(Music)
>> Elissa: JUST AHEAD ON "NEED
TO KNOW," CAN ALL 18 MONROE
COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICTS MERGE
INTO ONE AND DO IT SUCCESSFULLY?
ROCHESTER MAYOR WILLIAM JOHNSON
WANTS TO FIND OUT, AND THAT'S
ENOUGH TO REIGNITE AN OLD DEBATE
AMONG LEGISLATORS, EDUCATORS,
PARENTS AND STUDENTS.
ALSO DAVID TYLER JOINS US FROM
THE "DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE" FOR
THIS WEEK'S BUSINESS SEGMENT,
AND WE CELEBRATE A MILESTONE FOR
THE EASTMAN WIND ENSEMBLE.
BUT FIRST SCHOOL CONSOLIDATION.
IT'S COMING UP NEXT ON "NEED TO
KNOW."
>> I THINK THE GREATEST ISSUE IS
THE REMOVAL OF THE ABILITY TO
MAKE THOSE DECISIONS AT THE
LEVEL OF THE LOCAL SCHOOL
DISTRICT.
>> THIS IS "NEED TO KNOW," THE
ROCHESTER AREA'S ONLY IN-DEPTH
NEWS PROGRAM.
"NEED TO KNOW" IS A PRODUCTION
OF WXXI NEWS AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS
COVERING ISSUES, POLITICS,
EDUCATION AND CURRENT EVENTS.
>> "NEED TO KNOW" IS MADE
POSSIBLE BY THE DAISY MARQUIS
JONES FOUNDATION, BY DORSCHEL
LEXUS AND THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF
VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
(Music)
>> Elissa: THANK YOU FOR
JOINING US.
I'M ELISSA MARRA.
GARY WALKER HAS THE WEEK OFF.
AFTER THE CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT'S
LATEST BUDGET PROBLEMS AND LOW
STATE TEST SCORES FROM CITY
STUDENTS, MAYOR WILLIAM JOHNSON
USED HIS ANNUAL STATE OF THE
CITY ADDRESS TO REVIVE THE ISSUE
OF CONSOLIDATING ALL OF MONROE
COUNTY'S SCHOOLS INTO ONE
DISTRICT.
HE MAINTAINS THE MOVE WILL SAVE
THE DISTRICTS MONEY BY REDUCING
DUPLICATION OF STAFF POSITIONS
AND SERVICES.
PROPONENTS OF CONSOLIDATION
AGREE AND SAY IT WILL SAVE
TAXPAYER DOLLARS AND PROVIDE
MORE EQUAL EDUCATIONAL
OPPORTUNITIES FOR CHILDREN
ACROSS THE COUNTY.
HOWEVER, STUDIES CONDUCTED IN
THE 1980s AND '90s BY THE CENTER
FOR GOVERNMENTAL RESEARCH SHOW
LIMITED COST SAVINGS FROM
MERGING DISTRICTS.
OPPONENTS SAY CONSOLIDATION
THREATENS LOCAL COMMUNITY
CONTROL OVER HOW SCHOOL
DISTRICTS ARE RUN.
THEY ALSO BELIEVE SCHOOLS WILL
LOSE THEIR IDENTITY WITHIN A
MEGADISTRICT AND SUBURBAN
STUDENT PERFORMANCE COULD
SUFFER.
TONIGHT WE HAVE A COUNTY
LEGISLATOR, THE ROCHESTER
TEACHERS' ASSOCIATION AND A
MEMBER OF THE CITY SCHOOL
DISTRICT'S BOARD OF EDUCATION,
ALL HERE TO DISCUSS IF AND HOW
WE SHOULD CONSOLIDATE OUR
SCHOOLS.
BUT FIRST, "NEED TO KNOW'S" MATT
CUMMINGS MET WITH CITY AND
SUBURBAN EDUCATION LEADERS TO
FIND OUT WHAT CONSOLIDATION
WOULD MEAN FOR THEIR DISTRICTS.
>> COMMUNITY LEADERS WITH THE
DISTRICT TO ADDRESS THE
STRUCTURAL PROBLEM WHICH IMPEDES
THIS PROGRESS, AND WE WILL
ENCOURAGE THE GOVERNMENT
LEGISLATURE TO REVIEW THE
CURRENT DEPENDENT STATUS OF THE
STATE'S LARGEST CITIES AND THEIR
SCHOOL DISTRICT TO DETERMINE IF
A NEW SYSTEM IS WARRANTED.
>> Matt: THAT WAS ROCHESTER
MAYOR WILLIAM JOHNSON EARLIER
THIS MONTH, CALLING FOR AN OPEN
DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE
COUNTYWIDE SCHOOL CONSOLIDATION.
IT'S AN ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN
DEBATED HERE SINCE THE 1960s.
THEN, AS NOW, IT REMAINS A
HOT-BUTTON TOPIC WITH MANY
ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST.
>> BUT I THINK THE FIRST
QUESTION THAT YOU HAVE TO ASK IS
WHAT DO YOU INTEND TO ACHIEVE BY
CONSOLIDATION?
IF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS
SAVING MONEY, THEN I THINK THAT
THAT'S A LOT LESS INTERESTING
THAN IF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
IS IMPROVING EDUCATIONAL
OPPORTUNITY FOR THE POOREST
CHILDREN IN THE METROPOLITAN
AREA.
