Doyle's Budget -- 10 October 2002

>> Michael: JUST AHEAD ON
"NEED TO KNOW," THE LAST TIME
MONROE COUNTY GOVERNMENT
RAISED PROPERTY TAXES, BILL
CLINTON WAS JUST TAKING
OFFICE, THE WACO STANDOFF MADE
HEADLINES, AND DISCUSSIONS HAD
BEGUN ON A NEW BALLPARK TO
REPLACE SILVER STADIUM.
IF COUNTY EXECUTIVE JACK DOYLE
HAS HIS WAY, THERE WOULD BE NO
PROPERTY TAX INCREASE IN 2003,
BUT THERE ARE SOME COUNTY
LAWMAKERS WHO BELIEVE NOW MAY
BE THE TIME TO INCREASE THE
TAX AND SAVE SOME COUNTY
SERVICES.
TONIGHT WE INVITE FOUR
LEGISLATORS TO BEGIN THE
DEBATE ON TAXING AND SPENDING
IN MONROE COUNTY.
WE ALSO HAVE OUR WEEKLY
BUSINESS SECTION WITH ELLEN
ROSEN OF THE "DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE."
THAT'S ALL JUST AHEAD ON "NEED
TO KNOW."
>> WE ARE VERY PROUD TO UNVEIL
THE 2003 MONROE COUNTY BUDGET,
A BUDGET THAT MAKES THE TOUGH
CHOICES NECESSARY TO PROTECT
LOCAL JOBS AND OUR FAMILY
BUDGETS.
(Music)
>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE
ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH
NEWS PROGRAM.
"NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION
OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS COVERING ISSUES,
POLITICS, EDUCATION AND
CURRENT EVENTS.
>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY DORSCHEL LEXUS AND
THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS
LIKE YOU.
>> Michael: THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US.
I'M MICHAEL CAPUTO.
COUNTY EXECUTIVE JACK DOYLE
UNVEILED HIS MUCH ANTICIPATED
2003 PROPOSED BUDGET THIS
WEEK.
EARLIER THIS YEAR THE COUNTY
CLAIMED IT COULD FACE A
DEFICIT OF AS MUCH AS $65
MILLION IF THERE WERE NO
CHANGES TO THE BUDGET, BUT
DOYLE DID MAKE CHANGES THAT
INCLUDED A NUMBER OF CUTS, BUT
DOYLE ALSO STOOD FAST ON HIS
VOW NOT TO RAISE PROPERTY
TAXES.
SOME COUNTY LAWMAKERS,
HOWEVER, INCLUDING SOME IN
DOYLE'S OWN REPUBLICAN PARTY,
WANT TO EXPLORE A PROPERTY TAX
HIKE.
THE DOYLE BUDGET CONCENTRATES
ON SPENDING, CUTTING IT BY
MORE THAN $40 MILLION.
THAT INCLUDES CUTS TO COUNTY
FUNDING FOR ARTS ORGANIZATIONS
AND OTHER NONPROFIT GROUPS,
ALTHOUGH HE DID RESTORE SOME
FUNDING.
THE PROPOSED BUDGET ALSO
CONTAINS ENOUGH MONEY TO KEEP
OPEN THE PARKS DURING THE
WEEK, SOMETHING DOYLE HAD
ORIGINALLY INTENDED TO CUT.
THE BIGGEST SINGLE SAVINGS IN
THE TENTATIVE BUDGET, HOWEVER,
COMES FROM A NEW AND UNTRIED
PROPOSAL.
THE COUNTY WANTS TO SAVE
MILLIONS BY MERGING SOCIAL
SERVICE AGENCIES.
IT'S AN IDEA THAT HAS GAINED
STATEWIDE ATTENTION AND SOME
CRITICS.
"NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT CUMMINGS
TAKES A LOOK AT THE LINCHPIN
OF THE DOYLE BUDGET BALANCING
ACT, THE REORGANIZATION OF
SOCIAL SERVICES.
>> ...USED QUITE A BIT OF THE
BENCHMARKING THAT WE'VE DONE
OVER THE YEARS WITH RESPECT
TO--
>> Matt: THIS DOESN'T SOUND
EXCITING.
>> ...WORK FLOW MODELS, ET
CETERA, AS PART OF ALL THIS,
YES.
>> Matt: BUT TO THIS PACKED
ROOM OF REPRESENTATIVES FROM
COUNTIES ACROSS THE STATE,
THIS WAS MUSIC TO THEIR EARS.
IT WAS CLEAR AT THE ANNUAL NEW
YORK STATE ASSOCIATION OF
COUNTIES, HELD RECENTLY IN
ROCHESTER, THAT COUNTY
GOVERNMENTS ARE STRUGGLING TO
MAKE ENDS MEET.
ENTER MONROE COUNTY, WHO PUT
THEIR PLANS TO REORGANIZE THE
DELIVERY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN
SERVICES ON DISPLAY.
THEY TOLD THE CROWD THEY HOPE
TO SAVE A PROJECTED $30
MILLION NEXT YEAR.
THEY'VE SAID THEY CAN REDUCE
THE WORK FORCE, STREAMLINE THE
DELIVERY OF SERVICES AND SAVE
TAXPAYERS MONEY.
IT WAS THIS SAME MESSAGE
COUNTY EXECUTIVE JACK DOYLE
DELIVERED WITH HIS 2003
BUDGET.
>> THIS IS A SYSTEM THAT HAS
CREATED AND GROWN A CULTURE
FOR THE LAST 43 OR SO YEARS,
AND IT'S TIME TO MAKE THE
CHANGES.
AND IF MONROE COUNTY HAS TO BE
THE COUNTY ON THE CUTTING EDGE
OF MAKING THE CHANGES FOR THE
STATE OF NEW YORK OR THE ONLY
COUNTY IN THE STATE OF NEW
YORK TO DO IT, SO BE IT.
