>>
Gary: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO
KNOW," THE DIAZ CHEMICAL SPILL.
80 GALLONS OF LIQUID MATERIAL
WERE RELEASED IN HOLLEY LAST
MONTH.
TONIGHT NEIGHBORS ARE UPSET
FEARING CHEMICALS ARE STILL
LURKING.
OFFICIALS ARE LEAVING IT UP TO
CITIZENS IF THEY WANT TO RETURN
HOME, AND NOW LAWYERS ARE
INVOLVED, AND WE STILL DON'T
KNOW THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF
THIS PARTICULAR CHEMICAL
COMPOUND.
THAT'S COMING UP NEXT, ALONG
WITH OUR WEEKLY BUSINESS REPORT
AND A LOOK AT SOME OLD BOOKS IN
ROCHESTER.
(Music)
>> IT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR ANY
COMPANY, DIAZ OR ANY COMPANY, TO
BE USING A COMPOUND WHICH THE
HEALTH SPECS ARE UNKNOWN.
>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE
ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH
NEWS PROGRAM.
"NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION
OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS
COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS,
EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.
>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS
JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL
LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT
OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
(Music)
>> Gary: THANK YOU FOR JOINING
US.
I'M GARY WALKER.
LET'S GO BACK A LITTLE MORE THAN
A MONTH AGO WHERE, IN NEARBY
HOLLEY, A BUILDUP OF PRESSURE IN
A PROCESS TANK AT DIAZ CHEMICAL
LED TO THE DISCHARGE OF 75 TO 80
GALLONS OF MATERIAL.
THE ERUPTION SPEWED STEAM AND
DROPLETS OF CHEMICALS THAT
INCLUDING A COMPOUND CALLED
2-CHLORO-6-FLUOROPHENOL INTO THE
AIR.
MANY OF THESE DROPLETS LANDED ON
HOMES, CARS AND VEGETATION
LOCATED DOWNWIND OF THE PLANT.
ACCORDING TO THE DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION, DIAZ
STAFF INITIALLY CONSIDERED THIS
TO BE A MINOR RELEASE OR
SHORT-TERM NUISANCE.
RESIDENTS WERE TOLD TO STAY
INDOORS AND KEEP WINDOWS SHUT.
BUT EVALUATION SHOWED ONE OF THE
CHEMICALS INVOLVED TAKES TIME TO
DISSIPATE; SO DIAZ PROVIDED
TEMPORARY RELOCATION TO THOSE
WHO HAD TROUBLE DEALING WITH THE
ODORS OR JUST WANTED TO STAY
AWAY FROM HOME.
HEALTHWISE, PEOPLE AFFECTED CAN
EXPERIENCE HEADACHES, DIZZINESS,
IRRITATION OF THE NOSE,
RESPIRATORY TRACT, EYES AND
SKIN.
AT THIS VERY MOMENT SOME
RESIDENTS ARE STILL STAYING IN
NEARBY HOTELS EVEN THOUGH THEIR
HOMES HAVE BEEN WASHED DOWN.
THERE'S ALSO A PENDING LAWSUIT.
NOW TONIGHT WE HAVE THE ATTORNEY
INVOLVED IN THAT POSSIBLE
LAWSUIT, A HOLLEY RESIDENT, AND
THE REPORTER COVERING THE STORY
FROM THE "DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE" ON HAND.
AND THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME
OR THE FIRST SPILL WXXI HAS
COVERED BY DIAZ.
WE'LL SHOW YOU PARTS OF OUR
STORY FROM TEN YEARS AGO AS
"NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS
VISITED THE VILLAGE OF HOLLEY
THIS WEEK TO FIND OUT WHAT'S
GOING ON.
>> YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY ALL
YOUR BILLS.
THE BILLS ARE OVER THERE IN A
BRIEFCASE.
I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I DID THIS
MORNING FOR THREE HOURS.
I'M STILL PAYING FOR MY GAS IN
HOLLEY, MY WATER IN HOLLEY, MY
ELECTRIC IN HOLLEY, MY TAXES IN
HOLLEY; BUT I CAN'T GO THERE
BECAUSE IT MAKES ME SICK.
>> Matt: ANITA TRUPO AND HER
HUSBAND, FRANCIS, HAVE BEEN
LIVING IN THIS SMALL HOLIDAY INN
EXPRESS HOTEL ROOM FOR THE LAST
MONTH, NOT BECAUSE THEY DON'T
HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE TO GO.
>> THIS IS MY OFFICE.
THERE'S MY SCOTCH TAPE, MY PENS,
MY ENVELOPES TO DO BILLS.
THERE'S ALL MY HOLLEY BILLS.
>> Matt: THEY OWN AN 11-ROOM
VICTORIAN HOME IN THE VILLAGE OF
HOLLEY, BUT THE JANUARY 5th
CHEMICAL SPILL AT THE DIAZ
CHEMICAL CORPORATION FACILITY
FORCED THEM TO FLEE THEIR HOME,
FEARING THEIR HEALTH COULD BE IN
DANGER.
>> SEVERE HEADACHES, DIZZINESS,
RINGING IN THE EARS, DIARRHEA,
VERY SORE THROAT, CHEST PAINS.
>> Matt: THOSE ARE SOME OF THE
SYMPTOMS ANITA AND FRANCIS SAY
THEY'VE EXPERIENCED THE FEW
TIMES THEY'VE VENTURED BACK HOME
TO PICK UP THEIR MAIL.
THE TRUPOS SAY THIS IS A
NIGHTMARE COME TRUE, ONE THEY'VE
BEEN DREADING WOULD HAPPEN FOR
THE LAST DECADE.
TEN YEARS AGO, WXXI INTERVIEWED
ANITA AFTER A DIFFERENT DIAZ
CHEMICAL LEAK.
>> IT'S A TIME BOMB.
THAT'S THE WAY IT'S BEEN PUT TO
US.
WE'RE LIVING IN A TIME BOMB.
