>>
Elissa Marra: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW," A KEY PLAYER IN
CRIME SCENES CALLS IT QUITS AFTER A DISTINGUISHED CAREER. MEDICAL
EXAMINER NICHOLAS FORBES IS RETIRING. WE'LL TALK ABOUT HIS MOST
FAMOUS CASES AND A CAREER THAT HAS LASTED TWO DECADES. ALSO,
THE REDISTRICTING PLAN THAT PITS LAWMAKER AGAINST LAWMAKER CAUSES
ONE CONGRESSMAN TO PULL OUT. WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT. ELLEN ROSEN
IS HERE FOR THIS WEEK'S BUSINESS NEWS AND A GROUP OF WOMEN WHO
LOVE TO MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH: IT'S ALL AHEAD ON "NEED TO KNOW."
>>
Kenneth Hyland, Monroe County Assistant District Attorney: IT
IS AN IMPORTANT ROLE THEY PLAY BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO DETERMINE
THE CAUSE OF DEATH AND SOMETIMES THEY DO PROVIDE CRUCIAL TESTIMONY
FOR US IN PROVING A HOMICIDE.
>>
THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH NEWS
PROGRAM. "NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC
AFFAIRS, COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS, EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.
>>
"NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS JONES FOUNDATION,
BY DORSCHEL LEXUS, AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
>>
Elissa Marra: THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. I'M ELISSA MARRA. GARY
WALKER HAS THE NIGHT OFF. TONIGHT WE'RE GOING TO BE PROFILING
AN IMPORTANT PUBLIC SERVANT. IN A FEW MINUTES WE'LL HEAR FROM
MONROE COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER NICHOLAS FORBES, WHO IS RETIRING.
BUT ANOTHER IMPORTANT PUBLIC FIGURE IS ALSO STEPPING DOWN AND
MAKING HEADLINES WITH THAT DECISION. IT IS JOHN LaFALCE, DEMOCRAT
CONGRESSMAN FROM WESTERN NEW YORK, WHO WAS ABOUT TO FIND HIMSELF
IN A PRIMARY FOR THE NEW 28th CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. FOLLOWING
THIS STORY CLOSELY IS WXXI AM'S BOB SMITH, HOST OF 1370 CONNECTION
AND TAKER OF MANY PHONE CALLS ON THIS TOPIC. BOB, NOW THE CONGRESSMAN
DIDN'T SAY EXACTLY THAT IT WAS THE REDISTRICTING PLAN THAT IS
CAUSING HIM TO RETIRE ACTUALLY, NOT RUN AGAIN, BUT WHAT DO YOU
THINK IS GOING ON? WHY IS HE DOING THIS?
>>
Bob Smith: GOOD QUESTION. HE HAD SAID THAT HE DIDN'T LIKE BEING
IN THE POSITION OF HAVING TO RUN AGAINST A RESPECTED COLLEAGUE.
HE WASN'T COMFORTABLE WITH THE PROSPECT OF A PRIMARY AGAINST
LOUISE SLAUGHTER OF ROCHESTER, AND HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FORCED
INTO SUCH A PRIMARY AS A RESULT OF THE REDISTRICTING PLAN THAT
THE STATE LEGISLATURE FINALLY APPROVED, WHICH HAS ITS OWN UNRESOLVED
PROBLEMS IN OTHER AREAS, WHICH WE CAN TALK ABOUT LATER IF THERE'S
TIME. BUT HE DID NOT GET MUCH MORE SPECIFIC THAN THAT, OTHER
THAN TO SAY HE HAD OTHER THINGS HE WANTED TO DO. AND THIS WAS
SOMEWHAT UNEXPECTED. HE'S NOT BY ANY MEANS OLD BY CONGRESSIONAL
STANDARDS. HE'S ONLY 62 AND, ALTHOUGH HE HAS 28 YEARS OF SENIORITY,
HAD THE DEMOCRATS TAKEN THE HOUSE THIS TIME AROUND, WHICH THE
LATEST GALLUP POLL INDICATES THEY MIGHT VERY WELL DO, HE WOULD
HAVE BECOME CHAIRMAN OF THE FINANCE AND BANKING COMMITTEE IN
THE NEXT CONGRESS. LOUISE SLAUGHTER IS ALSO A VERY POWERFUL
MEMBER OF CONGRESS, A SENIOR AND RISING MEMBER OF THE RULES
COMMITTEE, BUT SHE DOESN'T HAVE QUITE AS MUCH SENIORITY. SHE'S
ONLY BEEN IN THE HOUSE 16 YEARS AS OPPOSED TO Mr. LaFALCE'S
28.
>>
Elissa Marra: AND THERE IS SOME TALK NOW THAT SOME DEMOCRATS
FROM THE BUFFALO AREA, ERIE COUNTY, MIGHT STEP UP TO PRIMARY
HER ANYWAY.
>>
Bob Smith: RIGHT. THERE IS A STATE SENATOR, RELATIVELY RECENT
ARRIVAL ON THE POLITICAL SCENE, Mr. BROWN, WHO IS CERTAINLY
NOT WELL KNOWN AT ALL IN THE ROCHESTER METROPOLITAN AREA AND
IS NOT ONE OF THE MOST WELL-KNOWN POLITICIANS EVEN IN THE BUFFALO/NIAGARA
FALLS AREA, SO IT MAY BE A BIT OF AN UPHILL BATTLE. HE MAY BE
JUST LOOKING TO HAVE HIS NAME TALKED ABOUT TO GET GREATER RECOGNITION
FOR FUTURE PLANS.
>>
Elissa Marra: AND NOT REALLY TOO MUCH IN THE WAY OF REPUBLICANS
COMING FORWARD JUST YET FOR THE NOVEMBER ELECTION, RIGHT?