>> Matt: DOYLE'S PLAN IS TO
MERGE THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL
SERVICES, THE MATERNAL AND
CHILD HEALTH DIVISION OF THE
HEALTH DEPARTMENT, THE OFFICE
OF MENTAL HEALTH, THE OFFICE
FOR THE AGING AND THE YOUTH
BUREAU INTO ONE
MEGADEPARTMENT.
HE CALLS IT ONE-STOP SHOPPING
FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, ENDING A
PERSON'S NEED TO MEET WITH A
DIFFERENT PERSON FOR EACH
PROGRAM HE OR SHE APPLIES FOR.
BUT THERE ARE CRITICS.
ONE UNION LEADER SAYS
REQUIRING OVERWORKED CASE
WORKERS TO KNOW COMPLICATED
RULES FOR VARIOUS PROGRAMS IS
UNREALISTIC.
>> THE PROGRAMMATIC
REQUIREMENTS ARE JUST
OUTRAGEOUS.
THE REGULATIONS THAT YOU NEED
TO KNOW HOW TO DO THINGS,
MEDICAID IS AN ABSOLUTE BEAR
OF A BUDGET BECAUSE SO MANY
PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT LEVELS CAN
BE ELIGIBLE WITHIN A FAMILY
WHERE OTHERS ARE NOT, AND
KNOWING ALL THOSE VARIATIONS
IS-- IT'S A PRETTY MONUMENTAL
TASK.
TO ASSUME THAT 100 TEMPORARY
ASSISTANCE EXAMINERS ARE GOING
TO PICK THAT UP IN A FEW
MONTHS IS A LITTLE NAIVE.
>> Matt: VASKO BELIEVES
CLIENTS ARE GOING TO WAIT
LONGER FOR SERVICES.
ANOTHER QUESTION IS WHETHER
THE COUNTY CAN PULL THIS OFF
BY JANUARY 1st IN ORDER TO
REALIZE THE SAVINGS WITHOUT
HURTING SERVICES.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
ABSOLUTELY.
THEY CAN LEARN THE REGULATIONS
AND THEY CAN LEARN.
IT DOES TAKE SOME DEGREE OF
EXPERTISE ON CERTAIN
COMPLICATED AREAS AND THEY CAN
REFER-- THEY CAN GO BACK TO
THIS INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS THAT
PARTICULAR KNOWLEDGE, BUT THE
SPECTRUM OF INTAKE, THEY CAN
HANDLE THE SPECTRUM OF INTAKE
AND BE KNOWLEDGEABLE.
>> Matt: HOWEVER VASKO SAYS
THAT EXPERIENCE JUST ISN'T
THERE ANYMORE.
TOP OFFICIALS AT THE
DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES
TOOK DOYLE'S EARLY RETIREMENT
OPTION, INCLUDING THE
DIRECTOR, THREE DEPUTY
DIRECTORS AND SOME
ADMINISTRATIVE EXAMINERS AND
CASE WORKERS.
>> SO THERE'S ONLY A FEW THAT
HAVE THAT LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE
THAT, YOU KNOW, CAN CARRY THAT
ON.
AND IT'S KIND OF FRIGHTENING
FOR THE WORKERS BECAUSE THEY
HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK TO FOR
EITHER PROTECTION, FOR ADVICE,
FOR INTERPRETATIONS OF THE
LAW.
IT'S KIND OF A SCARY
PROPOSITION.
>> Matt: COUNTY FUNDING CUTS
ARE NOT LIMITED TO COUNTY
SOCIAL SERVICE AGENCIES.
CUTS ARE COMING TO NONPROFIT
SOCIAL SERVICE GROUPS THAT
CONTRACT WITH THE COUNTY.
>> THERE ARE A NUMBER OF
AGENCIES WHERE THE COUNTY
FUNDS ARE USED TO LEVERAGE
OTHER FUNDS FROM THE STATE AND
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SO THAT THE
COUNTY CUTTING A PROGRAM--
LET'S SAY THEY'RE GOING TO CUT
YOU BY 25%.
WELL, IF YOUR OTHER 25% MATCH
FROM THE STATE DEPENDS ON
GETTING THAT, THEN YOU'RE CUT
BY 50%.
>> Matt: DOYLE'S BUDGET AND
THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THOSE
SOCIAL SERVICE REFORMS ARE
DOABLE IS SCHEDULED TO PASS
INTO THE HANDS OF THE COUNTY
LEGISLATURE FOR A VOTE NEXT
MONTH.
SUPPORTERS OF THE PLAN SAY
IT'S DIFFICULT BUT NECESSARY
TO PROTECT TAXPAYERS BY
KEEPING COSTS DOWN.
>> I THINK IT WILL BE
DIFFICULT BUT I THINK IT'S
DOABLE.
I THINK THAT THERE WILL BE
SOME BEGINNING MISSTEPS BUT
THEY CAN-- THEY'LL BE EASILY
CORRECTED, I THINK IF
EVERYBODY FOCUSED ON THE SAME
ISSUE.
>> Matt: OTHERS WONDER IF THE
CUTS ARE TOO DEEP.
>> I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF
PROMISES THAT ARE GOING TO BE
HARD TO KEEP AND-- I HAVE NO
CLUE HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO IT.
(Music)
>> Michael: THANKS, MATT.
HERE IN STUDIO TO CONTINUE THE
CONVERSATION AND PREVIEW THE
BUDGET DEBATE EXPECTED IN THE
COUNTY LEGISLATIVE CHAMBERS
ARE FOUR COUNTY LAWMAKERS;
REPUBLICANS RAYMOND SANTIROCCO
AND MAJORITY LEADER WILLIAM
SMITH, DEMOCRATS LYNDA GARNER
GOLDSTEIN AND CHRISTOPHER
WILMOT.
THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING.
WE MIGHT AS WELL JUST START
WITH WHAT WE JUST HEARD.
CAN WE PULL OFF THIS
REORGANIZATION BY JANUARY AND
CAN WE SAVE $30 MILLION WITH
THIS REORGANIZATION?