AND IT'S SCARY, ESPECIALLY SINCE
PEOPLE HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN AND
FOR ANYBODY.
>> Matt: CURRENTLY DIAZ IS
PAYING FOR THE TRUPOS' STAY AT
THE HOTEL AND IT'S DOING THE
SAME FOR OTHER NEIGHBORS WHO
AREN'T READY TO GO HOME YET,
ALTHOUGH THEY ARE ALLOWED TO.
STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT
OFFICIALS CONTINUED THEIR
INVESTIGATION INTO THE SIDE
EFFECTS OF THE MAIN CHEMICAL
LEAKED FROM THE RELEASE, CALLED
2-CHLORO-6-FLUOROPHENOL.
ANDREW LUCYSZYN IS AN ORLEANS
COUNTY HEALTH DIRECTOR.
HE SAYS SO VERY LITTLE IS KNOWN
ABOUT THIS CHEMICAL COMPOUND
THAT STATE HEALTH AND
ENVIRONMENTAL AGENCIES HAD TO
DEVELOP A NEW TESTING PROCEDURE
JUST TO IDENTIFY AND TEST FOR
IT.
>> WE CERTAINLY ARE TAKING AN
EDUCATED GUESS ON THE HEALTH
EFFECTS, BUT WE HAVE TO GO BY
WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.
IF YOU CAN'T SMELL IT, THEN THE
COMPOUND, THE WAY WE HAVE
TESTED, MAY BE AT SUCH A LOW
LEVEL THAT, I MEAN, OUR
EQUIPMENT WILL NOT DETECT IT.
>> Matt: WHILE LUCYSZYN AND
OTHER HEALTH OFFICIALS CAN'T SAY
WITH CERTAINTY WHAT ALL THE
HEALTH RISKS ARE, LUCYSZYN SAYS
NEIGHBORS WHO WANT TO RETURN TO
THEIR HOMES NEED TO BE VERY
OBSERVANT.
>> THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TELLING
INDIVIDUALS RIGHT NOW.
IF YOU CANNOT DETECT IT BY ODOR,
IF YOU CANNOT SEE IT ON THE
COMPOUNDS, THEN WE ARE SAYING
THAT THE RISK IS SO LOW.
I MEAN THERE'S ALWAYS A RISK,
BUT THE RISK IS SO LOW THAT YOU
SHOULD ENTER INTO YOUR HOMES.
>> Matt: DO YOU PERSONALLY AGREE
WITH THAT?
>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.
AND I'M SURE IF IT WAS HIS HOME,
HE WOULDN'T AGREE WITH THAT
EITHER.
>> Matt: VANESSA ANCHOR'S HOUSE
WAS ALSO AFFECTED BY THE
CHEMICAL SPILL.
IF IT WERE UP TO HER, SHE, HER
HUSBAND AND HER DAUGHTER WOULD
BE JOINING THE TRUPOS AT A
NEARBY HOTEL.
BUT HER HUSBAND AND DAUGHTER
DON'T WANT TO LEAVE HOME,
WILLING TO FACE POTENTIAL
CONSEQUENCES.
SO VANESSA STAYS AND WORRIES
ABOUT HER HEALTH.
>> SINCE THE CHEMICAL SPILL,
I'VE HAD TO USE THE INHALER
THREE TIMES A DAY.
>> Matt: AND PRIOR TO THE SPILL?
>> PRIOR TO THE SPILL, YOU KNOW,
LIKE MAYBE THERE WOULD BE MONTHS
WHERE I WOULDN'T USE IT AT ALL,
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES
MAYBE ONCE A DAY HERE OR THERE,
BUT SINCE THAT I'VE USED IT
THREE TIMES A DAY EVERY DAY,
SINCE IT HAPPENED.
>> Matt: TRUTH BE TOLD, VANESSA
HAS BEEN A SMOKER FOR 36 YEARS,
BUT SHE IS CONVINCED HER CURRENT
ASTHMATIC SYMPTOMS ARE NOT THE
RESULT OF YEARS OF SMOKING.
SHE ATTRIBUTES IT DIRECTLY TO
THE DIAZ SPILL AND NOW IS AFRAID
FOR HER FAMILY.
>> DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY, I AM,
VERY MUCH SO.
I HAVE A 16-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER,
AND I'M VERY CONCERNED, VERY.
>> Matt: RESIDENTS OF HOLLEY
AFFECTED BY THE DIAZ SPILL HAVE
HIRED THE SAME ATTORNEY WHO
HANDLED THE LOVE CANAL CASE TO
BRING A SUIT AGAINST THE DIAZ
CHEMICAL CORPORATION.
THEY WANT ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
ABOUT THE SAFETY OF THEIR HOMES
AND LONG-TERM HEALTH RISKS,
QUESTIONS WHICH AT THIS POINT
REMAIN DIFFICULT TO ANSWER.
>> AND WE WON'T KNOW AND WE
WON'T KNOW FOR A GENERATION OR
MORE.
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WITH ANY
EXPOSURE OR THE AMOUNT OF
EXPOSURE OF ANY CHEMICAL
PRODUCT.
WE JUST DON'T KNOW.
RIGHT NOW, WE'RE STILL TRYING TO
DEVELOP THE LABORATORY
TECHNIQUES TO IDENTIFY IT IN
URINE OR IN BLOOD, AND THE
LABORATORY PERSONNEL ARE STILL
TRYING TO DO THIS; AND EVEN IF
AND WHEN IT'S HAPPENED, IT WILL
ONLY TELL US THAT IT'S THERE,
NOT WHAT THE HARMFUL EFFECTS
WILL BE.
>> Matt: DIAZ DECLINED AN
ON-CAMERA INTERVIEW, BUT WE DID
OBTAIN A COPY OF THE LETTER DIAZ
SENT TO HOLLEY RESIDENTS AFTER
THE CHEMICAL SPILL.
IN IT, DIAZ OFFERS THEIR SINCERE
APOLOGIES FOR THE ACCIDENT AND
FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE IT MAY
HAVE CAUSED RESIDENTS.