>>
Bob Smith: THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THERE IS NO CERTAIN REPUBLICAN
CHALLENGER EMERGING FROM EITHER END OF THE DISTRICT. IT'S A
VERY BIPOLAR DISTRICT: CITY OF BUFFALO, CITY OF ROCHESTER, CONNECTED
BY A SMALL STRIP OF LAND. SOME HAVE LIKENED IT TO A MELTED BARBELL,
SOME TO AN EARPHONE. BUT IT REALLY HAS NOT BROUGHT FORWARD A
REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER, AN IDENTIFIABLE REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER
YET, AND IT'S ANYBODY'S GUESS WHO THAT PERSON ULTIMATELY WILL
BE, ALTHOUGH CERTAINLY THERE WILL BE SOMEBODY ON THAT LINE.
>>
Elissa Marra: THE PLAN ITSELF WHICH CREATED THIS DISTRICT HAS
CLEARED SOME HURDLES, THOUGH, RIGHT? BUT YOU THINK THAT THERE'S
STILL SOME PROBLEMS ON THE HORIZON? MAYBE YOU COULD EXPLAIN
YOUR VIEWS ON THAT.
>>
Bob Smith: WE'RE STILL TRYING TO FIND OUT WHETHER OR NOT THE
STATE LEGISLATURE IS ABOUT TO REPAIR WHAT MAY BE A SIGNIFICANT
FLAW, POSSIBLY EVEN A KILLER FLAW IF IT'S TAKEN TO COURT, AND
THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TOWN OF BRIGHTON IN THE MIDDLE
OF ALL OF THIS: AREAS OF BRIGHTON THAT WOULD HAVE TWO MEMBERS
OF CONGRESS WITH THE WAY THE MAP WAS DRAWN; AREAS OF BRIGHTON,
ABOUT A THIRD TO A HALF OF THE TOWN, THAT CURRENTLY HAS NO MEMBER
OF CONGRESS AT ALL. THAT HAS TO BE FIXED. I CHECKED WITH SOME
STATE LEGISLATORS YESTERDAY. THEY WERE NOT AWARE OF IT ACTUALLY
HAVING BEEN FIXED YET AND A FINAL DEAL DONE. THE STATE LEGISLATURE
HAS TO SIGN OFF ON IT; SO DOES THE GOVERNOR TO MAKE THAT NECESSARY
CHANGE OR ELSE ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO COULD GO TO COURT AND BLOCK
THE WHOLE THING.
>>
Elissa Marra: OKAY. AND WE'LL BE FOLLOWING THE STORY -- VERY,
VERY INTERESTING AS IT TURNED OUT THIS YEAR -- UNRAVELING. BOB,
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. NOW BE SURE TO LISTEN TO WXXI AM 1370
OR LOG ON TO wxxi.org FOR THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS ON REDISTRICTING
AND OTHER STORIES. NOW WE ARE GOING TO DEPART SLIGHTLY FROM
POLITICS TO DISCUSS A MAN WHO SOME LOCAL OFFICIALS DESCRIBE
AS NATIONALLY KNOWN -- HE IS -- AND A CONSUMMATE PROFESSIONAL.
Dr. NICHOLAS FORBES IS RETIRING AS MONROE COUNTY'S CHIEF MEDICAL
EXAMINER. HE'S BEEN THE MEDICAL EXAMINER HERE SINCE THE 1970s.
SO WHAT'S HE BEEN DOING FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS OR SO? ACCORDING
TO THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS, THE M.E. IS
CHARGED WITH INVESTIGATION AND EXAMINATION OF PEOPLE WHO DIE
A SUDDEN, UNEXPECTED, OR VIOLENT DEATH. THE M.E. OFTEN VISITS
THE CRIME SCENE, CONDUCTS AUTOPSIES OF COURSE AND EXAMINES MEDICAL
HISTORY, LAB REPORTS AND EVIDENCE TO MAKE A REPORT, USUALLY
TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY. IN MONROE COUNTY, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER
IS APPOINTED AND OFTEN ASSISTS WITH UNATTENDED DEATHS IN OTHER
COUNTIES BESIDES MONROE. NICHOLAS FORBES IS WELL KNOWN THROUGHOUT
THE REGION AND AROUND THIS COUNTRY. HIS LONG HISTORY AS CHIEF
MEDICAL EXAMINER OF MONROE COUNTY HAS MADE HIM A QUIET BUT IMPORTANT
FIGURE IN SOME OF THE BIGGEST CRIMES OF THE PAST 20 YEARS. "NEED
TO KNOW's" MATT CUMMINGS TALKED WITH SOME OF Dr. FORBES' COLLEAGUES.
>>
Matt Cummings: LIKE OTHER PROSECUTORS FROM THE MONROE COUNTY
DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, KEN HYLAND UNDERSTANDS THE VALUE
OF MEDICAL EXAMINERS' WORK. WHEN IN A COURTROOM PUSHING FOR
A CONVICTION, HYLAND SAYS THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S TESTIMONY IS
CRUCIAL.
>>
WELL, LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY: IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. YOU
HAVE TO SHOW THAT IT WAS A HOMICIDE, THAT THE DEFENDANT CAUSED
THE DEATH OF THE DECEASED. AND YOU GENERALLY DO THAT THROUGH
THE TESTIMONY OF THE MEDICAL EXAMINER. SO YOU HAVE TO ELIMINATE
ALL THOSE OTHER POSSIBILITIES: NATURAL CAUSES, SUICIDE. SO WITHOUT
THEIR TESTIMONY, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, THE CASE WOULDN'T EVEN GET
TO THE JURY. THE JUDGE WOULD DISMISS YOUR CASE BECAUSE YOU WERE
UNABLE TO SHOW THAT IT WAS A HOMICIDE.
>>
Matt Cummings: MAKING THEIR CASE REQUIRES GATHERING AND EXAMINING
ALL FORENSIC EVIDENCE OF A POTENTIAL MURDER VICTIM. ACCORDING
TO HYLAND, THERE IS NO ONE BETTER AT IT THAN Dr. NICHOLAS FORBES,
CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER FOR MONROE COUNTY FOR THE PAST 23 YEARS.