I'LL THROW IT OUT TO ALL OF
YOU.
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL LET ME
SAY I THINK THE REORGANIZATION
IS WELL CONCEIVED.
IT'S LONG OVERDUE.
IT'S BASED ON SOUND PRINCIPLES
THAT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED AND
DEMONSTRATED OVER AND OVER
AGAIN IN INDUSTRY, BUT THE
EXPERIENCE WE ALSO HAVE FROM
INDUSTRY IS THAT THESE MASSIVE
REORGANIZATIONS, THESE
CULTURAL REVOLUTIONS IN
COMPANIES, AND WE'VE SEEN
THEM-- WE'VE SEEN THEM IN
KODAK; WE'VE SEEN THEM IN
XEROX AND MOTOROLA AND SO ON.
THEY'RE MORE STRESSFUL AND
THEY GENERALLY TAKE MORE TIME
THAN PLANNED.
SO I THINK THAT IT'S FRANKLY
NOT TERRIBLY LIKELY THAT WE
CAN HAVE, BY JANUARY 1st, IN
POSITION SOMETHING THAT'S
GOING TO SAVE US ALL OF THE
$30 MILLION.
I THINK IT WILL TAKE US
LONGER.
>> Michael: CORRECT ME IF I'M
WRONG, TOO: $30 MILLION ARE
NOT HARD DOLLARS.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO SAVE $30
MILLION BY CUTTING THE STAFF.
AM I RIGHT, LYNDA?
>> WELL, MY UNDERSTANDING IS
THAT THE REPORT DOESN'T EVEN
RECOMMEND THAT IT'S A $30
MILLION SAVINGS THAT CAN BE
MADE FROM THEIR SUGGESTIONS.
BUT TO DOVETAIL ON SOMETHING
RAY SAID, WHAT CONCERNS ME IS
THAT WE ARE TURNING
SPECIALISTS INTO GENERALISTS,
AND OUR EXPERIENCE IN THIS
COMMUNITY WITH DOING THAT AT
XEROX WAS A DISASTER, AND I AM
CONCERNED ABOUT THE CHILDREN
WHO ARE GOING TO BE THE
VICTIMS OF THE MISSTEPS THAT
YOU'VE ADMITTED ARE GOING TO
HAPPEN.
AND WE ALREADY HAVE SERIOUS
PROBLEMS IN THIS COMMUNITY, TO
MY MIND, THAT WE'RE NOT
DEALING WITH ON CHILDREN
LIVING IN POVERTY, AND I DON'T
WANT TO MAKE IT WORSE FOR THEM
BY DOING THIS.
>> Michael: BUT, CORRECT ME IF
I'M WRONG AGAIN HERE, BUT
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 62% OF THE
TOTAL BUDGET.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALMOST A
900-- OVER A $900 MILLION
BUDGET.
MOST OF IT IS SOCIAL SERVICE
SPENDING.
WHERE ELSE COULD COUNTY
EXECUTIVE DOYLE GO IF HE HAS
TO CUT BACK?
CHRIS?
>> WELL, MY CONCERN, WE SAW--
I GIVE THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE
SOME CREDIT.
WE SAW SOME RESTORATION OF
MONEY FOR THE MUSEUM AND
SCIENCE CENTER, FOR SOME OF
THE ARTS AND SOME OF THE
CULTURE INSTITUTIONS THAT
WE'VE COME TO DEPEND ON IN
THIS COMMUNITY, LIBRARIES,
PARKS, ET CETERA.
BUT I DO BELIEVE UNFORTUNATELY
THAT THE BUDGET IS BEING
BALANCED ON THE BACKS OF
LOW-INCOME PEOPLE, LOW-INCOME
CHILDREN.
IT'S CYNICAL, BUT WE ALL KNOW
THAT LOW-INCOME PEOPLE
TYPICALLY VOTE LESS OFTEN THAN
PEOPLE OF MIDDLE INCOME OR
WEALTHY PEOPLE.
THE FACT IS I THINK
DISPROPORTIONATELY THIS BUDGET
IS GOING TO HURT PEOPLE IN MY
DISTRICT, AND I REPRESENT AN
URBAN DISTRICT; AND YOU SAY
CAN THE SAVINGS COME FROM
SOMEWHERE ELSE?
I THINK SO.
I THINK, AS MY GOOD FRIEND
Mr. SANTIROCCO KNOWS, THE
COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENT IS AN
EXCELLENT PLACE FOR US TO
DEBATE THE MERITS OF MAYBE
HAVING LESS GOVERNMENT IN
MONROE COUNTY AND IN NEW YORK
STATE.
WE HAVE FAR TOO MUCH
GOVERNMENT IN THIS COUNTY.
THAT'S WHERE WE SHOULD FIND
THE SAVINGS.
TOO MANY VILLAGES.
TOO MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
TOO MANY DISTRICTS, PERIOD,
INSTEAD OF HURTING LOW-INCOME
PEOPLE.
>> Michael: Mr. SMITH, I WANT
TO THROW THE SAME QUESTION TO
YOU.
62, SOMETHING LIKE THAT,
PERCENT OF THE BUDGET IS
SOCIAL SERVICE.
WHERE ELSE COULD WE HAVE GONE?
>> I THINK YOU PUT YOUR FINGER
ON IT, AND I THINK PEOPLE NEED
TO REALIZE THAT, OUT OF A
COUNTY BUDGET THAT IS CLOSE TO
$1 BILLION, THE LOCAL COUNTY
GOVERNMENT ONLY HAS
DISCRETION, ONLY HAS CONTROL
OVER, FROM YEAR TO YEAR, OVER
ABOUT 20%, USUALLY SLIGHTLY
LESS, OF ALL THAT SPENDING.
NOW THAT 20% IS THE PORTION
WHERE ALL THE PROGRAMS WHERE
CUTS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED.