IN THE LETTER, DIAZ ADMITS THE
CHEMICAL RELEASE WAS THE RESULT
OF AN EMPLOYEE WHO FAILED TO
OPEN A VENT VALVE THAT DIRECTS
VAPOURS THROUGH A SCRUBBER
BEFORE BEING RELEASED INTO THE
AIR.
THE ORLEANS COUNTY HEALTH
DEPARTMENT HAS ISSUED A LETTER
TO THE HOLLEY COMMUNITY AS WELL,
OUTLINING THE EVENTS OF JANUARY
5th, THE RESULTS OF THEIR
TESTING AND ADVICE TO RESIDENTS
ON LIMITING EXPOSURE AT HOME.
ANCHOR AND TRUPO SAY THAT'S NOT
GOOD ENOUGH AND WONDER WHAT THE
FUTURE WILL BRING.
>> WELL, IT'S A SCARY QUESTION
THAT'S IN OUR MINDS CONSTANTLY.
IT'S PART OF THE ANXIETY THAT WE
HAVE, BEING OUT OF OUR HOME.
YOU CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT IT'S LIKE
TO BE FORCED OUT OF YOUR HOME
AND NOT KNOW IF YOU CAN EVER
RETURN.
YOU SIT AND THINK ABOUT THINGS
THAT HAVE BEEN HANDED DOWN IN
YOUR FAMILY FOR GENERATIONS THAT
YOU CANNOT PUT A FIGURE ON.
YOU WONDER IF YOU'LL EVER BE
ABLE TO SELL YOUR HOME FOR ANY
KIND OF A DECENT PRICE.
THERE'S THINGS THAT YOU JUST
CAN'T REPLACE.
IT'S HEART-WRENCHING.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S DOWN THE
ROAD, AND THAT'S A TERRIBLE
THING TO NOT KNOW.
SHOULD I SELL MY HOME AND MOVE?
I MEAN, I JUST -- I DON'T HAVE
AN ANSWER TO THAT.
>> Matt: DOES THAT CROSS YOUR
MIND?
>> I DON'T WANT TO.
I REALLY DON'T.
I MEAN, I LIKE IT IN HOLLEY.
BUT IF -- I JUST WANT DIAZ TO
CLOSED AND A CLEANUP.
THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO SEE, I
REALLY DO.
I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ANYBODY
EVER GAVE THEM PERMISSION TO SET
UP IN THE MIDDLE OF A SMALL
VILLAGE.
(Music)
>> Gary: THANKS FOR THE REPORT,
MATT.
JUST FOR THE RECORD, HERE ARE
THE FOLLOWING AGENCIES THAT
DECLINED INVITATIONS TO APPEAR
ON THIS PROGRAM: THE DEPARTMENT
OF HEALTH, NEW YORK STATE;
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
CONSERVATION, NEW YORK STATE;
THE NEW YORK STATE ATTORNEY
GENERAL'S OFFICE; THE ATTORNEY
FOR THE VILLAGE OF HOLLEY, AND
DIAZ CHEMICAL CORPORATION ALL
DID NOT WANT TO PARTICIPATE ON
THIS PROGRAM.
WE DID ASK.
WE DO HAVE A STATEMENT FROM
HOLLEY, IF WE CAN SEE THAT ON
THE CAMERA RIGHT NOW, AND I CAN
READ ALONG WITH IT.
"DIAZ IS TRULY SORRY FOR THE
INCONVENIENCE THAT THE JANUARY
5th CHEMICAL RELEASE HAS CAUSED
AREA RESIDENTS AND IS WORKING
DILIGENTLY TO ADDRESS ANY
REMAINING CONCERNS.
ALTHOUGH MORE WORK NEEDS TO BE
DONE, IT IS HOPED THAT THE
EFFORTS OF THE ODOR EXPERTS WILL
PROVIDE ADDITIONAL ASSURANCES TO
RELOCATE RESIDENTS SO THEY CAN
RETURN HOME AND REGAIN NORMALCY
IN THEIR LIFE.
THAT IS A RELEASE FROM THE DIAZ
CHEMICAL CORPORATION.
HI, I'M GARY WALKER.
LET'S START RIGHT AWAY WITH
LINDA FLOW.
LINDA IS A RESIDENT OF HOLLEY.
HI, LINDA.
>> HI.
>> Gary: THANKS FOR COMING.
DO YOU STILL HAVE THAT ODOR IN
TOWN RIGHT NOW FROM THE CHEMICAL
RELEASE?
>> YES, NOT THAT PARTICULAR
CHEMICAL RELEASE.
>> Gary: NOT THAT ONE.
SO YOU DON'T SMELL THAT RELEASE
ANYMORE?
>> NO.
WE DO SMELL CHEMICALS.
>> Gary: DO YOU FEEL OKAY THAT
EVERYTHING'S BEEN CLEANED UP?
>> NO, NO.
BECAUSE WHEN YOU GO UP NEXT TO
THE HOUSES THAT HAVE BEEN
AFFECTED, YOU DO SMELL IT, OKAY?
MY IN-LAWS, YOU SMELL IT.
YOU CAN STILL SEE ALL THE SPOTS
ON THEIR HOUSE, AND THE HEALTH
DEPARTMENT TELLS US, WHEN IT
HEATS UP, YOU'RE GOING TO SMELL
IT EVEN WORSE.
>> Gary: ALL RIGHT.
LET ME ASK YOU A TOUGH QUESTION
RIGHT OFF THE BAT.
NOW, YOU SAW THE PIECE THAT MATT
DID.
>> YES.
>> Gary: THERE'S A WOMAN SAYING
SHE HAS TO HAVE A RESPIRATOR NOW
THREE DAYS A WEEK OR AN INHALER
SPRAY, ALTHOUGH SHE'S SMOKING
FOR 30 YEARS.
I JUST HAVE TO ASK, IN THE VERY
FINAL SENTENCE OF THAT REPORT,
THE STATEMENT WAS, "I JUST WANT
DIAZ SHUT DOWN."