>>
HE'S A VERY HIGHLY EDUCATED MAN, EXTREMELY EXPERIENCED IN HIS
FIELD, WELL RESPECTED NATIONWIDE. HE HAS A GREAT DEAL OF INTEGRITY
IN THE SENSE THAT HE WON'T SHADE HIS TESTIMONY ONE WAY OR THE
OTHER. HE DOESN'T SHADE IT TO FAVOR THE PROSECUTION, AND HE
DOESN'T SHADE IT TO FAVOR THE DEFENSE. AS HOWARD COSELL SAYS,
HE TELLS IT LIKE IT IS. FREQUENTLY, HE'S NOT EVEN CROSS-EXAMINED
AS TO HIS FINDINGS.
>>
Matt Cummings: NICHOLAS FORBES LEFT HIS NATIVE SOUTH AFRICA
IN 1972 TO BEGIN A CAREER IN FORENSIC PATHOLOGY THAT SPANNED
THREE DECADES. HE FIRST CAME TO ROCHESTER IN 1973 TO WORK AS
AN INTERN AND PATHOLOGY RESIDENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER.
HE SERVED AS ASSISTANT MEDICAL EXAMINER HERE IN 1975 AND 1976.
FORBES THEN TOOK A JOB AS A FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST IN OKLAHOMA,
BUT HE RETURNED TO ROCHESTER TWO YEARS LATER WHEN HE WAS HIRED
AS CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, A POSITION HE HAS HELD EVER SINCE.
FORBES' CAREER HAS SEEN HIM INVOLVED IN SOME OF ROCHESTER'S
MOST NOTORIOUS MURDER CASES. HE WAS CITED BY THEN-COUNTY EXECUTIVE
THOMAS FREY IN 1990 FOR HIS ROLE IN HELPING TO SOLVE THE ARTHUR
SHAWCROSS SERIAL KILLINGS. MORE RECENTLY, FORBES HAS PROVIDED
CRITICAL TESTIMONY IN THE CONVICTIONS OF JOSE SANTIAGO AND ANGEL
MATEO IN SEPARATE MURDER CASES. WHILE FORBES' TESTIMONY PLAYS
A KEY ROLE IN A LOCAL MURDER INVESTIGATION, HYLAND SAYS THE
JOB CAN TAKE AN EMOTIONAL TOLL.
>>
AND I'M SURE Dr. FORBES IS THE SAME WAY. I'M SURE HE HAS TO
DISTANCE HIMSELF TO A CERTAIN EXTENT FROM THE EMOTIONS OF WHAT
HE'S DOING, BUT THERE ARE THOSE CASES -- THE SANTIAGO CASE WAS
ONE, WHERE YOU SEE A TWO-YEAR-OLD EXECUTED, AND I KNOW Dr. FORBES
HAS TESTIFIED IN A NUMBER OF CHILD ABUSE CASES, SMALL BABIES
THAT WERE KILLED BY THEIR PARENTS OR SOME OTHER CAREGIVER --
THAT I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU CANNOT HELP BUT BE AFFECTED
EMOTIONALLY BY THOSE CASES.
>>
Matt Cummings: DEALING WITH THE INEVITABLE EMOTIONAL STRESS
OF HIS WORK IS SOMETHING DEPUTY CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER THOMAS
SMITH SAYS FORBES HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT DOING.
>>
HE HAS AN OUTSIDE LIFE THAT HE KEEPS SEPARATE FROM HIS WORK
IN THE OFFICE. HE'S AN AVID JOGGER AND IN LATER YEARS HAS BECOME
A...NOT QUITE A BODYBUILDER BUT A HEALTH -- INTERESTED IN THAT
SORT OF THING. AND I THINK THAT'S A TOOL HE USES ALSO FOR PERSONAL
PLEASURE.
>>
Matt Cummings: DAILY MEDIA REPORTS, REALITY TV AND OTHER ENTERTAINMENT
PROGRAMMING FEATURING HOMICIDES HAVE CAPTURED THE IMAGINATION
OF MANY AMERICANS. HOWEVER, HYLAND SAYS THE FICTITIOUS IS FAR
FROM REALITY.
>>
BUT I THINK THEY HAVE GLAMORIZED MURDER, YOU KNOW, TO A CERTAIN
EXTENT AND I THINK IT'S JUST HUMAN NATURE AND I THINK THAT TELEVISION
PRODUCERS AND MOVIE PRODUCERS ARE JUST TAPPING INTO THAT DESIRE,
THAT TITILLATION, WHATEVER THE PEOPLE HAVE, WITH HOMICIDES.
AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE HAVE BEEN "QUINCY" AND THESE OTHER SHOWS
THAT DO MAKE IT SEEM GLAMOROUS. HONESTLY I -- IF MOST PEOPLE
HAD TO SIT THROUGH AN AUTOPSY, I DON'T THINK THEY COULD STOMACH
IT, YOU KNOW. AND IT TAKES A CERTAIN STRENGTH OF CHARACTER TO
BE ABLE TO DO THAT, I THINK, TO GO IN EVERY DAY AND KNOW "THAT'S
WHAT I'M GOING TO DO TODAY; I'M GOING TO DO ANOTHER AUTOPSY,"
YOU KNOW, OR MAYBE THREE OR FOUR. AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE
SITUATIONS THAT THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH -- BURN VICTIMS, BODIES
FOUND FLOATING IN THE GENESEE RIVER -- THAT'S NOT SOMETHING
THAT I WOULD LOOK FORWARD TO, BUT THAT'S THEIR JOB AND THEY
DON'T -- Dr. FORBES AND THE REST OF HIS STAFF, THEY DON'T FLINCH
FROM IT.
(Music)
>>
Elissa Marra: AND Dr. NICHOLAS FORBES, THANK YOU FOR COMING
IN. YOU'RE CLOSING IN ON YOUR LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS IN OFFICE.
>>
YES, I AM.