THOSE ARE ALL THE PROGRAMS
THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE
PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY WOULD
LIKE, AND IT'S THE OTHER
COMPONENT OF THE BUDGET, THE
UNFUNDED STATE MANDATES, AND
ESPECIALLY THE DRAMATIC
INCREASE IN MEDICAID; WE DON'T
HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER THE
EXTENT OF THE MEDICAID
PROGRAM, WHAT'S PROVIDED,
WHO'S ELIGIBLE.
THE ONLY THING WE'RE ALLOWED
TO DO IS TO PAY FOR IT.
THAT'S WHAT HAS BROUGHT US TO
THE BUDGET CRUNCH SITUATION WE
ARE AT NOW.
NOW, AS FAR AS THE AL TRADE
PROPOSAL GOES, YOU HAVE TO
LOOK AT THIS IN CONTEXT.
I HAD MANY OF THE SAME
CONCERNS THAT RAY HAS
SUGGESTED WHEN THIS WAS FIRST
ANNOUNCED, BUT GETTING FURTHER
INTO IT, IT SEEMS A LOT MORE
PLAUSIBLE.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SAVING 30
MILLION, WHICH IS 15% OUT OF A
DEPARTMENTAL BUDGET OF
APPROXIMATELY 200 MILLION.
THAT ITSELF, 15% SAVINGS IN
THE YEAR, IS A PLAUSIBLE GOAL
FOR MOST ORGANIZATIONS.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT SAVING,
ABOUT HALF ARE THINGS OVER
WHICH WE HAVE DIRECT AND
INDISPUTABLE CONTROL; WORK
FORCE REDUCTIONS AND ALSO
REDUCTIONS IN THE AMOUNT OF
CONTRACTED SERVICES.
THE REST IS TO BE MADE UP
THROUGH EFFICIENCIES.
>> Michael: WELL, AM I RIGHT,
THOUGH, THAT THERE'S A LOT-- A
LOT OF THE MONEY'S SUPPOSED TO
BE MADE UP IN A DROP IN THE
CASE LOADS?
HOW CAN YOU COUNT ON A DROP IN
THE CASE LOADS TO EVEN OCCUR?
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THE AL
TRADE STUDY DISCOVERED WAS
THAT THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT
TIME LAG BETWEEN IDENTIFYING
THOSE FOLKS WHO WERE USING
VARIOUS OF THE SERVICES WITHIN
THE DEPARTMENT WHO ARE NO
LONGER ELIGIBLE FOR THEM AND
THE TIME THE DEPARTMENT GETS
AROUND TO FIGURING THAT OUT
AND TRANSITIONING THEM OUT OF
THE SYSTEM; BY MAKING A MORE
EFFICIENT SERVICE, BY GOING TO
ONE-STOP SHOPPING, WHERE THOSE
WHO USE SOCIAL SERVICES CAN GO
JUST TO ONE CASE WORKER FOR
ALL THEIR NEEDS RATHER THAN
HAVING TO GO TO TWO, THREE,
FOUR, UP TO EIGHT DIFFERENT
ONES FOR VARIOUS NEEDS THEY
MAY HAVE.
IT'S GOING TO BE A LOT MORE
EFFICIENT AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO
MOVE PEOPLE THROUGH THE SYSTEM
MORE QUICKLY.
>> Michael: LYNDA, WOULD YOU
CARE TO COMMENT ON THIS?
>> A COUPLE THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL, WE'VE ALREADY
SEEN, I THINK, THE RESULT OF
WELFARE REFORM, AND THERE HAS
BEEN ALREADY A BIG DROP IN
CASE LOADS, AND I DON'T
ANTICIPATE THAT IT CAN
CONTINUE TO FALL AT THE SAME
RATE THAT IT HAS.
BUT ALSO WE-- OUR CASE WORKERS
ARE CARRYING HUGE CASE LOADS,
AND THIS IS A MATTER OF
CONCERN.
I MEAN, THEIR CASE LOADS HAVE
GONE STEADILY UP.
WHEN I FIRST CAME INTO THE
LEGISLATURE, THEY WERE TALKING
ABOUT HOW THERE WAS A STATE
RECOMMENDED LIMIT AND THEY
WERE OVER THE LIMIT BY MAYBE
10%.
WELL NOW IT'S LIKE TWO AND
THREE TIMES WHAT THE LIMIT IS;
AND I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH
MORE WE CAN ASK THESE PEOPLE
TO DO.
>> Michael: I AM GOING TO
CHANGE THE SUBJECT AND I AM
GOING TO BRING UP-- JUST THE
OTHER DAY JOHN ALBERGER SAID
HE'S GOING TO RAISE TAXES
ABOUT 3% IN GREECE.
OTHER TOWNS HAVE RAISED TAXES.
TOWNS EVEN CONTROLLED BY
REPUBLICANS, THEY'VE RAISED
TAXES.
WHY SHOULDN'T THE COUNTY RAISE
TAXES, RAY?
>> WELL, IT'S A FUNDAMENTAL
QUESTION OF HOW MUCH DO WE
WANT TO GIVE UP AND HOW MUCH
ARE WE WILLING TO PAY NOT TO
GIVE THINGS UP?
(Chuckling)
EXCUSE ME.
IT'S A QUESTION OF THE VALUE
OF SOME OF THESE SERVICES THAT
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT; NOT ONLY
THE ARTS, WHICH HAVE BEEN
GETTING ALL THE ATTENTION, BUT
AS YOU POINTED OUT EARLIER,
IT'S REALLY THE SOCIAL
SERVICES AREA THAT IS THE
LARGE DOLLAR VALUE.
BUT ARE THESE THINGS VALUABLE
TO US?
ARE THEY IMPORTANT TO THE
COMMUNITY?
DO THEY GIVE US A COMPETITIVE
ADVANTAGE IN ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT AND SO ON?
I THINK YES, AND I THINK WE
NEED TO-- THERE ARE GOING TO
BE CUTS.
THERE IS GOING TO BE PAIN.