I HAVE TO ASK, ARE SOME OF THE
NEIGHBORS OR DO YOURSELF FEEL
THAT RIGHT NOW NOTHING SHORT OF
THE CLOSURE OF THIS PLANT WILL
SATISFY YOU?
>> AS OF RIGHT NOW, YES.
I WANT THEM GONE, YOU KNOW, ONLY
BECAUSE THEY -- THE D.E.C. TELLS
US -- ONE MAN D.E.C. TELLS US
THEY'RE UNDER ARTICLE 5 FOR AIR
PERMITS.
ANOTHER MAN TELLS US AT D.E.C.,
NO, THEY'RE NOT.
HE CAN'T EVEN FIND THEM IN THE
COMPUTER.
SO WHERE DO THEY FALL?
THEY HAVE NOT DONE AN AIR TEST
AT THAT PLANT OR IN THE VILLAGE
FOR SIX YEARS.
SO OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE NOT BEING
MONITORED THAT WELL.
>> Gary: SO, AT THIS POINT, YOU
JUST WANT THEM CLOSED.
>> I WANT THEM GONE.
>> Gary: ALAN KNAUF.
ALAN IS REPRESENTING 50 FAMILIES
WHO MAY FILE A LAWSUIT AGAINST
OR, ARE YOU GOING TO FILE A
LAWSUIT?
>> THEY CERTAINLY ARE INTENT
RIGHT NOW.
WE'RE INVESTIGATING THE
SITUATION.
RICHARD LIPPES FROM BUFFALO, WHO
REPRESENTED THE LOVE CANAL
PLAINTIFFS AND HAS A NATIONAL
TORT PRACTICE, AND I ARE
REPRESENTING THE FAMILIES.
RIGHT NOW WE'RE STUDYING THE
CASE, LOOKING THROUGH THE D.E.C.
FILES, FOLLOWING UP WITH THE
INDIVIDUAL FAMILIES TO SEE WHAT
THEIR IMPACTS ARE, BUT CERTAINLY
IT'S OUR INTENT TO GO AHEAD.
>> Gary: Mr. KNAUF, LET ME ASK,
WHAT IS THE INTENT OF THE
LAWSUIT?
TO SHUT THE PLANT DOWN?
>> THE MAIN INTENT WOULD BE TO
SEEK COMPENSATION FOR THE
FAMILIES.
THEY HAVE HOUSES THEY CAN'T LIVE
IN RIGHT NOW.
THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN
TREMENDOUSLY UPSET.
THEY'VE BEEN EXPOSED TO
CHEMICALS.
NO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHAT THE
HEALTH IMPACTS ARE.
THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT DIDN'T
EVEN KNOW HOW TO TEST FOR THEM,
LET ALONE WHAT A SAFE LEVEL WAS.
>> Gary: OKAY.
NOW YOU'RE TOUCHING ON SEVERAL
THINGS THAT WE NEED TO TALK
ABOUT: WHO'S RESPONSIBLE AND
WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR
MONITORING, AND ALSO GIVING
INFORMATION TO RESIDENTS,
BECAUSE THIS WOULD SEEM TO ME
LIKE IT COULD EXTEND BEYOND
HOLLEY.
ANYBODY LIVING NEXT TO ANY
MANUFACTURING SITUATION OR
CHEMICAL PLANT SHOULD HAVE THE
-- I GUESS, THE IDEA THAT WHO IS
ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR
REPORTING AND SAYING IT'S SAFE
TO GO BACK IN YOUR HOMES?
I WANT TO TURN TO JOE SPECTOR.
JOE IS THE "DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE" REPORTER WHO'S BEEN
COVERING THIS.
JOE, LET ME ASK YOU THIS THOUGH.
NOT EVERYONE NEAR THE PLANT
SHARES THE FEELINGS OF LINDA
FLOW AND THE PERSON THAT WAS IN
MATT'S REPORT, DO THEY?
>> THAT'S CORRECT, GARY.
IN FACT WE INTERVIEWED A FEW
PEOPLE FOR OUR STORY, IN FACT
THE ONE PERSON WHO LIVES CLOSEST
TO THE PLANT, AND HE'S LIVED
THERE FOR OVER TWO DECADES,
SAID HE'S HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH
THIS PLANT.
IN FACT, IN THIS LATEST SPILL,
NEVER LEFT HIS HOME, NEVER FELT
ANY ADVERSE EFFECTS FROM IT AND
SAID ANY TIME IN THE PAST WHEN
THERE HAS BEEN PROBLEMS AT THE
PLANT OR HE SMELLED AN ODOR,
HE'S CALLED THEM AND THEY'VE
RESPONDED.
SO THERE IS SOME PEOPLE WHO
NEVER LEFT AND OTHERS WHO HAVE
RETURNED SINCE.
>> Gary: SO THE TOWN IS NOT
MONOLITHICALLY AGAINST DIAZ
CHEMICALS?
>> WELL, SOME NEIGHBORS THAT
WE'VE SPOKE TO CERTAINLY SAID
THEY'VE HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH
THEM.
>> Gary: JOE, YOUR REPORTING
FOUND THAT THE NATURE OF THE
CHEMICAL,
2-CHLORO-6-FLUOROPHENOL, IT'S
KIND OF UNUSUAL.
IT'S SO NEW THAT NOBODY KNOWS
REALLY HOW TO TEST FOR IT OR
WHAT THE EFFECTS ARE.
DO YOU THINK THAT IS PART OF THE
PROBLEM FOR THIS PARTICULAR
SPILL?
>> WELL, THAT'S IT.
I MEAN, WHEN WE SPOKE WITH
RESIDENTS WHO WERE IN THE
HOTELS, THEY SAY THAT -- EXACTLY
THAT, YOU KNOW, THE DEPARTMENT
OF HEALTH AND OTHERS TELL THEM
THAT THEY REALLY HAVE NO WAY OF
TESTING FOR LONG-TERM EFFECTS.