>>
Elissa Marra: SO I'M SURE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TALKING TO YOU
ABOUT WHAT'S BEEN A VERY DISTINGUISHED CAREER AND, AS WE SAID
EARLIER, A LITTLE BIT OF A QUIET CAREER. THE MEDICAL EXAMINER
IS USUALLY THE LAST WORD BUT NOT USUALLY THE CELEBRITY FACE
IN THE CASE. TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT IN TERMS OF WHAT IT'S
LIKE TO BE SO IMPORTANT YET SO BEHIND THE SCENES. WHAT'S IT
BEEN LIKE FOR YOU HERE?
>>
WELL, NEW YORK, AS YOU KNOW, HAS VERY STRONG CONFIDENTIALITY
RULES AND REGULATIONS, SO I HAVE ALWAYS FELT IT VERY IMPORTANT
TO STAY BACK TO A CERTAIN EXTENT AND NOT TALK TOO MUCH ABOUT
CASES, AND THE MEDIA HAVE REALLY RESPECTED THAT IN THIS TOWN
AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
>>
Elissa Marra: EVEN WITH THE THINGS THAT WE DO SEE ON TELEVISION,
WE REALLY DO SEE A LOT OF MURDER. WE SEE A LOT OF DEATH ON TELEVISION.
WE SEE BODIES ON TELEVISION LIKE WE NEVER HAVE BEFORE. WE HEAR
ABOUT THE M.E. ON TELEVISION. HOW IS IT PORTRAYED IN ENTERTAINMENT
TELEVISION? IS IT PRETTY ACCURATE?
>>
IT'S GOTTEN BETTER, BUT WHAT YOU SEE ON TV DOESN'T REALLY REFLECT
THE DAILY REALITY OF A MEDICAL EXAMINER'S LIFE. THERE'S EMPHASIS
ON HOMICIDES. NOW, WHEN I CAME TO THIS COMMUNITY, IT'S TRUE:
A BAD YEAR YOU GET 25 HOMICIDES, AND THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF MONROE
COUNTY HAVE STAYED PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. BUT WITH THE DRUG EXPLOSION
IN THE '80s AND THE APPEARANCE OF CRACK COCAINE AND DRUG TURF
WARS, EVENTUALLY WE WERE GETTING WELL OVER 60 HOMICIDES A YEAR,
AND THAT WAS REALLY A TREMENDOUS CASELOAD BROUGHT IN. BUT YET
THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR CASES ARE NOT HOMICIDAL. THEY'RE ALL
THE OTHER CASES THAT YOU HAVE TO FILTER OUT.
>>
Elissa Marra: THEY'RE UNATTENDED?
>>
UNATTENDED, UNEXPECTED, POSSIBLY UNNATURAL DEATHS, AND IF THOSE
DEATHS ARE REPORTED TO US, WE MUST INVESTIGATE THEM. AND MY
OFFICE AND VERY GOOD STAFF INVESTIGATE WELL OVER 2,000 DEATHS
EVERY YEAR, JUST A HANDFUL OF HOMICIDES OUT OF ALL OF THOSE.
>>
Elissa Marra: RIGHT. YOU WENT TO SCHOOL HERE, DID YOUR RESIDENCY
HERE, RIGHT?
>>
I WENT TO MEDICAL SCHOOL IN CAPE TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA, AND CAME
HERE AND DID MY RESIDENCY IN THE FIELD OF PATHOLOGY, WHICH IS
A BASIC SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINE WHICH ALL FORENSIC PATHOLOGISTS
MUST MASTER BEFORE GOING INTO A SUBSPECIALTY DISCIPLINE.
>> Elissa Marra: AND THAT WAS AT THE U OF R?
>> THAT WAS AT THE U OF R, YES.
>>
Elissa Marra: OKAY. DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU WANTED THIS -- HOW
DID YOU KNOW YOU WANTED THIS TO BE YOUR LIFE'S WORK? DID YOU
ALWAYS WANT A CAREER IN DEATH?
>>
NOT AT ALL. I WAS INTERESTED IN LAB MEDICINE. I HAD FAMILY WHO
WERE IN MEDICINE AND IN LAB, LABORATORY MEDICINE. BUT MY PREDECESSOR
HERE, A FELLOW BY THE NAME OF JACK EVANS, RECRUITED ME, AS HE
RECRUITED MY DEPUTY. HE WAS QUITE A WELL-KNOWN PATHOLOGIST,
AGAIN AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND HE HAD DEALT WITH THE ATTICA PRISON
RIOT DEATHS --
>>
Elissa Marra: WHICH WAS CONTROVERSIAL DECISIONS FROM THIS MEDICAL
EXAMINER'S OFFICE, RIGHT?
>> VERY MUCH SO. THEY WERE FROM WYOMING COUNTY, FROM ATTICA,
BUT WE HANDLED MOST OF THOSE. THAT WAS BEFORE I GOT TO THIS
COUNTRY.
>>
Elissa Marra: OKAY. SO THERE'S A HISTORY OF THAT KIND OF RECRUITMENT?
HOW DID HE CONVINCE YOU? DID YOU NOT WANT TO COME OR --
>>
WELL, HE -- AS I DO, HE HAD A PROFESSORIAL ROLE AT THE MEDICAL
SCHOOL, AS I STILL DO TO THIS DAY, AND HE LIKED TO RECRUIT FELLOWS
FROM THE DEPARTMENT. AND HE TAPPED ME ON THE SHOULDER ONE DAY
AND SAID, "I THINK YOU MAY HAVE THE RIGHT TEMPERAMENT FOR THIS
KIND OF WORK. COME TRY IT OUT." I DID AND NEVER LOOKED BACK.
>>
Elissa Marra: WHAT IS THE RIGHT TEMPERAMENT FOR THIS KIND OF
WORK? >> I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DISTANCE YOURSELF, AS
KEN HYLAND MENTIONED, FROM THE WORK BECAUSE EACH CASE IS A CHALLENGE
UNTO ITSELF, IS INHERENTLY INTERESTING, YET YOU HAVE TO SEPARATE
YOURSELF FROM THE EMOTIONALITY OF VERY DISTRESSFUL CASES.