BUT I THINK WE CAN TAKE THE
EDGE OFF SOME OF THAT AND I
THINK WE NEED TO RETAIN SOME
OF THESE THINGS, AND THE ONLY
WAY TO DO IT IS WITH NEW
REVENUE, AND A SMALL INCREASE
IN THE PROPERTY TAX IS AN
IMPORTANT POSSIBLE SOURCE OF
NEW REVENUE.
>> Michael: CHRIS?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S A VERY
DIFFICULT ISSUE.
ADVANCE UPSTATE NEW YORK CAME
OUT WITH A REPORT IN 1999 THAT
SAID, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL
LOCAL TAX BURDEN IN MONROE
COUNTY IN THIS REGION, WE'RE
ABOUT THE FIFTH OR
SIXTH-HIGHEST TAXED
METROPOLITAN AREA IN THE
UNITED STATES.
WE HAVE NEARLY DOUBLE THE TAX
BURDEN OF OTHER METROPOLITAN
AREAS AROUND THE NATION.
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR ANY
LEGISLATOR, DEMOCRAT OR
REPUBLICAN, IN A RECESSION
THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH
LOCALLY AND IN THIS STATE AND
IN THIS COUNTRY TO TALK ABOUT
RAISING TAXES, SO IT WILL BE
VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO VOTE
FOR ANY TAX INCREASE.
HOWEVER, WE-- AGAIN I THINK WE
ARE BALANCING THIS BUDGET ON
THE BACKS OF PEOPLE WHO CAN'T
AFFORD--
>> Michael: YOU WOULDN'T VOTE
FOR AN INCREASE?
>> NO, I'M NOT SAYING THAT AT
ALL.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS, FIRST OF
ALL WE HAVE A 1,000-PAGE
DOCUMENT WHICH IS OUR BUDGET
THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH RIGHT
NOW.
IT WAS JUST RELEASED A COUPLE
DAYS AGO.
WE NEED TIME TO PERUSE AND GO
THROUGH IT.
I WORK ON THE INDEPENDENCE
PARTY CAUCUS.
I'M ALSO ENDORSED BY THE
INDEPENDENCE PARTY.
DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, RAY
SANTIROCCO, MYSELF AND OTHERS
ARE TALKING ABOUT A VERY, VERY
MODEST TAX INCREASE SO WE
DON'T HAVE TO, IN MY OPINION,
SHAFT THE POOR BECAUSE WE'RE
GOING THROUGH TOUGH FISCAL
TIMES.
>> Michael: WHAT IS A MODEST
INCREASE?
>> I THINK YOU MIGHT SEE SOME
LEGISLATORS ON BOTH SIDES COME
TOGETHER AROUND 3 OR 4%.
I THINK 5% WOULD BE AN
ABSOLUTE CEILING.
BUT AGAIN THAT'S GOING TO BE
UP TO BOTH SIDES TO DISCUSS
AND TALK ABOUT AND NEGOTIATE,
AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE THERE
YET.
>> Michael: I WOULD LIKE FOR
YOU TO JUMP IN ON THIS.
THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE HAS SAID
TIME AND AGAIN THAT WE ARE
GOING TO HURT, YOU KNOW, THE
ELDERLY WHO ARE IN THE HOMES;
WE'RE GOING TO HURT THE NEW
HOME BUYERS IF WE TRY AND
RAISE PROPERTY TAXES.
>> WELL, I THINK HE'S QUITE
CORRECT ABOUT THAT, AND THAT'S
ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I AT
LEAST WILL NOT SUPPORT A
PROPERTY TAX INCREASE AND I
WILL ENCOURAGE AS MANY OF MY
COLLEAGUES AS I CAN TO RESIST
A PROPERTY TAX INCREASE.
NOW CHRIS TALKED ABOUT THE
POSSIBILITY OF A MODEST TAX
INCREASE THREE, FOUR, 5%.
YOUR VIEWERS SHOULD UNDERSTAND
THAT IN ORDER TO FULLY FUND
ALL OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE
BEEN PROPOSED TO BE CUT, WE
WOULD HAVE TO SEE A 30%
INCREASE IN THE COUNTY
PROPERTY TAX LEVY, AND WE HAVE
TO VIEW THIS IN CONTEXT.
IF WE LIVED IN ONE OF THE MORE
PROGRESSIVE STATES, WHERE THEY
HAVE GOTTEN AWAY FROM THE OLD
1930s HIGH-TAX/HIGH-SPEND
MODEL, WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT
A DIFFERENT SITUATION.
BUT WE PAY, AS NEW YORKERS, WE
HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF PAYING
THE HIGHEST COMBINED STATE AND
LOCAL TAXES IN THE COUNTRY.
I'M NOT SURPRISED THAT THE
STATISTIC CHRIS SAYS ABOUT
THIS AREA BEING ONE OF THE
HIGHEST.
SO I THINK THE PROBLEM WE HAVE
IN NEW YORK IS THAT WE PAY--
NOT THAT WE PAY TOO LITTLE IN
TAXES BUT THAT WE ALREADY PAY
TOO MUCH.
AND I DON'T THINK THE BUDGET
SHOULD BE BALANCED ON THE
BACKS OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
THE TRULY VULNERABLE CITIZENS
OF OUR COMMUNITY, AND THOSE
ARE THE FOLKS WHO GO OUT TO
WORK EVERY DAY AND WHO COME
HOME, TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES,
TAKE CARE OF THEIR CHILDREN
AND ARE TOTALLY AT THE MERCY
OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT WHEN
IT COMES TO HOW MUCH THEY'LL
PAY IN TAXES.
>> Michael: LYNDA, PLEASE.
>> FIRST OF ALL, IT HAS BEEN
MY EXPERIENCE THAT, IF YOU
MAKE A CASE AND PRESENT GOOD
VALUE, TAXPAYERS-- NOBODY
LIKES A TAX INCREASE BUT THEY
WILL ACCEPT A TAX INCREASE.
THAT SAID, I AM-- I AM NOT IN
THEORY OPPOSED TO THE IDEA OF
A TAX INCREASE.