BUT THEN YOU HEAR OTHERS WHO
SUGGEST THAT IT IS SAFE TO GO
HOME SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE
RUB AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE
CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE, WHERE
THERE'S NO TESTING BUT THEY'RE
SUGGESTING THAT IT'S OKAY TO GO
HOME.
>> Gary: I NEED TO ASK THIS OF
ALL OF YOU, BECAUSE IDEALLY IT
WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE SOMEONE
FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
HERE, DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU HAVE
AUTHORITIES TELLING INDIVIDUALS
TO USE THEIR OWN JUDGMENTS
WHETHER OR NOT THEY RETURN TO
THEIR HOMES.
AND IF YOU EXTRAPOLATE THAT TO
ALL THE MANUFACTURING THAT IS IN
MONROE COUNTY IN OUR AREA, NOT
JUST AROUND THE HOLLEY AREA,
THAT ANSWER IS USE YOUR OWN
JUDGMENT OF GOING BACK.
I HAVE TO ASK YOU, IS THAT PART
OF THE CONCERN THAT IS
GENERATING THE CONTROVERSY IN
HOLLEY RIGHT NOW?
>> WELL, CERTAINLY IT'S A REAL
PROBLEM WHEN THESE PEOPLE WHO
ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE EXPERTS
CAN'T TELL US WHAT'S SAFE; THEY
CAN'T TELL US WHAT THE IMPACTS
ARE.
THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS
CHEMICAL WAS BEING GENERATED AT
THIS LOCATION.
SO THERE'S A PROBLEM THAT THE
TESTING WASN'T DONE UP FRONT
BEFORE THEY STARTED PRODUCTION,
AND THERE'S A REAL PROBLEM HERE
WHEN THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT,
WHO'S THE EXPERTS, ARE SAYING TO
PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THAT
BACKGROUND, HEY, YOU MAKE UP
YOUR MIND.
AND TO ANY RESIDENTS, YOU HAVE
TO SAY, HEY, CAN YOU TAKE THAT
RISK WITH YOUR FAMILY WHEN THE
HEALTH DEPARTMENT DOESN'T KNOW
IT'S SAFE THAT YOU WANT TO MOVE
BACK INTO YOUR HOUSE AND EXPOSE
YOUR FAMILY?
>> Gary: LET ME ASK YOU
DIRECTLY, Mr. KNAUF: WILL THE
STATE OR THE D.E.C. OR THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH OR THE TOWN
OF HOLLEY OR THE COUNTY BE PART
OF YOUR LAWSUIT?
>> WE DON'T EXPECT THAT, NO.
WE EXPECT THAT THE PRIMARY
RESPONSIBLE PARTY HERE IS DIAZ
CHEMICAL.
CERTAINLY WE DON'T FEEL THAT
SOME OF THE OFFICIALS HAVE DONE
THE JOB THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE TO
KEEP ON TOP OF THIS AND TO MAKE
SURE THAT THE PROPER PERMITS
WERE IN PLACE OR THAT THE
REQUIREMENTS HAD BEEN MET.
>> Gary: OKAY.
BUT WHAT I'M HEARING FROM LINDA
IS, THOUGH, THAT THE CONFUSION
ABOUT WHAT THE PLANT DID OR IF
IT'S SAFE TO GO BACK, THAT
SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT.
ARE YOU SAYING IT'S DIAZ
CHEMICAL WHO IS THE TARGET, THE
FOCUS RIGHT NOW OF YOUR ANGER,
OR IS IT SOME OF THE STATE
AGENCIES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO
TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT IT'S
SAFE TO LIVE WHERE YOU LIVE?
>> IT IS -- THE TARGET IS DIAZ
BUT IT'S ALSO THE D.E.C.,
BECAUSE OF THE REGULATIONS, AND
ALSO, AS YOU HAD HEARD, YOU
CAN'T SMELL IT IN THE VILLAGE
BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT
BEING HARMED -- YOU'RE NOT BEING
HARMED BY IT BECAUSE THE ODOR
THRESHOLD IS SO LOW THAT YOU CAN
-- THERE'S CHEMICALS OUT THERE
THAT YOU CAN'T SMELL UNTIL
6-AND-A HALF PARTS PER MILLION,
BUT IT'S ALREADY DOING DAMAGE AT
2-AND-A-HALF PARTS PER MILLION.
>> Gary: OKAY.
LET ME CHALLENGE SOME OF THE
THINGS I'M HEARING, TOO.
AND, JOE, MAYBE I COULD HEAR YOU
ON THIS AS WELL.
YOUR REPORTING SHOWED UP THAT
THERE'S BEEN ABOUT 24, 25
INCIDENTS OF SPILLAGE OVER THE
YEARS AT DIAZ CHEMICAL, AND I
GUESS I JUST HAVE TO ASK: IS
THAT UNUSUAL FOR A CHEMICAL
COMPANY?
IS THAT -- OR A MANUFACTURING
COMPANY?
IS THAT MORE OR LESS OR DO WE
NOT KNOW?
>> WE ASKED THE D.E.C. THAT
QUESTION.
THEY SAID IT'S NOT THAT
EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT, ALTHOUGH
IT DOES APPEAR TO BE A LITTLE
MORE THAN USUAL, BUT OVER THE
COURSE OF THE 25 OR -- THEY
OPENED IN '74 SO, YOU KNOW, THE
26, 27 YEARS THAT THEY'VE BEEN
IN OPERATION, IT'S ABOUT ONE
INCIDENT A YEAR.
THEY SAY THAT'S A LITTLE MORE
BUT NOT EXTRAORDINARY.
>> Gary: ARE WE FOCUSING TOO
MUCH, THEN, ON HOLLEY?
