2003 ELECTION PREVIEW -- 24 October 2002

>> Just ahead on "Need To Know," less than two weeks remain for
voters to decide who will occupy congressional seats on Capitol
Hill, legislative seats in Albany, and the governor's mansion.-
Tonight on "Need To Know," we hear from the voters on issues
important to New York State and from a panel of political
observers who talk about how the campaigns have responded.-
We'll have our weekly "The Business Section with the Democrat
and Chronicle."-
And we'll look at how the technology that shaped Rochester
influenced Edgar Degas, whose works are being shown in the
flower city.-
That's all next on "Need To Know."-
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Captioned by the National-
Captioning Institute-
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>> "Need To Know" covers politics and current events.-
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>> Through the support of viewers, "Need To Know" is made
possible.-
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>> Thank you for joining us.-
I'm Michael Caputo.-
Pundits across the nation say stories about the Washington,
D.C., sniper, the north Koreans, and the clash with Iraq are
clouding over the election.-
Yet New Yorkers are ready to vote people into office.-
They are facing large issues, issues that should have an impact
on your vote.-
The state will likely face a multibillion budget deficit in
2003.-
Some estimate as much as $10 billion.-
The state of education, especially in urban centers, remain
worries for many, and despite efforts to lower state an local
taxes, New York remains a tax increase to make ends meet.-
We talked with central and western New Yorkers about the issues
over the last few weeks.-
One question we asked -- how would you deal with the state
budget deficit, raise taxes or cut spending?-
-
>> I think a mix of both.-
Spending should be cut in some areas and taxes should be raised
in certain areas, but I don't think the burden should be placed
on the back of the middle class.-
I think the middle class carries a disproportionate share of
the tax burden.-
I think it should be distributed equal qualityly, tax cuts and
spending cuts, a combination of both.-
-
>> I'd cut spending.-
They take enough taxes out of us.-
We work hard for your money.-
-
>> Definitely cutting spending, not raising taxes.-
I mean, how high can you go?-
They only offer you so much per job.-
If somebody is working $6 an hour and they're getting taxed,
it's only bringing in $100 a week, $150 a week.-
We can't afford that.-
To continue our discussion in studio, our three learned guests,
Curt Smith, former speechwriter for the first bush presidency,
Sandra Frankel, co-chair of H. Carl McCall's campaign and
Brighton town supervisor, Larry Staub, the vice chairman of the
county Republican party.-
Thank you all for coming.-
You just heard the answers to our question about the state
budget deficit.-
My question to you folks is we have seemingly heard very lit
until the way of spefpks from the three gubernatorial
candidates on dealing with the deficit.-
Curt, why is that?-
-
>> I think a number of things have, in effect, usurped people's
attention, people focused on the sniper, people focused on the
terrorism, the Buffalo Bills, the world series, not necessarily
in that order.-
This gubernatorial campaign has not been the most scintillating
in the history of the man.-
It had a chance in the last 10 days to redeem that, but it's
not electrified the state and I think that's the reason.-
-
>> There was a time when a billion-dollar deficit, Larry, would
have killed the incumbent.-
Why is it not killing this incumbent?-
>> I think it's not hurting the governor because people are
seeing that he's trying to do as best he can under the
circumstances.-
He's got an economy that's coming out of a national recession
and New York after the 9/11 tragedy last September got a double
whammy on.-
That so, they're giving him some slack.-
I think in the next couple months, once the election is behind,
we'll see some things come out where the governor, you know,
deals with the deficit, and he socked away a lot of money
during the good times when a lot of people wanted to give it
away.-
I think it was something in the order of $2.6 billion.-
He said it was a rainy-day fund.-
Well, the rainy day has come, and it came at a time where he
was able to use that money and use it effectively.-
-
>> Sandy, why hasn't Carl McCall made thisish -- this an
issue?-
-
>> He's talked about the problems and the problems that the
Pataki administration has created for the people of New York.-
The fact of the matter is during the good times, the boom years
of the 1990's, the economy stagnated, really suffered here in