I NEED TO SEE HOW THE MONEY
WILL BE SPENT.
I'M ALSO VERY ANXIOUS TO SEE
THE RESULTS OF THE BLUE RIBBON
COMMISSION THAT'S LOOKING AT
THE WHOLE COUNTY BUDGET AND
FUNDING SCENARIO RIGHT NOW.
>> Michael: ARE THERE OTHER
PLACES, OTHER REVENUE SOURCES?
AND WHAT I'M THINKING OF IS
THE HOTEL MOTEL TAX.
THERE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SOME
$700,000 FOR A SOCCER STADIUM.
WE DON'T HAVE A SOCCER
STADIUM.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD
BE GOING INTO THE BUDGET THIS
YEAR?
>> THAT'S A POSSIBILITY, AND
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OTHERS.
LET ME JUST--
>> Michael: DO YOU AGREE WITH
THAT?
>> I THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE
NEED TO LOOK AT.
I MEAN, I WANT TO SEE THE CUTS
AND THE IMPACT OF THE CUTS
MINIMIZED NOTWITHSTANDING NO
TAX INCREASE.
SO, THEREFORE, WE NEED TO BE
DILIGENT IN GOING THROUGH THIS
BUDGET TO SEE WHERE WE MIGHT
SHIFT FUNDS FROM.
>> Michael: YOU WANTED TO
CONTINUE, LYNDA.
>> YOU NEED TO LET ME GO BACK
TO IT.
>> Michael: OKAY, RAY, JUST
REAL QUICK. I DIDN'T MEAN TO
INTERRUPT.
>> REAL QUICKLY.
WHERE I DIFFER WITH BILL IS A
MODEST TAX INCREASE IS
AFFORDABLE.
A 5% TAX INCREASE FOR A
$50,000 ASSESSED HOME IN THE
CITY, A MODEST HOME, IS 6
CENTS A DAY.
FOR A $350,000 HOUSE OUT IN
THE SUBURBS, IT'S 40 OR 42
CENTS A DAY.
ON THE INDUSTRIAL SIDE, OUR
BIGGEST TAXPAYERS, RG&E, THEY
HAVE ALMOST $3 MILLION A DAY
IN OPERATING INCOME.
IT WOULD BE LESS THAN $1,000.
SO I BELIEVE IT WILL NOT DRIVE
ANYBODY OUT OF--
>> I JUST WANT TO SAY WE ALSO
WANT MONROE COUNTY TO BE A
PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO
LIVE, AND IF SOME OF THESE
CUTS ARE HELD TO, NOBODY'S
GOING TO WANT TO LIVE HERE.
>> QUICKLY, I MUST SAY, I
THINK THIS IS SOMETHING NOBODY
WANTS TO TALK ABOUT, BUT WE
HAVE OUR SACRED COWS IN THIS
COUNTY AND THEY'RE CALLED
PUBLIC EMPLOYEES THAT WORK IN
THE CITY OF ROCHESTER, IN THE
VILLAGES, IN ALL THESE
DIFFERENT LAYERS OF
GOVERNMENT.
YOUR FORMER EMPLOYER, THE
"DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE," SAID
MANY YEARS AGO THAT IF YOU
COUNT ALL THE DIFFERENT
DISTRICTS AND LEVELS OF
GOVERNMENT, WE HAVE 753
DIFFERENT LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT
IN MONROE COUNTY.
THAT'S MORE THAN ONE LEVEL OF
GOVERNMENT FOR EVERY THOUSAND
PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTY.
WE HAVE WAY TOO MUCH
GOVERNMENT IN THIS COUNTY.
I WOULD RATHER SEE SOME PUBLIC
EMPLOYEE ROLLBACKS IN
EMPLOYMENT RATHER THAN, AGAIN,
HURTING THE MOST VULNERABLE
PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY,
LOW-INCOME PEOPLE.
AS BILL SAYS, MIDDLE-INCOME
PEOPLE AND HIGH-INCOME PEOPLE
PAY A LOT OF TAXES.
THEY WORK VERY HARD, TOO.
BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?
THE LOW-INCOME PEOPLE ARE THE
ONES THAT NEED TO BE PROTECTED
BY GOVERNMENT SOMETIMES.
AND WE'RE IN A CRISIS RIGHT
NOW.
THEY NEED TO BE LOOKED AFTER.
>> Michael: I JUST HAVE A
COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.
I'D LIKE TO THROW OUT THIS
QUESTION REAL QUICK.
WE'RE SEEING A BIG INCREASE IN
THE JAIL EXPENDITURE.
THAT'S $4 MILLION ACCORDING TO
THE BUDGET.
IS IT BECAUSE WE HAVE A NEW
ADDITION TO THE JAIL?
NEW PEOPLE HAVE TO STAFF IT?
I'M JUST GOING TO THROW THIS
OUT, MAYBE A YES OR A NO.
SHOULD WE BE DELAYING THE
OPENING OF THIS JAIL TO SAVE
MONEY THIS YEAR?
>> IN FACT THE BUDGET THIS
YEAR CALLS FOR A ROLLOUT, A
PHASE-IN OF THE OPENING OF THE
JAIL, WHICH IS TANTAMOUNT TO A
DELAY OF A SORT, IN
RECOGNITION OF THAT FACT THAT
IT'S EXPENSIVE.
>> Michael: HOW MUCH OF A
DELAY THEN?
>> I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT
SCHEDULE, BUT RATHER THAN
BEING ALL OPENED AT ONCE, IT'S
GOING TO BE PHASED IN OVER THE
COURSE OF A YEAR.
THE OPENING HAS ALREADY BEEN
DELAYED, AND THE ADDITIONAL
EXPENSE THAT WE HAVE SEEN ONCE
AGAIN COMES THROUGH THE FORM
OF AN UNFUNDED STATE MANDATE
WHICH SAYS YOU WILL HAVE THIS
NUMBER OF PERSONNEL IN YOUR
JAIL.
AGAIN THE ONLY THING YOU GET
TO DECIDE IS-- YOU DON'T GET
TO DECIDE IT.
