $30
MILLION KODAK HAD LENT WAS
GOING TO GO TO PAY OFF DEBT.
KODAK'S POSITION IS THE BANK
SHOULD HAVE TOLD THEM BECAUSE
THIS IS NOT WHAT THEY AGREED
TO; THIS IS NOT WHAT THEY
WANTED, AND THAT BASICALLY
THEY FEEL DEFRAUDED BY THE
BANK.
SO THEY'RE NOW SUING -- IT'SFIRST UNION,
NOW WACHOVIA,
WHICH IS AN ENORMOUS BANK, AND
THEY'RE SUING THEM FOR
DAMAGES.
>> Gary Walker: WHAT DOES THAT
TELL YOU?
COMPANIES ARE LOOKING FOR ALL
REVENUE SOURCES?
>> Ellen Rosen: WELL, I THINK
THAT'S REALLY PART OF IT.
I MEAN, KODAK HAS A
RESPONSIBILITY TO ITS
SHAREHOLDERS TO MAKE SURE THAT
IT GETS ITS REVENUE WHEREVER
IT CAN AND WHEREVER IT'S OWED,
BUT I THINK THIS ALSO SPEAKS
TO THE ISSUE OF CORPORATE
HONESTY.
I THINK KODAK IS TRYING TO
PUSH THIS MESSAGE ALL THE WAY
ACROSS, THAT YOU HAVE AN ISSUE
OF INTEGRITY HERE, OF A BANK
NOT BEING HONEST WITH ANOTHER
PARTY.
SO I THINK IT'S BOTH OF THOSE
THINGS.BUT I MEAN I WOULDN'T SAY THAT
IN KODAK'S CASE IT'S AN ACT OF
DESPERATION.
I MEAN THEY REALLY HAVE A
FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY TO GO
AFTER WHATEVER MONEY IS OWED
THEM.
>> Gary Walker: WHAT'S COMING
UP THIS SUNDAY IN THE
"DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE"?
>> Ellen Rosen: THIS SUNDAY,
WE'RE ACTUALLY TAKING A LOOK
AT A PHILOSOPHY CALLED LEAN
MANUFACTURING THAT KODAK IS
USING THAT GETS WORKERS TO TRY
TO DO MORE WITH LESS.
AND IT DOESN'T MEAN FEWER
WORKERS; IT MEANS REALLY
STREAMLINING, LOOKING AT WHAT
YOU DO AND TRYING TO BE BETTER
AT IT.
WE'RE ALSO GOING TO TAKE A
LOOK AT THE COMPANIES THAT BY
AUGUST 14th HAVE TO SIGN OFF
ON THIS PROMISE TO THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT THAT THEIRFINANCIAL
REPORTINGS ARE ALL
CORRECT, SO WE'RE LOOKING INTO
WHO LOCALLY HAS SIGNED THAT
AND WHAT IT MIGHT MEAN.
>> Gary Walker: OKAY.
AND WE'LL LOOK AT THAT THIS
SUNDAY IN THE "DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE."
ELLEN, AGAIN, THANKS FOR
JOINING US.
>> Gary Walker: DON'T FORGET, YOU CAN READ
MORE ABOUT THIS PROGRAM ON OUR
WEB SITE.LOG
ONTO wxxi.org/ntk.
THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE
FOR THIS WEEK'S PROGRAM.
WE'LL BE OFF NEXT WEEK FOR THE
WXXI PLEDGE DRIVE.
WE'LL SEE YOU IN TWO WEEKS
WITH A LOOK AT MIGRANT WORKERS
IN MONROE COUNTY.
(Music)