New York and especially in upstate New York.-
We would be the 50th state in the nation if we were our own
separate economy in upstate New York.-
So, the governor didn't have an economic plan, didn't stimulate
the economy to grow jobs, to grow business in a way that could
really have reenforced the coffers of state government.-
Spending has continued to rise.-
We have the highest -- one of the highest debt levels of any
state in the nation.-
Our credit rating in New York State is near the bottom with
Louisiana.-
That means that whenever we borrow and we borrow a lot in New
York State, interest costs are very high.-
Those types of costs, plus a late budget for 17-plus years,
means that local property taxpayers are paying more local --
state taxpayers are also paying more.-
-
>> You're shaking your head.-
-
>> George will in a column in "Newsweek" talked about governor
Pataki and Carl McCall.-
We have two parties, both left of center, neither one of which
is concerned about the state budget.-
If the governor was concerned, he would not have increased
spending, would not have gone to hospital workers and offered
their union, guaranteed them a $2 billion bonanza in the pay
raises.-
He never explained where that would come from.-
Carl McCall has been just as irresponsible.-
In one state, the empire state, you mentioned 29 congressmen.-
We used to have 46.-
That shows you the enormous demographic shift away from New
York.-
The reason is business doesn't think that we're having their
interests at heart.-
We are dominated by big labor and special interests, dominated
by taxes.-
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>> It's kind of funny listening to both curt and sandy talk
about this.-
Curt, you know, the governor did identify where that money
would come from for the hospital workers, from a hike in the
cigarette tax.-
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>> It's always some tax.-
-
>> That was the endorsement.-
A lot of people can't see there's at least some link there.-
A few years ago, people said we have to do something about the
healthcare workers because there's a shortage.-
Maybe this will help pt it's funny hearing about how Carl
McCall, you know, so baffled by things going on in upstate and
loss of jobs and industry when Carl McCall was given a fund by
the state legislature to bring jobs to upstate New York.-
What did he do with it?-
He sent a lot of jobs, invested a lot of money that sent jobs
out of state.-
So, I -- -
>> The reality is that the new investment program is using
state pension funds, and the comptroller has an absolute
fiduciary responsibility to invest those dollars wisely to
protect the retirement fund.-
We don't want to see our retirement fund in New York State end
up if a situation like the poor retirees of Enron.-
And the fact is that he has invested and has a plan to invest
more in New York State, but those investments have to be done
with businesses that are going to be solid.-
-
>> That tells me Carl McCall doesn't think New York State is a
good risk.-
-
>> Well, George pa tacky didn't help us because we lost 12,400
jobs here in Monroe county alone.-
We've lost over 100,000 manufacturing jobs during his tenure.-
George Pataki has not grown jobs or the economy.-
-
>> Let me break in for a second because Tom doll san know to
some degree has not given specifics when asked how would you
deal with the budget deficit.-
-
>> Right.-
-
>> And he has in the last debate, that seven-person debate,
golisano brought up scandal, the parole board.-
Should we be focusing on that, curt?-
>> If you like to win, you do.-
It's interesting, you talk about a risk here.-
Upstate New York in about 10 days is about to say to George
Pataki and Carl McCall, we think of you both as irrefutable
risks.-
There's a big poll out in "The New York Post," and the title
was "upstate aflame."-
That said it resents George Pataki running and Carl McCall
running.-
Carl McCall has run into a reprehensible campaign.-
They've expected golisano to run second or first.-
That is a play in both houses.-
That is not a question of being ne negative.-
All three candidates have been negative.-
That comes with the territory.-
Voters talking about not responding to negative ads are
hypocrites.-
If they didn't work, they wouldn't be used.-
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>> What do you think, Larry?-
Golisano talked about the parole board.-
Talk about this.-
-
>> He wants to prove mightily he's not beholden to anyone and
comes up with heeze screwball ideas, bringing up issues that
have been dismissed years and years ago.-
Bringing up goofy ideas like this free tuition thing for
college students.-
Where's that money going now?-
He hasn't explained that.-
What would you do?-