WE GET TO DECIDE WHAT YOU
HAVE; YOU GET TO PAY FOR IT.
>> Michael: WE HAVE ABOUT A
MINUTE LEFT.
LYNDA?
>> THE JAIL WAS THE MOST
EXPENSIVE PUBLIC WORKS PROJECT
EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MONROE
COUNTY, AND IT'S NO SURPRISE
THAT IT'S GOING TO BE
EXPENSIVE TO STAFF.
THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN
PLANNING FOR THAT ALL ALONG.
>> Michael: ARE YOU OKAY WITH
THE DELAY?
>> YES.
>> Michael: YOU'RE OKAY WITH
THE DELAY?
>> YES AND NO.
I MEAN, I VOTED AGAINST THE
JAIL EXPANSION, BUT I WILL SAY
THAT WE NEED TO HAVE OUR JAIL
PERSONNEL SAFE.
THEY NEED TO BE IN A SAFE
ENVIRONMENT, AND WE HAVE
MASSIVE OVERCROWDING OF OUR
LOCAL PENAL INSTITUTIONS.
SO A PHASE-IN I THINK AT THIS
TIME IN A FISCAL CRISIS IS
MAYBE THE ONLY THING WE CAN
DO.
BUT SOME DAY WE'RE GOING TO
HAVE TO LOOK AT MAYBE OTHER
WAYS TO ADDRESS SOME LEVELS OF
CRIME THAN CONSTANTLY BUILDING
EXPENSIVE JAILS.
THEY REALLY DON'T CONTRIBUTE
TO THE COMMUNITY IN AN
ECONOMIC WAY.
>> I JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO
THE QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUE THAT
LYNDA MENTIONED.
I THINK THAT THE COUNTY
EXECUTIVE AND THE BUDGET THAT
WAS ACTUALLY PROPOSED FOUND A
WAY TO RESTORE FUNDING TO KEEP
THE PARKS OPEN DURING THE
WEEK, TO RESTORE FUNDING TO
KEEP THE MOST ESSENTIAL
LIBRARY SERVICES OPEN.
I THINK THAT GOES VERY FAR TO
THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN THE
COMMUNITY AND I THINK IT
FOLLOWS THE SORT OF
PHILOSOPHICAL GUIDANCE THAT I
GO INTO THIS PROCESS WITH,
WHICH IS THAT WE NEED TO
PRESERVE FIRST THOSE THINGS
THAT SERVE THE BROADEST
ELEMENTS OF THE COMMUNITIES.
>> Michael: I'M SORRY.
THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.
I APPRECIATE THE SPIRITED
CONVERSATION.
IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE THE
CONVERSATION, VISIT OUR WEB
SITE, www.wxxi.org/ntk.
WHILE YOU'RE THERE YOU CAN
TAKE PART IN OUR WEEKLY
INTERNET POLL.
FOR THE LATEST ON POLITICS AND
GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING COLUMNS
FROM WXXI NEWS REPORTERS, IT'S
nycitizens.org.

NOW IT'S TIME FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "THE BUSINESS
SECTION" WITH THE "THE DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."

(Music)
I'M HAPPY TO HAVE IN STUDIO
WITH US ELLEN ROSEN, EDITOR OF
THE BUSINESS SECTION FOR THE
"DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
ELLEN, BAUSCH & LOMB HAD A
ROUGH DAY ON WEDNESDAY ON WALL
STREET AND THEY CAME OUT WITH
A SORT OF REACTION.
WHAT WAS THAT REACTION?
>> WELL, THEY DID.
ABOUT THREE HOURS AFTER THE
MARKET CLOSED YESTERDAY, THEY
DECIDED THAT THEY WERE GOING
TO PREANNOUNCE THEIR EARNINGS,
WHICH ARE NOT DUE OUT UNTIL
NEXT THURSDAY.
BASICALLY THEY FELT THEY TOOK
ABOUT A 10% DIVE IN THEIR
STOCK PRICE YESTERDAY.
THE COMPANY REALLY FELT THAT
IT WAS BASED ON RUMORS THAT
THEIR PERFORMANCE FOR THE
QUARTER WAS NOT GOING TO BE
GOOD AND THEY WANTED TO PUT
THOSE RUMORS TO REST, AND THEY
CAME OUT AND SAID ACTUALLY
THEIR EARNINGS PER SHARE ARE
GOING TO BE ABOUT 10% HIGHER
THAN THE STREET ESTIMATE AND
THEIR SALES ARE ALSO UP ABOUT
10%.
NOW, THEY DIDN'T GIVE ANY MORE
DETAILS THAN THAT, AND WE
WON'T GET THOSE DETAILS UNTIL
THE ACTUAL EARNINGS COME OUT,
WHICH WILL BE NEXT THURSDAY
MORNING.
>> Michael: THE NEWSPAPER
REPORTED THAT THE UNIVERSITY
OF ROCHESTER MEDICAL CENTER IS
LOOKING TO GET MORE
INDEPENDENCE FROM THE U of R
PROPER.
WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO DO
THIS?
>> ACTUALLY, IT'S THE
UNIVERSITY THAT'S LOOKING TO
MAKE THE MEDICAL CENTER
INDEPENDENT.
THIS IS AN INITIATIVE STARTED
BY TOM JACKSON, THE PRESIDENT
OF THE UNIVERSITY OF
ROCHESTER.
IT'S A MODEL THAT'S BEEN
FOLLOWED AT SOME OTHER PLACES,
LIKE DUKE UNIVERSITY.
IT GIVES THE MEDICAL CENTER
MORE INDEPENDENCE TO MAKE
FINANCIAL DECISIONS, MAKE
PURCHASES, DO THE THINGS THEY
NEED TO DO.
IT ALSO PROTECTS THE
UNIVERSITY FROM THE LIABILITY
OF SOME OF THE KINDS OF THINGS
THAT MEDICAL CENTERS LIKE TO
DO, LIKE CLINICAL TRIALS AND
DRUG TESTING AND THINGS LIKE
THAT.