BECAUSE, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH,
AND Mr. KNAUF YOU CAN WEIGH IN
ON THIS, IF EVERY TIME THERE WAS
A CHEMICAL SPILL AT A
MANUFACTURING PLANT, KODAK,
WHICH IS THE BIGGEST CHEMICAL
COMPANY PROBABLY IN AMERICA, YOU
KNOW, XEROX, BAUSCH & LOMB, ALL
THESE MAJOR COMPANIES WITH MAJOR
CHEMICALS THAT HAVE INCIDENTS
DAILY, IF WE SUED EVERY TIME ONE
OF THEM HAD A SPILL, THAT'S ALL
WE'D BE DOING.
>> WELL, WE HAVEN'T HAD THE KIND
OF SPILL LIKE YOU HAD IN HOLLEY
WHERE THE COMMUNITY WAS REALLY
BLANKETED WITH THIS CHEMICAL.
I GUESS I WOULD DIFFER WITH THE
D.E.C. OFFICIALS.
I LOOKED AT THE D.E.C. FILE AND
I WAS SHOCKED AT THE NUMBER OF
SPILL REPORTS.
I HAVE LOOKED AT A LOT OF FILES
ON A LOT OF COMPANIES AND,
GRANTED, MAYBE A COMPANY LIKE
KODAK WOULD HAVE MORE SPILLS
BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A HUGE
OPERATION; BUT FOR A COMPANY
THIS SIZE, IT WAS SHOCKING, AND
IT JUST SHOWS A PATTERN OF
INABILITY TO COPE WITH OR TO
KEEP A SAFE OPERATION.
>> Gary: WELL, LINDA, LET ME
TURN BACK TO YOU NOW.
THE COMPANY SAID IT'S BEEN A
PRETTY GOOD NEIGHBOR.
IT EMPLOYS 55 PEOPLE.
IT INVESTS IN THE COMMUNITY.
IT HAS INVESTED IN VOLUNTEER
PROGRAMS, AND IT SAYS IT'S BEEN
A PRETTY GOOD NEIGHBOR IN HOLLEY
AND THAT, IF THE GOAL IS TO MOVE
THAT COMPANY OUT OF HOLLEY, I
MEAN, HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT
WHAT YOU'RE LOSING?
>> WE ARE LOSING "X" AMOUNT OF
SCHOLARSHIPS AT THE SCHOOL,
OKAY?
OH, WELL.
BUT HOW MANY LIVES HAVE WE LOST
OR COULD LOSE?
YOU KNOW, HOW MANY LIVES -- MY
IN-LAWS FOR INSTANCE.
SHE WAS CLINGING TO HER KEYS
WHEN WE WERE TAKING HER OUT OF
THE HOUSE.
SHE HAS HEALTH PROBLEMS.
SHE'S IN THE HOSPITAL NOW.
SHE CANNOT RETURN TO THE HOTEL;
AND DIAZ, YES, IS GOING TO PUT
HER UP IN AN APARTMENT, BUT A
GOOD NEIGHBOR, I'M SORRY, NO,
THEY'RE NOT.
WE HAVE TOO MANY COMPLAINTS, TOO
MANY YEARS, AND THEY SHOULD NOT
BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE VILLAGE.
AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO LOSE?
50 CENTS PER THOUSAND ON TAXES?
THEY ONLY PAY 50,000 A YEAR
TOTAL TAXES.
>> Gary: JOE SPECTOR, YOU'VE
INTERVIEWED THE TOWN OF HOLLEY
OFFICIALS.
WHERE ARE THEY ON THIS?
I MEAN, DO THEY WANT TO SEE THE
COMPANY GO?
>> OH, WE -- YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
NO INDICATION OF THAT.
I MEAN, SOME OF THE HOLLEY
OFFICIALS WE CONTACTED HAVE NOT
RETURNED CALLS, BUT AGAIN, YOU
KNOW, I THINK IT'S A MIXED
SITUATION WHERE SOME FOLKS FEEL
THAT THEY ARE A NUISANCE AND
OTHERS FEEL THAT THEY ARE A GOOD
NEIGHBOR AND ARE DOING A GOOD
JOB TO HELP THE COMMUNITY.
>> Gary: JOE, WHAT'S NEXT FOR
THE REPORTING?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S NEXT IN THE
HOPPER FOR THIS, OTHER THAN THE
FILING OF THE LAWSUIT?
>> I THINK WE JUST CONTINUE TO
FOLLOW THE CASE.
I MEAN, CERTAINLY IF FOLKS DO GO
BACK TO THEIR HOMES, EVENTUALLY
WE'LL WANT TO KEEP UP ON THAT,
AS WELL AS THE LAWSUIT AND ANY
ADDITIONAL TESTING.
MAYBE NEW TESTING CAN REVEAL
SOME --
>> Gary: I'M ALSO RAISING THE
QUESTION, WHAT ROLE SHOULD THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND THE
D.E.C. HAVE IN SITUATIONS LIKE
THIS?
IT COULD EXTEND PARTLY BEYOND
HOLLEY.
UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S ALL THE
TIME THAT WE HAVE FOR THIS
DISCUSSION.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE DIAZ
CHEMICAL SPILL, PLEASE LOG ONTO
OUR WEB SITE AT wxxi.org/ntk.
NOW, WHILE YOU'RE THERE YOU CAN
ALSO TAKE PART IN OUR WEEKLY
SURVEY QUESTION, AND FOR
COMPREHENSIVE DAILY COVERAGE OF
STATE ISSUES AND NEWS, IT'S
nycitizens.org.
NOW IT'S TIME FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF THE BUSINESS SECTION
FOR THE "DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE."
(Music)
>> Gary: JOINING US NOW IN
STUDIO IS ELLEN ROSEN, THE
BUSINESS EDITOR FOR THE
"THE DEMOCRAT
AND CHRONICLE."
ELLEN, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN
THIS WEEK.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Gary: OKAY.
RIGHT OFF THE BAT, IN THE
MORNING PAPER, KODAK SUING SUN
MICROSYSTEMS FOR SOMETHING THAT
HAS TO DO WITH THE JAVA
TECHNOLOGY.
JAVA ARE HUGE ON THE INTERNET.