You'd have to raise taxes in every school district to pay for
that because the money is going to the local school districts
now.-
Where do you get the money to pay for that?-
He hasn't explained that.-
as far as cur's aseration about Golisano winning, that won't
happen either.-
The latest poll showed the governor well ahead in upstate New
York, well ahead -- he's gone up two points in New York City,
where he's ahead of -- -
>> He should.-
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>>> Well, you know what, curt?-
This is a state that is 5-3 Democrats.-
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>> I understand.-
And you know how Republicans win, Republicans with principles,
sad to say your candidate does not have, whether it be Ronald
Reagan in 1980 who won by landslides or Al D'Amato, they have
the Republican base, socially conservative Democrats, we'll
appeal to them and to moderate independents based upon our
values.-
Your candidate in essence has said forget that.-
I'm reneging on any promise I made in 1994 and 1998.-
Why wouldn't he be running well in upstate New York?-
We'll see how he runs.-
-
>> This isn't 1980 or 1984.-
Ronald Reagan, in fact, my political hero, coasted in those two
elections in New York State very narrowly in 1980 and handily
in 1984 because he was riding a national wave of -- -
>> At one point -- -
>> You know what?-
This is a much different state than then.-
-
>> The Republican party in essence, if you look at the
northeast, is almost ceasing to exist.-
It is dying incremently, yearly.-
It's no coincidence where we have this potpourri of me-too
Republicans, the Republican party is collapsing.-
Why are we outnumbered?-
-
>> However, we weren't 20 years ago.-
-
>> I would like to direct this to you, sandy.-
In upstate New York, the Republican party is running a adds, at
least on their web site, saying where's Carl McCall, where's
Carl McCall?-
Where is Carl McCall?-
-
>> He'll be here tomorrow.-
Carl McCall has been in upstate New York time and time again.-
And he has gotten media coverage when he's been here.-
He visits small commuventes, the larger cities in metropolitan
areas.-
That's a salacious statement.-
And the fact he's been here because he's talking about the
issues that matter.-
George Pataki has broken promise after promise, you're
absolutely right, curt.-
The fact is on healthcare -- -
>> Your capped date is jus as extreme.-
So, please.-
At least your candidate is honest about his left-wing
ideology.-
Pataki is not.-
-
>> Correct.-
He promised to deliver on healthcare.-
We have more people, the same number of people as when he took
office still without health insurance.-
We have people who are without jobs.-
We have people in this state who can't get an education because
they can't afford it.-
30% lower funds for education is what George Pataki wanted to
deliver to the students of this state.-
-
>> Do me a favor.-
I want you to watch.-
Matt Cummings talked to some people from Syracuse to Buffalo.-
Talk to him about some of the issues.-
One of the issues he raised was how do you fix the public
school system?-
Look at the answers, and then we'll come back.-
-
>> I just retired from teaching in the city.-
And I happen to know how good the teachers are.-
And I know that the students do the best they can.-
it's not working because they have such deficiencies when they
come in.-
They don't have the all-around support that they need.-
a lot of times they, oh, a lot of the parents are still kids.-
They haven't had what they needed.-
And it's just piling one thing on top of another.-
-
>> I think you have to look very carefully at why they're
underperforming and what the causes are and try to fix it.-
Sometimes we throw more money at problems and it doesn't
necessarily solve the problem.-
So, rather than say a definite, yeah, just throw home run money
at them, I think they ought to find out what the causes are and
fix those elements, not necessarily just throw more money at
the same old stuff all the time.-
-
>> Now, the governor has just started some commercials saying I
have increased money for education, I have invested more money
in education.-
Carl McCall has talked -- or at least in the beginning of his
campaign -- talked about putting more money into education, $8
billion.-
But we haven't seen this become an issue.-
Why is that?-
-
>> Education is actually up there as the top issue along with
jobs and the economy.-
People do care about education.-
The governor has taken credit for the moneys that the state
legislature has forced in an increase above what the governor
would have proposed for education.-
He wanted the funds to be 30% less than what was approved, and
we've got to insure all our schools have the money they need.-