>>
Elissa Marra: SUCH AS THINGS LIKE CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE, SHAKEN
BABY SITUATIONS, THINGS THAT ARE ALSO DIFFICULT TO PROVE, RIGHT,
OR DIFFICULT TO FIND?
>>
THEY CAN BE VERY SUBTLE AND NUANCED CASES, AND YES, IT'S TRUE;
I DON'T KNOW ANY PATHOLOGIST WHO ARE NOT AFFECTED BY BABY DEATHS,
WHETHER NATURAL, WHETHER SUDDEN INFANT DEATH SYNDROME, WHETHER
ACCIDENTAL OR WHETHER, IN RARE BUT INCREASING NUMBERS OF DIAGNOSED
CASES, HOMICIDAL.
>>
Elissa Marra: WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THE ARTHUR SHAWCROSS CASE
BECAUSE YOU WERE, IN MANY WAYS, AT THE CENTER OF THAT CASE.
CAPTAIN JOHNSON FROM THE ROCHESTER POLICE DEPARTMENT SAID THAT
WHEN THAT INVESTIGATION WAS ONGOING, YOU SAID YOU SAW MORE STRANGULATIONS,
IN THAT TIME PERIOD, OF WOMEN THAN IN YOUR ENTIRE CAREER.
>>
AND MOST PATHOLOGISTS GET TO SEE IN A PROFESSIONAL LIFETIME,
YES, I THINK THAT'S TRUE. AND STRANGULATION DEATHS CAN BE VERY
SUBTLE. THESE BODIES THAT SHAWCROSS LEFT LYING AROUND THE COUNTY
WERE IN VARIOUS STAGES OF DETERIORATION, SO THAT MADE IT A VERY
DIFFICULT CHALLENGE, BOTH FOR IDENTIFICATION AND FOR ESTABLISHING
CAUSE OF DEATH.
>>
Elissa Marra: AND YOU HAD TO DO SOME UNUSUAL THINGS, RIGHT?
IN ONE CASE, I THINK THERE WERE JUST BONES THERE, AND WHAT DID
YOU DO? YOU HAD TO FIND SOME DIFFERENT KINDS OF PROFESSIONAL
EXPERTS...
>>
WELL, WHEN WE HAVE BONES, WE CALL IN THE ANTHROPOLOGIST, THE
FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST. FORTUNATELY, WE HAVE THE SERVICES OF
A NATIONALLY KNOWN FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST, SO HE HELPED US
OUT WITH THAT ASPECT OF THE CASES.
>>
Elissa Marra: WAS THAT A SCARY TIME FOR YOU? I KNOW IT WAS STRESSFUL
FOR THE POLICE. I KNOW THE PUBLIC WAS RILED UP SOMEWHAT. WHAT
WAS GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND?
>>
THE PUBLIC WERE LOOKING FOR ANSWERS. WE BEGAN TO BE SURE THAT
THERE WAS A CONTINUITY TO THE CASES. AND THEN THEY GOT MORE
FREQUENT AND BUILT UP TO A CRESCENDO AT THE END. AND YES, IT
WAS EXHILARATING IN A PERVERSE WAY AND VERY CHALLENGING.
>>
Elissa Marra: ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT -- AS YOU LOOK
BACK ON YOUR CAREER HERE IN THE ROCHESTER AREA, WHAT WAS YOUR
FAVORITE THING ABOUT BEING MEDICAL EXAMINER? WE DON'T THINK
OF THAT JOB AS HAVING HIGH POINTS, BUT WHAT WAS YOUR FAVORITE
THING ABOUT YOUR WORK?
>>
I THINK IF YOU LOOK BACK AND YOU LOOK AT SINGULAR CASES, THE
ONES THAT STICK IN ONE'S MIND AS A PATHOLOGIST ARE NOT THE ONES
THAT RECEIVE A LOT OF MEDIA ATTENTION.
>>
Elissa Marra: SUCH AS?
>>
THEY ARE THE CASES THAT PRESENT MEDICAL DIAGNOSTIC CHALLENGES,
AND WHEN YOU RESOLVE THOSE CASES AND TIE ALL THE PIECES TOGETHER,
THERE'S IMMENSE SATISFACTION IN THAT.
>>
Elissa Marra: ALL RIGHT. AND WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE FACT
THAT OFTENTIMES YOUR TESTIMONY WAS NOT CHALLENGED IN COURT.
WERE YOU ALWAYS VERY CONFIDENT? WAS THERE EVER A TIME IN A CRIME
CASE, LET'S SAY, WHEN YOU HAD TO GIVE TESTIMONY WHEN YOU MAYBE
JUST WEREN'T SURE OR WHEN YOU DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU HAD PUT THE
PIECES TOGETHER? WAS YOUR CONFIDENCE EVER SHAKEN?
>>
NOT REALLY. ONE ALWAYS DID THE MOST PROFESSIONAL JOB THAT ONE
COULD AND WAS PREPARED TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, AND I THINK
A TRUE PROFESSIONAL, IF HE DOESN'T KNOW THE ANSWER, WOULD BE
VERY HAPPY TO ADMIT THAT. AND I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TREATED WITH
THE UTMOST COURTESY AND PROFESSIONAL RESPECT BY MEMBERS OF THE
BAR.
>> Elissa Marra: YOUR LEAST FAVORITE THING ABOUT THIS POSITION?
ANYTHING YOU DON'T WANT TO DO ANYMORE?
>>
IN TERMS OF BEING A MEDICAL EXAMINER?
>>
Elissa Marra: YES.
>>
I COULD HAPPILY CONTINUE. I THINK THE TIME IS RIGHT FOR ME TO
RETIRE RIGHT NOW.
>>
Elissa Marra: WHAT MAKES YOU SAY THAT?
>>
I STILL ENJOY IT AND I HAVE ALWAYS FELT THAT ONE SHOULD RETIRE
AT THE TOP OF ONE'S GAME AND WHILE ONE IS STILL ENERGETIC.