I MEAN, HALF OF EVERYTHING
THAT'S ON THERE IS JAVA.
>> JAVA IS THE PREFERRED
SOFTWARE NOW FOR -- SOFTWARE
WRITING, PREFERRED LANGUAGE FOR
SOFTWARE WRITING, SO IT'S VERY
HOT NOW.
SOMETHING LIKE HALF OF THE
SOFTWARE WRITING BEING DONE NOW
USES THE JAVA LANGUAGE.
SO THIS IS A CASE OF KODAK
TRYING TO RECLAIM WHAT'S CALLED
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY.
THEY CLAIM THAT THIS --
>> Gary: AND THEY'VE BEEN
AGGRESSIVE ABOUT THIS.
>> RIGHT.
YEAH.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE
SEEING IN OTHER COMPANIES, TOO.
YOU SAW U of R DO IT WITH THE
COX-2 ENZYME WITH SOME OF THE
DRUG MANUFACTURERS.
YOU'VE SEEN KODAK GO AFTER SOME
DIGITAL CAMERA COMPANIES AND
SOME OTHER THINGS BECAUSE
BASICALLY THEY DON'T WANT --
THEY'VE CREATED THIS TECHNOLOGY.
THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY
PROFIT FROM IT.
>> Gary: DO YOU THINK IT'S GOING
TO BE A SIGNIFICANT CASH FLOW IF
THIS COMES OUT, OR THERE'S NO
WAY OF KNOWING?
>> THERE'S NO WAY REALLY OF
KNOWING, YES, BUT GIVEN THE
BROAD USE OF JAVA RIGHT NOW, I
THINK THAT IT'S SOMETHING --
IT'S BOTH THE CASH AND IT'S
BEING ABLE TO SAY THEY DON'T
WANT TO BE IN A POSITION OF
XEROX IS AND SAYING WE INVENTED
THE MOUSE BUT SOMEBODY ELSE TOOK
IT TO MARKET.
>> Gary: EXACTLY.
I'VE BEEN HEARING "ENRONIZING"
ALL THE TIME.
WITH KRISPY KREME NOW CHANGING
ITS ACCOUNTING PRACTICES AND
KODAK COMING OUT AND SAYING
WE'RE NOT ENRON.
AND NOW WE HAVE TO USE ANOTHER
VERBAL, GLOBALIZING.
A LOT GOING ON WITH GLOBAL
CROSSING.
>> WELL, AND THEY'RE STARTING TO
MAKE SOME CONNECTIONS BETWEEN
GLOBAL CROSSING AND ENRON, NOT
ACTUAL CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THE
COMPANIES BUT THEY WERE PERHAPS
WERE DOING SOME OF THE SAME
KINDS OF THINGS.
FOR INSTANCE NOW THE SECURITY
AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION AND THE
F.B.I. ARE BOTH INVESTIGATING
GLOBAL.
THE F.E.C. HAS DELIVERED SOME
SUBPOENAS DELIVERED TO QUEST,
WHICH IS THE BIG, MAIN PHONE
COMPANY OUT IN THE WESTERN
STATES.
BASICALLY IT'S THE SAME KIND OF
THING ENRON DID.
IT WAS CONTRACTS BETWEEN GLOBAL
AND QUEST TO SWAP SOME LINE
USAGE.
THEY CALL THEM SWAPS.
YOU CAN USE MY LINES; I CAN USE
YOUR LINES.
BUT THEN THEY PUT THEM ON THEIR
BOOKS AND BOOK THEM AS REVENUE.
SO IS THAT LEGITIMATE OR NOT?
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS
THEY'RE LOOKING INTO.
>> Gary: I KNOW THAT
Mr. WINNICK, THE FOUNDER AND THE
CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, JUST SENT
A LETTER APOLOGIZING.
BUT, NONETHELESS, HE'S NOT
SAYING WE'RE GOING TO MAKE WHOLE
YOUR 401(k)s.
>> NO.
>> Gary: OR YOUR INVESTMENTS.
>> NO, THEY CAN'T DO THAT, AND
WE CONTINUE TO HEAR STORIES OF
EMPLOYEES WHO ARE REALLY IN
DIFFICULTY.
WE HAVE A REPORTER, RICH
MULLINS, WHO'S LOOKING INTO
THIS.
AND PEOPLE WHO LOST EVERYTHING.
>> Gary: RIGHT HERE IN
ROCHESTER.
>> RIGHT HERE IN ROCHESTER, A
GENTLEMAN WHO LOST 700, $800,000
WORTH OF STOCK.
YOU CAN ARGUE THESE PEOPLE HELD
ONTO IT TOO LONG.
BUT IN THE CASE OF SOME
EMPLOYEES, IT WAS IN THEIR
401(k)s FROM WHEN THEY WERE WITH
FRONTIER TELEPHONE.
>> Gary: IT CARRIED OVER,
EXACTLY.
>> ALL OF THIS -- THE
INVESTIGATION AT GLOBAL IS
EXPANDING.
WE KNOW LOUISE SLAUGHTER CALLED
THIS WEEK, WE CALLED
INVESTIGATIONS, AND NOW THERE'S
WORD OUT TODAY THE CONGRESS
COMMITTEE OF THE CONGRESS MAY
START LOOKING INTO GLOBAL, INTO
SOME OF THEIR BUSINESS
PRACTICES.
AND SLAUGHTER'S ALSO ASKED
LOOKING INTO THE WORKPLACE
ISSUES AND HOW THESE EMPLOYEES
WERE AFFECTED BY 401(k)s.
>> Gary: BIG DEVELOPMENT STORY.
JUST, ON A PERSONAL NOTE, I JUST
MADE CONTACT WITH MY TAX RETURN
SPECIALIST, AND I HAVE TO ASK,
IT'S TAX SEASON.
ANYTHING TO LOOK FORWARD TO?