We can't have empty schools that don't have computers, that
don't have the books that they need, that are crumbling.-
-
>> Larry, please.-
-
>> Sandy, how long have you been involved in New York
politics?-
That's what happens every year.-
The governor buts out a budget for education, the legislature
increases it.-
It's part of the Albany game and it's built in.-
What you have here is a governor who's very focused on
education, who has provided record amounts of assistance for
education, who has given the districts, as I said, record
amount of money, and it's up to the local districts to take
that money and produce results with it.-
I think that you also look at what the governor's done with the
star program by taking the amount of property tax that people
pay for education, which is horrendous in New York State, and
try to give them a break on that.-
What did the state legislature Democrats do?-
They department take the hole-harmless clause that the governor
wanted in there, so school districts just took it and started
to increase taxes even more when the state was cutting their
tax on the star program.-
So -- -
>> Let me -- why dote you get the last word.-
I have like 10 seconds.-
-
>> You saw more wisdom in those two people on camera than you
see in the political parties.-
The issue isn't money.-
We spend more money.-
The issue isn't class size.-
It was higher in the 1950's and 1960's.-
Far superior public education today.-
Both parties are owned by public education units.-
-
>> That's all the time we have with our guests.-
I hope this discussion spurs you on to more discussion.-
Log on to www.wxxi.org/ntk.-
While you're there, take part in our weekly Internet poll for
the latest on politics and government including columns from
WXXI reporters.-

NOW IT'S TIME FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "THE BUSINESS
SECTION" WITH THE "THE DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."

(Music)

>> Back again with us is Ellen Rosen, editor of "The Business
Section with the Democrat and Chronicle."-
Ellen, earnings came out today.-
Any surprises?-
-
>> Kodak preannounced last week what they expected their
earnings to be, they would be much better than they expected.-
But today they said they'll cut 1,300 to 1,700 jobs worldwide.-
Their worldwide employment is about 75,000.-
They won't say how local employment might be affected.-
Local employment is about 23,300, I think was the last number.-
What's different about these job cuts, in 2001, when they cut 2
6,500 jobs, those were across the board.-
These will be targeted in underperforming tuitions of the
company, which is why we're seeing the results we're seeing
from Kodak, the continued cost-cutting, which is why revenues
are up today.-
>> So, we won't know what it means locally at least for a
while.-
-
>> There would be more details come fourth quarter.-
-
>> But they are targeted this time.-
Is that a trend in the business community?-
-
>> Mm-hmm.-
-
>> I've seen it across the board, you know, everybody shares
the pain.-
-
>> It depends on what you're trying to do.-
If you're just trying to rapidly cut costs, you do it across
the board.-
If you're trying to improve long-term business operations, you
look at areas where your markets aren't performing or you feel
you have areas that you can cut, trim, do things more
efficiently.-
They've moved to this efficiency model and this is part of that
move, pushing decisionmaking down, deciding within the
divisions where you can do things better, more efficiently,
with fewer people and different kind of techniques, save time,
money, and energy.-
-
>> The numbers aren't a surprise.-
We knew what was coming, that the earnings would be up.-
-
>> They're good.-
They're about 50% above where they were a year ago.-
So, they're definitely good numbers.-
Kodak's stock was taking a rise in the last couple of weeks,
and so right now, you know, they're looking pretty pozztive.-
Film sales continue to decline and that's always the worry.-
-
>> Where are they looking the best in serms of sales?-
-
>> Definitely overseas markets.-
In terms of film sales, it's one thing, but right now Kodak is
doing well in health imaging and other areas.-
Film sales, the roll of film we buy at the store, that
continues to drop as people move toward digital and travel less
since September 11.-
-
>> Xerox also came out with numbers this week.-
I guess it was a revenue drop for Xerox.-
What does that mean?-
-
>> They have a loss in revenue mostly because of businesses it
exited.-
I think it was a 66% drop in revenues.-
50% of that was due to exiting the ink jet printing business
and some was from developing markets.-
But Xerox was feeling pretty positive about where they were
yesterday.-