>> Michael: IS THERE A
DOWNSIDE TO THAT AT ALL, OR AT
THIS POINT, IT'S TOO EARLY TO
SAY?
>> IT'S TOO EARLY TO SAY
BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO DEPEND
ON WHAT MODEL THEY CHOOSE.
SOME STILL END UP REPORTING
SOMEWHAT TO THE UNIVERSITY.
SOME END UP WITH COMPLETELY
SEPARATE BOARDS, SO IT WILL
REALLY DEPEND ON HOW THEY GO.
I BELIEVE THAT JACKSON'S GOING
TO BE RAISING IT WITH THE
BOARD THIS WEEK OR NEXT WEEK--
THIS WEEK, I BELIEVE, WHEN
THEY'RE HERE, AND HE'S ALREADY
MENTIONED TO FACULTY SENATE SO
WE'LL BE HEARING MORE.
>> Michael: I WANT TO TALK A
LITTLE BIT ABOUT RETAIL.
J.C. PENNEY SAYS IT'S GOING TO
CLOSE ITS RETAIL OUTLET AT THE
IRONDEQUOIT MALL.
FIRST WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR
THE IRONDEQUOIT MALL?
>> IT'S ACTUALLY A GOOD THING
FOR THE IRONDEQUOIT MALL
BECAUSE THAT PENNEY'S STORE
HAS BEEN UNDERPERFORMING.
ONE OF THE ISSUES WITH
IRONDEQUOIT MALL IS THERE
HASN'T BEEN ENOUGH
DIFFERENTIATION AT THAT MALL
TO ATTRACT PEOPLE AWAY FROM
THE AREA'S OTHER MALLS.
IT HAD THE SAME STORES.
IT HAD THE SAME THINGS GOING
ON, AND YET IT HAD SOME
NEGATIVE PERCEPTIONS THAT
PEOPLE WERE NOT-- SO THERE
WASN'T ENOUGH REALLY TO MAKE
PEOPLE COME THERE UNLESS THEY
LIVED IN THE AREA.
SO BY J.C. PENNEY LEAVING AND
ACTUALLY THE PEOPLE THAT OWN
THE MALL BOUGHT THEIR LEASE
BECAUSE THEIR LEASE IS NOT UP
YET.
SO THEY CAN BRING IN SOME NEW
AND DIFFERENT TENANTS.
ONE THEY'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT
IS THIS BASS PRO SHOP AND SOME
OTHER THINGS.
THEY WANT TO BRING THEM IN,
GIVE THE MALL A DIFFERENT
LOOK, MAKE IT A REALLY
DIFFERENT PLACE.
SO IT COULD REALLY BE THE
BEGINNING OF A RESURGENCE.
>> Michael: I WANT TO TALK A
LITTLE BIT, TOO, ABOUT RETAIL
IN GENERAL.
I THINK IN TODAY'S PAPER, IN
THURSDAY'S PAPER, THERE WAS A
TALK ABOUT EASTVIEW TRYING TO
COMPETE WITH THE SYRACUSE
MALL, WHICH IS GOING TO BE A
MEGAMALL.
HOW IS RETAIL DOING IN
ROCHESTER GENERALLY SPEAKING?
WHAT DO WE KNOW?
>> I THINK RETAIL IN
ROCHESTER, WE DON'T HAVE ANY--
WE'RE COMING UP ON THE BIG
SEASON, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE
RETAIL IN ROCHESTER IS DOING
ABOUT AS WELL AS RETAIL IS
ANYWHERE, IF YOU LOOK.
WAL-MART SALES AREN'T UP AS
MUCH AS THEY'D LIKE.
OTHER PEOPLE'S SALES ARE DOWN.
IT'S JUST A TOUGH RETAIL
CLIMATE RIGHT NOW GIVEN THE
ECONOMY AND PEOPLE'S CONCERNS
ABOUT THEIR JOBS AND WHETHER
OR NOT THE COUNTRY'S GOING TO
WAR AND OTHER THINGS.
>> Michael: BANKRUPTCY FILINGS
IN WESTERN NEW YORK WERE UP
29% IN SEPTEMBER FROM A YEAR
AGO.
WHAT DOES THAT SAY?
AND TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE
ABOUT THE BANKRUPTCY SITUATION
IN WESTERN NEW YORK.
>> THE THING IS, WHILE THAT
STATISTIC'S INTERESTING, IT
DOESN'T REALLY SAY THAT MUCH
BECAUSE, ACCORDING TO EXPERTS,
YOU WILL GET AN OCCASIONAL
MONTH-TO-MONTH BLIP.
WHAT YOU REALLY GET A TRUER
PICTURE IS LOOKING
YEAR-TO-DATE.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST
NINE MONTHS OF 2002 AND
COMPARE THEM TO THE FIRST NINE
MONTHS OF 2001, BANKRUPTCIES
ARE REALLY UP ONLY ABOUT 3.5%,
WHICH YOUR AVERAGE ECONOMIST
WOULD SAY IS REALLY KIND OF
FLAT.
IT'S NOT REALLY A BIG BOON.
BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE
WORRIED IN THIS CURRENT
ECONOMY.
THE REAL ISSUE THAT'S DRIVING
IT IS CREDIT CARD DEBT.
THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE $2,500
IN CREDIT CARD DEBT FOR EVERY
MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD IN THE
COUNTRY, AND THAT'S AN
ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY AS
PEOPLE LOSE THEIR JOBS AND
THINGS BECOME MORE UNCERTAIN,
THAT DEBT DOESN'T GET PAID AND
THAT'S WHAT FORCES PEOPLE INTO
BANKRUPTCY.
>> Michael: THIS IS ACTUALLY
NOT BAD NEWS.
WE'RE DOING ALL RIGHT.
>> YEAH, WE'RE DOING OKAY.
WE'RE WATCHING IT BUT WE'RE
DOING OKAY.