ANYTHING NEW THAT WE NEED TO
BE --
>> THERE HAVEN'T BEEN A LOT OF
CHANGES IN THE TAX CODE THIS
YEAR, SO YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY
MORE DIFFICULTY DOING YOUR TAXES
THAN YOU DID LAST YEAR.
A LOT OF PEOPLE, ABOUT HALF THE
PEOPLE GO TO A PREPARER, SO IT
SHOULDN'T BE ANY MORE
COMPLICATED.
BUT WE HAVE A STORY LOOKING AT
THIS SUNDAY AT SOME OF THE
CHANGES OF THINGS.
THE REAL BIG SOURCE OF CONFUSION
SEEMS TO BE WHAT PEOPLE CALLED
COLLOQUIALLY THE TAX REBATE BUT
ACTUALLY WAS AN ADVANCED CREDIT
ON THE REDUCTION IN TAXES YOU
WERE GOING TO GET.
>> Gary: YOU MEAN THE $300 FROM
THE PRESIDENT?
>> YES.
>> Gary: THAT'S NOT A REBATE?
>> IT'S NOT REALLY A REBATE.
IT WAS ADVANCE ON A 5% TAX
REDUCTION.
NOW, IF YOU'VE GOT THE WHOLE
AMOUNT THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO
GET, WHICH WAS $300 FOR A SINGLE
FILER ON THE FIRST $6,000 AND
$600 ON THE FIRST $12,000,
YOU'RE OKAY.
IF YOU GOT YOUR FULL AMOUNT,
YOU'RE OKAY.
IF YOU GOT LESS THAN THAT, THEN
THERE'S SOMETHING YOU SHOULD
LOOK AT IN THE I.R.S. WORK
SHEETS WITH YOUR TAX TO SEE IF
MAYBE YOU'RE ENTITLED TO SOME
MORE.
>> Gary: THERE YOU GO.
STAY ON TOP OF IT.
WE'LL SEE THAT IN THE PAPER ON
SUNDAY?
>> SUNDAY.
>> Gary: OKAY, ELLEN, THANK YOU
VERY MUCH FOR THIS WEEK'S
REPORT.
THE STORY WE'RE ABOUT TO SHOW
YOU LITERALLY STARTED OUT AS A
LOVE OF HISTORY.
TODAY IT HAS TURNED INTO A
THRIVING BUSINESS THAT PAYS
TRIBUTE TO OLD BOOKS.
PRODUCER JOY PARKER BRINGS US
THE LATEST CHAPTER FOR A LOCAL
SHOP OWNER.
>> I STARTED DOING THIS ABOUT
TEN YEARS AGO.
I DABBLED IN IT.
I WENT TO AUCTIONS AND FLEA
MARKETS AND COLLECTED BOOKS TO
READ, BUT IN THE PROCESS I SORT
OF FELL IN LOVE WITH BOOKS AS
OBJECTS.
THE ART OF THE BOOK HAS BEEN
LOST; IT'S LIKE MANY THINGS GONE
FROM AN ART TO AN INDUSTRY.
THE HUNT FOR BOOKS IS EXCITING
IF YOU'RE A COLLECTOR AND ALSO A
SELLER LIKE I AM.
IT'S FUN TO DISCOVER THINGS THAT
YOU DIDN'T KNOW EXISTED, AND I
REALLY STARTED HAVING FUN
HELPING PEOPLE FIND THINGS FOR
THEIR COLLECTIONS.
I DON'T REALLY COLLECT ANYTHING
MYSELF.
BEING THE BOOK SELLER'S MY WAY
OF OWNING THINGS FOR A LITTLE
WHILE AND I MOVE THEM ON TO A
HOME WHERE THEY'RE APPRECIATED,
BUT I JUST LIKE BOOKS.
WITH MODERN BOOKS, LIKE "THE
HOBBIT" THAT WE HAVE, THE
PRESENCE OF THE DUST JACKET IS
VERY IMPORTANT.
IT'S THE ORIGINAL PART OF THE
BOOK THAT THE COLLECTOR WANTS.
IN THIS CASE IT'S ESPECIALLY
EXCITING BECAUSE THE BLURB ON
THE DUST JACKET SAYS "ITS PLACE
IS WITH ALICE AND THE WIND AND
THE WILLOWS.
THE HOBBIT MAY WELL PROVE TO BE
A CLASSIC," AND THAT'S A QUOTE
BOY THE "LONDON TIMES" AND
THAT'S THE FIRST AMERICAN
EDITION, AND THAT'S EXCITING
BECAUSE THERE'S A COPY OF THE
BOOK AS IT APPEARED IN AMERICA
FOR THE FIRST TIME BEFORE
ANYBODY KNEW WHAT IT WAS, AND
VIRTUALLY EVERY CHILD IN
AMERICA, PROBABLY EVEN MOST
ADULTS IN AMERICA, HAVE READ
THAT BOOK.
THAT'S THE MAGIC OF FIRST
EDITIONS.
I LIKE THE SURPRISE YOU JUST
NEVER KNOW WHERE SOMETHING GOOD
WILL TURN UP.
WE'VE FOUND VERY OLD BOOKS IN
VERY MODERN HOUSES AND WE'VE
FOUND THINGS IN BARNS.
IT'S JUST AMAZING WHERE THINGS
TURN UP.
WE TOOK OUR 48 HOURS OFF THE
BEGINNING OF THE YEAR AND NOW
WE'RE BACK TO 7 DAYS A WEEK.
IT NEVER ENDS.
BUT IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU DO,
IT'S WORTH THE HEADACHES.
I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE
I'D RATHER DO.
(Music)
>> Gary: BY THE WAY, THE FIRST
EDITION OF "THE HOBBIT" SOLD FOR
$15,000 TO A PRIVATE COLLECTOR
IN PHOENIX, ARIZONA.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THE
STORY YOU JUST WATCHED AND THIS
WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW"
IN GENERAL, OR TO DISCUSS ANY OF
THE TOPICS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT
TODAY, JUST LOG ONTO
wxxi.org/ntk.
THAT'S ALL FOR THIS WEEK.
WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
(Music)