>>
Elissa Marra: YOU MUST HAVE SEEN SOME CHANGES WITH THINGS LIKE
THE DEATH PENALTY CASE OVER THE YEARS. DID THAT MAKE YOUR JOB
MORE BURDENSOME, KNOWING THAT YOU WERE HANDLING VICTIMS WHOSE
DEATH MIGHT CAUSE THE DEATH OF SOMEONE ELSE?
>>
I HOPE THAT WE BROUGHT THE SAME LEVEL OF PROFESSIONALISM TO
THE INVESTIGATION AND DOCUMENTATION OF EVERY CASE, NO MATTER
WHAT THE CIVIL OR CRIMINAL JURISDICTION OR OUTCOME MIGHT BE.
>>
Elissa Marra: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU ARE GOING BACK TO SOUTH AFRICA
AND YOU'RE GOING RIGHT AWAY. YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO A VERY
DIFFERENT PLACE THAN YOU LEFT? WOULD YOU SAY SO?
>>
YES, I LEFT SOUTH AFRICA IN THE EARLY '70s WHEN APARTHEID WAS
IN FULL CRY. IT WAS A RATHER NASTY PLACE, A VERY COMPELLING
PLACE. I DIDN'T REALLY GO BACK UNTIL AFTER THE POLITICAL CHANGE
IN THE EARLY '90s.
>>
Elissa Marra: AND YOUR FAMILY IS THERE NOW?
>> I STILL HAVE A LOT OF FAMILY THERE, RIGHT.
>>
Elissa Marra: OKAY. WELL, Dr. NICHOLAS FORBES, WE WISH YOU WELL.
CONGRATULATIONS ON A LONG AND DISTINGUISHED CAREER. AND THANK
YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.
>>
I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>>
Elissa Marra: THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE NOW. FOR MORE INFORMATION
ON THE MONROE COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE AND THE WORK
THEY DO, YOU CAN LOG ON TO OUR WEB SITE AT wxxi.org/ntk. WHILE
YOU ARE THERE ON THE WEB, YOU CAN ALSO TAKE PART IN OUR WEEKLY
INTERNET POLL. AND OF COURSE FOR THE LATEST ON REDISTRICTING,
POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT, IT'S Www.NYcitizens.org.
NOW
IT'S TIME FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF "THE BUSINESS
SECTION" WITH THE "THE
DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
(Music)
JOINING US NOW IN STUDIO IS ELLEN ROSEN, EDITOR OF THE BUSINESS
SECTION OF THE "DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE" FOR THIS WEEK'S "BUSINESS
SECTION." ELLEN, WORLDCOM TOOK EVERYTHING APART YESTERDAY WITH
THE ANNOUNCEMENT AND THERE WAS A STORY IN THURSDAY'S "DEMOCRAT
AND CHRONICLE." IN THAT STORY, THE WOMEN THAT WERE INTERVIEWED
SEEMED TO BE LOSING A LITTLE BIT OF FAITH, ONE OF THEM SAYING
SHE'S MAD AT THE MARKET; THE OTHER ONE SAYING SHE'S GOING TO
GET VERY CONSERVATIVE NOW. SO HOW IS THIS NEWS AFFECTING LOCAL
PEOPLE?
>> Ellen Rosen: PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF MIXED EMOTIONS. FIRST OF
ALL, IT WAS ANOTHER -- WE HEARD FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE, "IT'S
ANOTHER ACCOUNTING SCANDAL INVOLVING ARTHUR ANDERSON." IN SOME
WAY, THEY'RE ALMOST BECOMING USED TO IT, WHICH IS KIND OF, YOU
KNOW, INTERESTING. HAD IT BEEN A DIFFERENT KIND OF SCANDAL OR
SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON... BUT THIS KIND OF THING, PEOPLE ARE
SORT OF GETTING USED TO. THEN THERE'S THIS WHOLE ISSUE THAT
THIS IS SORT OF WHAT YOU SEE, KIND OF THE POST-EXUBERANT TIMES,
A PERIOD OF EXUBERANCE. NO ONE REALLY CARED WHAT THESE COMPANIES
WERE DOING AS LONG AS EVERYONE WAS MAKING MONEY, WHICH THEY
WERE THROUGH THE '90s. NOW THEY'RE NOT AND SO PEOPLE ARE LOOKING
MORE CLOSELY.
>> Elissa Marra: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT, THAT PEOPLE ARE USED
TO IT OR MAYBE A LITTLE BIT DESENSITIZED, DOES THAT MAYBE AFFECT
THEIR INVESTING HABITS? THE STORY SAID THERE'S MONEY ON THE
SIDELINES RIGHT NOW.
>>
Ellen Rosen: YEAH, I THINK PEOPLE ARE NOT EXACTLY SURE WHAT
TO DO WITH THEIR MONEY. I THINK PEOPLE HAD GOTTEN USED TO THE
MARKET, THE TREMENDOUS GAINS THAT THE MARKETS HAD MADE IN THE
1990s AND PEOPLE ARE NOT QUITE READY TO ADJUST TO THE FACT THAT
THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN, PARTICULARLY PEOPLE THAT WERE
HEAVILY INVESTED IN TECHNOLOGY STOCKS, THAT THAT'S NOT GOING
TO COME BACK. THE MARKET IS NOT GOING TO DIE, NOT GOING TO CRASH,
BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO COME BACK TO THE LEVELS IT WAS AT.
>>
Elissa Marra: NOW, PRESIDENT BUSH ADDRESSED THIS QUITE A BIT
DIFFERENTLY THAN HE INITIALLY ADDRESSED THE ENRON SITUATION,
WHICH MADE LIGHT OF HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH CHAIRMAN LEIGH AND
WHATNOT. YESTERDAY, RIGHT AWAY, HE CAME OUT VERY STRONGLY WITH
LANGUAGE. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING ON THERE? IS IT GOING TO
BE A CAMPAIGN PERHAPS OR POLITICAL ISSUE?