It's their second consecutive quarter of profit, and Anne
Mulcahy, the C.E.O., said yesterday she expects all of 2002 to
be profitable, the first time for the company since 1999.-
-
>> There were other legal challenges that linger for Xerox.-
Where does that come into play?-
Are most of those things behind them at this point?-
-
>> It's hard to say.-
A few weeks ago we had news that the Connecticut U.S. Attorney
would be investigating.-
We don't know where that stands now.-
But Anne Mulcahy said none of the analysts asked about the
accounting issue.-
-
>> Why do you think that is?-
-
>> I don't know.-
I guess they're moving on to other things and looking to the
future.-
-
>> Tell us what's coming up this weekend in the business sec.-
-
>> We have an installment of our builders and dreamers series,
which looks at people in the companies that are developing our
communities, and this looks at la chase construction and Wayne
la chase.-
-
>> He's one of the big ones.-
-
>> One of the big ones in the New York-Connecticut region.-
-
>> Thank you very much for joining us, Ellen.-
-
>> Thank you.-
-
>> Finally tonight, the memorial art gallery opened what
curators called one of its most ambitious exhibitions two weeks
ago.-
It features the works of Edgar Degas.-
And Brenda Tremblay reports the same technology that
transformed Rochester helped Degas with his artistic approach.-
-
>> When Edgar Degas woke up on a summer morning in 1881, he was
most likely preoccupied with her, the little dancer, the
sculpture he was about to show to the public for the first
time.-
He couldn't have imagined the stir she'd cause.-
Today, she is as familiar to us as "the thinker" or the Statue
of Liberty.-
But in the 19th century, she didn't fit the mold.-
The memorial art gallery and the visual studies workshop in
Rochester are exploring how photography may have shaped her and
all of the art of Edgar Degas.-
Bill Johnson of the visual studies workshop is collecting
photographs of Paris taken during Degas' lifetime.-
He says before the invention of the camera, images tended to be
static.-
In this drawing of the cathedral Notre Dame, for example, the
artist idealized the great church, leaving out messy details
like horses, people, and pigeons.-
-
>> Photography didn't do that.-
It accepted what was out there.-
So, for example, like here's -- it might be hard to see this,
but, like here's a dog in the corner of this -- in the door of
this building.-
Here's a guy fixing the gutters on the roof or a knife grinder
in the corner.-
Well, all that stuff, because the photograph would just take
anything that was there, right, all that stuff is available
suddenly.-
-
>> Johnson says Degas grew up influenced by all the details
captured in photographs, much like children today free throw up
influenced by images they see on tv.-
Memorial art gallery director Grant Holcomb said Degas was a
great traditionalist.-
-
>> He was a revolutionary and interested in new technology, and
the camera was part of it.-
If you look at the pain, and pastels, the way he crops figures,
composes a composition, shows us he was studying that
snapshot-like effect the ra introduced into the visual
consciousness of the public.-
>> The artist himself was an amateur photographer.-
About 44 of his prints and negatives survived, and some show us
he used the camera to capture a split second of motion.-
He'd study for a painting or pastel.-
Grant Holcomb says the artist also studied these early
stop-action photographs by Edward mybridge.-
-
>> You see the sense of energy in these rearing horses.-
There's a terrific one of a horse with a rider, and you have
this even abstraction of the horse's head to convey the sense
of movement out of the frame, out of that little bronze.-
But the jockey himself is the balance to that motion, so it's a
wonderful contrast, projection ahead and stability on the
horse.-
-
>> It seems fitting that the work of an artist so influenced by
the motion and spontaneity he saw in photographs to come here
to Rochester, a city transformed by the camera and all of its
possibilities.-
And at the center of the exhibition stands the little dancer,
cast in bronze, wearing a tutu.-
When she was first unveiled at an impressionist show in 1881,
she was ridiculed for being too ugly.-
Critics said she wasn't womanly enough, she was too realistic.-
But Grant Holcomb says that in her we can see the future of
20th century art.-
-
>> What I like about this is his in-your-face radicalism as an
artist.-
Quite beloved today, but quite radical in his day.-
-
>> Thanks, Brenda.-
Degas' work will be at the memorial art gallery until January
5.-
A companion exhibit, photographs of Paris, will be on view
across the street at the visual studies workshop from October
26 to January 5.-