>>
Ellen Rosen: WELL, THAT'S POSSIBLE, BUT I THINK AS PRESIDENT
OF THIS COUNTRY, HE HAS TO BE WORRIED ABOUT THE STABILITY OF
WALL STREET AND THE STABILITY OF THE MARKET AND THE STABILITY
OF THE ECONOMY. SO HE NEEDS TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT THERE'S
SOMEBODY WATCHING. I THINK HE WAS PROBABLY TRYING TO HEAD OFF
A RUN AT THE MARKETS WITH PEOPLE DUMPING STOCKS, THINGS LIKE
THAT, THAT REALLY COULD HAVE CAUSED HAVOC AND TRY TO LET PEOPLE
KNOW THAT SOMEONE IS IN CHARGE AND WE'LL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF
IT.
>> Elissa Marra: MANY INVESTORS ARE SIMPLY SAVING FOR RETIREMENT
AND THEY'RE DOING IT WITH THESE KINDS OF STOCKS. IS IT PRETTY
CLEAR NOW, AS YOU SAY, THAT PEOPLE BECOME USED TO THESE THINGS
HAPPENING, THAT THERE'S NOT TOO MUCH THAT THEY CAN COUNT ON,
OR ARE THESE REALLY, IN YOUR OPINION, ISOLATED INCIDENTS AND
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE DOING BUSINESS THE RIGHT
WAY?
>>
Ellen Rosen: WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE DOING BUSINESS
THE RIGHT WAY. WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE IS
THE PEOPLE THAT ARE EMPLOYED BY THESE COMPANIES HAD A LOT OF
THEIR MONEY TIED UP IN 401K's OF THEIR COMPANIES, AND PARTICULARLY
GLOBAL CROSSING, PEOPLE SAW THEIR 401K's AND THEIR RETIREMENT
PLANS BASICALLY DECIMATED. SO THERE'S THAT, BUT I THINK THERE'S
A LOT OF COMPANIES OUT THERE THAT ARE DOING BUSINESS, SOLID
BUSINESS, WHO HAVE SOLID ACCOUNTING PRACTICES, AND WHAT ADVISORS
ARE TELLING PEOPLE THAT IF YOU HAVE DIVERSIFIED, WATCHED YOUR
PORTFOLIO, NOT ALL IN STOCKS -- THEY'RE RECOMMENDING PEOPLE
MAY WANT TO GET INTO SOME MORE STABLE INVESTMENTS LIKE BONDS
AND SOME OTHER THINGS, LONG-TERM THINGS THAT PEOPLE CAN STILL
SAVE SOMETHING.
>>
Elissa Marra: OKAY. LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BIOTECHNOLOGY,
SWITCH CHANNELS A LITTLE BIT. SOMETHING COMING UP IN THE NEWSPAPER
THAT YOU HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE U.S. ARMY?
>>
Ellen Rosen: WE HAVE A STORY IN SUNDAY'S PAPER BY MICHAEL WENTZEL
THAT LOOKS AT A LOCAL BIOTECH COMPANY THAT SAYS IT'S DEVELOPING
A TECHNOLOGY THAT SHOULD PROVIDE AN EASY AND INEXPENSIVE WAY
TO DIAGNOSE EVERY KIND OF INFECTION FROM STREP THROAT ALL THE
WAY TO ANTHRAX. IF THAT'S TRUE AND THEY CAN GET IT TO MARKET
IN TIME, BEFORE ANY OF THEIR COMPETITORS, IT COULD BE QUITE
A BOOM FOR THEM.
>>
Elissa Marra: AND THAT WOULD PROBABLY HAVE IMPLICATIONS OTHER
THAN JUST MILITARY, RIGHT?
>>
Ellen Rosen: OF COURSE. IT'S A DEVICE ABOUT THE SIZE OF A PALM
PILOT AND SO IT COULD BE USED EVERYWHERE FROM A DOCTOR'S OFFICE
-- IT REQUIRES NO WAITING TIME, NO LAB CULTURES... ALL SORTS
OF THINGS. IT'S REALLY KIND OF AN INTERESTING TECHNOLOGY, REVOLUTIONARY
TECHNOLOGY.
>>
Elissa Marra: HOW DID THE U.S. ARMY COME TO THIS DEAL?
>>
Ellen Rosen: WELL, THIS COMPANY HAS BEEN SECRETIVE ABOUT WHAT
THEY HAVE BEEN UP TO FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS SO WE HAD
TO PIECE THAT TOGETHER, BUT THEY HAVE BEEN WATCHING THIS COMPANY
TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND OBVIOUSLY WITH ANTHRAX IMPLICATIONS
AND OTHER THINGS, THAT THEY CAN BE DIAGNOSED QUICKLY OUT ON
THE BATTLEFIELD, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT THE ARMY WOULD
BE INTERESTED IN.
>>
Elissa Marra: OKAY. AND LET'S JUST TOUCH QUICKLY ON ONE MORE
STORY THAT WAS IN TODAY'S PAPER, IN THURSDAY'S PAPER, ABOUT
BAUSCH & LOMB. WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE? IT'S NOT GOOD NEWS.
>>
Ellen Rosen: NO, IT'S NOT GOOD NEWS AT ALL. THEY WERE FOUND
TO BE INFRINGING ON A PATENT OF A COMPETITOR IN PARTS OF THE
DEVELOPMENT OF THEIR PURE VISION LENS, WHICH IS ONE OF THEIR
FASTEST GROWING PRODUCTS, THEIR EXTENDED-WEAR LENS AND REALLY
WHERE BAUSCH & LOMB SAW THE FUTURE OF ITS LENS PRODUCTION. THOSE
LENSES ARE STILL PRODUCED HERE. FOR HOW LONG, WITH OR WITHOUT
THIS DECISION, IS ANYBODY'S GUESS. BUT THE SHORT-TERM IMPLICATIONS,
OBVIOUSLY BAUSCH & LOMB WILL APPEAL, BUT APPEALING THIS KIND
OF THING CAN BE VERY DIFFICULT.
>>
Elissa Marra: THEY MAY NEED TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE THEN?
>>
Ellen Rosen: THEY MAY NEED TO. I DON'T KNOW. IT WILL DEPEND
ON HOW QUICKLY THEY CAN GET A STAY OF THIS ORDER, WHETHER THEY
CAN CONTINUE PRODUCTION. RIGHT NOW THEY CANNOT PRODUCE OR SELL
THESE IN THE UNITED STATES. NOW, THEY STILL CAN SELL OVERSEAS.
THIS JUST AFFECTS THEIR U.S. MARKET, AND THERE'S QUITE A MARKET
FOR CONTACT LENSES OVERSEAS.
>> Elissa Marra: ALL RIGHT, GREAT. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR
TIME, ELLEN. ELLEN ROSEN FROM THE "DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE.
UP
NEXT, WE HAVE A LOCAL COMEDY TROUPE WHOSE NAME SAYS IT ALL.
JOY PARKER WENT BEHIND THE SCENES THIS WEEK WITH ESTROFEST.
>>
YOU'RE LISTENING TO WPMS-FM... (Laughter)
>>
WHERE EVERY 28 SONGS WE GET EMOTIONAL. (Laughter)
>>
TAKING A LOOK AT YOUR WPMS-FM WEATHER, IT'S BRIGHT AND SUNNY
THIS AFTERNOON, COLD AND APATHETIC TONIGHT, AND DARK AND MISERABLE
TOMORROW. DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT ASKING FOR THAT BACKRUB, BUDDY!
(Laughter)
>>
ESTROFEST IS A SKETCH COMEDY TROUPE. WE HAPPEN TO BE FIVE WOMEN,
HENCE THE NAME. BUT THE GOAL IS JUST TO MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH. THERE'S
NO GENDER INVOLVEMENT OF THE GOAL OF OUR JOKES OR WHAT WE WRITE.
BUT WE WRITE EVERYTHING, PRODUCE EVERYTHING, DO OUR OWN COSTUMES,
SETS... WE GET A LITTLE HELP WITH OUR VIDEO BECAUSE WHILE WE'RE
CHANGING OUR COSTUMES, WE HAVE A PROFESSIONAL VIDEO SHOWING
AS WELL. SO IT'S JUST A WHOLE SMORGASBORD OF HA, HA, HA.
>> IT SOUNDS LIKE A FUN, SIMPLE IDEA, RIGHT? "YEAH, LET'S PUT
TOGETHER A COMEDY TROUPE." BUT IT WAS ASTONISHING, REALLY. I
MEAN, I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF WORK, BUT I HAD ABSOLUTELY
NO IDEA. THE LEVEL OF TIME COMMITMENT, DEDICATION, WRITING TIME
ALONE...
>>
HEY, HEY! CHECK IT OUT! CHOCOHOLIC MOM GIVES BIRTH TO SUGAR-COATED
BABY. YOU'RE GOING TO TURN INTO A TABLOID... (Indecipherable
dialogue)
>>
OH, MY GOD! OH!
>>
WE HAVE BEEN TOGETHER FIVE NIGHTS IN A ROW UNTIL MIDNIGHT, EASILY,
WORKING. IT'S INCREDIBLE REALLY.
>>
ESTROFEST WAS FOUNDED IN 1997. ALLISON ROBERTS HAD BEEN PERFORMING
IN "JOEY AND MARIA'S COMEDY WEDDING," WITH TWO OTHER ACTRESS,
ADELE FICO AND FRIEDA SCHNEIDER. AND SHE WAS DRIVING DOWN THE
STREET ONE DAY IN FAIRPORT, NEW YORK, AND SHE SAW TWO WOMEN
WALKING DOWN THE STREET LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY, AND JUST SOMETHING
WENT OFF IN HER THAT SAID, "YOU KNOW WHAT? WOMEN LAUGHING TOGETHER,
THAT'S WONDERFUL. A COMEDY TROUPE! WHY NOT?" MOST OF US HAVE
OUR GREATEST CREATIVITY AT 4 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. WE DON'T
KNOW WHAT IT IS. WE'RE NOT CRAZY INSOMNIACS OR ANYTHING, BUT
WE'LL WAKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND HAVE OUR BEST IDEA,
WHETHER IT'S A VIDEO OR AN AD PARODY OR A MUSICAL NUMBER OR
WHATEVER. IT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE THIS MAGICAL 4 O'CLOCK IN THE
MORNING THAT WE RUN TO OUR COMPUTERS. ONE BIG COUP FOR ESTROFEST
THIS YEAR IS WE ARE ONE OF ONLY NINE INTERNATIONAL TROUPES TO
BE ACCEPTED INTO THE TORONTO THEATRE FRINGE FESTIVAL, WHICH
IS AN INTERNATIONAL THEATRE FESTIVAL THAT PLAYS IN BIG CITIES
ALL OVER THE WORLD WHERE THEATER IS ACCESSIBLE AND AVAILABLE.
WE WERE CHOSEN OUT OF MORE THAN 100 INTERNATIONAL TROUPES THAT
APPLIED. THEY ONLY CHOSE NINE. NEW ZEALAND, AUSTRALIA, NEW YORK,
LONDON AND ROCHESTER ARE THE INTERNATIONAL CITIES THAT ARE GOING
TO BE REPRESENTED IN TORONTO IN JULY. SO WE'RE REALLY EXCITED
ABOUT THAT. WHO KNOWS WHO WILL BE IN THE AUDIENCE?
(Applause)
>>>> Elissa Marra: AND AS SHE SAID, ESTROFEST WILL PLAY
THE FRINGE FESTIVAL THIS SUMMER FROM JULY 5th THROUGH JULY 11th,
AND THEY WILL OPEN THEIR FOURTH SEASON IN THE WINTER OF 2003.
DON'T FORGET, YOU CAN READ MORE ABOUT THIS PROGRAM ON OUR WEB
SITE. JUST LOG ON TO wxxi.org/ntk.
AND THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR TONIGHT'S SHOW. THANKS FOR
YOUR TIME. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.
(Music)