>> Matt: ROBERT BROWN HAS SERVED
THE LAST FOUR YEARS ON THE
ROCHESTER CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT'S
BOARD OF EDUCATION.
HE SAYS THE NEED TO CONSIDER
CONSOLIDATION LIES WITH LOCAL
DEMOGRAPHICS AND GEOGRAPHY.
>> THIS IS ONE OF THE WEALTHIER
AREAS IN THE COUNTRY, TAKEN AS A
STANDARD METROPOLITAN AREA.
BUT WE HAVE MANAGED TO PUT ALL
OF THE POOR PEOPLE AND MOST OF
THE PEOPLE OF COLOR IN ONE VERY
SMALL PLACE, IN THE GEOGRAPHIC
CONFINES OF THE CITY OF
ROCHESTER.
AND I THINK YOU HAVE TO ASK
YOURSELF WHETHER THERE IS A
SYSTEMIC PROBLEM, WHETHER IT'S
INTENTIONAL OR NOT, THAT RESULTS
IN THAT KIND OF SEGREGATION.
IF THAT'S THE CASE, YOU NEED TO
CONSIDER WHETHER DOING SOME KIND
OF POLITICALLY EXPENSIVE
REORGANIZATION WOULD SOLVE THE
PROBLEM.
>> Matt: BROWN DOES NOT SEE
CONSOLIDATION AS A PANACEA FOR
THE CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT'S ILLS.
HE BELIEVES THE DISTRICT CAN
PROVIDE A QUALITY EDUCATION TO
ITS STUDENTS THAT IS ON PAR WITH
ANY SUBURBAN SCHOOL DISTRICT.
HE NOTES HIS TWO CHILDREN ARE
CITY DISTRICT GRADUATES AND HAVE
GONE ON TO THE CLEVELAND
INSTITUTE OF MUSIC AND N.Y.U.
STRESSING THE DIVERSITY THE CITY
DISTRICT OFFERS IS ONE OF ITS
STRENGTHS, BROWN DOESN'T BELIEVE
JUST BECAUSE A SCHOOL SYSTEM HAS
MANY POOR CHILDREN ENROLED THAT
IT CAN'T BE SUCCESSFUL.
HE SAYS THE TRUE PROBLEM FOR
MANY STUDENTS IS AT HOME.
>> I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK WAY
BEYOND THE CONSOLIDATION OF
SCHOOLS, BECAUSE IT'S MY OPINION
THAT THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM IS
A PARENTING PROBLEM.
IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF SCHOOL
RESOURCES.
NOW, I THINK THAT ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS
DONE IS TO ADVOCATE THE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR PROVIDING THE
SUPPORT IN LIEU OF EFFECTIVE
PARENTING THAT IS NECESSARY TO
MAKE SURE THAT CHILDREN ARE
SCHOOL-READY.
AND BECAUSE WE HAVE
SYSTEMATICALLY CONFINED PEOPLE
OF COLOR, AND PARTICULARLY POOR
PEOPLE OF COLOR, TO THE CITY OF
ROCHESTER IN ONE PLACE, WE FIND
THAT THE CITY'S SCHOOL DISTRICT
SUFFERS FROM THIS PHENOMENA OF
LOW AVERAGE TEST SCORES.
IT DOES NOT HAVE LOW TEST SCORES
FOR CHILDREN WHO ARE WELL
PREPARED AND FOR MIDDLE-CLASS
STUDENTS, OF WHICH THERE ARE
MANY.
>> Matt: PITTSFORD SUTHERLAND'S
SUPERINTENDENT JOHN ECKHARDT
ISN'T CONVINCED HIS SCHOOL
DISTRICT WOULD BENEFIT EITHER.
HE SAYS VERY LITTLE DATA IS
AVAILABLE TO ANALYZE, FORCING
DISCUSSION INTO THE THEORETICAL.
>> WELL, I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO
ARE PROPONENTS OF CONSOLIDATION
TYPICALLY POINT TO THE ISSUE OF
EFFICIENCY BEING IMPROVED BY
ECONOMIES OF SCALE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE 18
DIFFERENT BUSINESS OFFICES, FOR
EXAMPLE.
>> Matt: WHILE TALK OF
CONSOLIDATION TYPICALLY INVOLVES
ALLOCATION OF MONEY AND OTHER
RESOURCES, ECKHARDT SAYS WE
SHOULDN'T LOSE SIGHT OF THE
STUDENTS.
>> THE KEY ISSUE IN THE WHOLE
DEBATE OF RELATIVE SCHOOLS IS
WHAT IMPACT WOULD CONSOLIDATION
HAVE ON AN INDIVIDUAL STUDENT'S
EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE AND WHAT
OUTCOMES THEY ACHIEVE.
>> Matt: ECKHARDT SAYS
CONSOLIDATING MONROE COUNTY'S
SCHOOL DISTRICT MAY HELP TO
LEVEL THE EDUCATIONAL PLAYING
FIELD FOR ALL STUDENTS BY
DISTRIBUTING RESOURCES MORE
EVENLY.
HOWEVER, IN THAT SCENARIO,
WEALTHIER SUBURBAN DISTRICTS MAY
BE FORCED TO GIVE UP SOMETHING
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT.
>> IT'S MORE OF AN ISSUE OF
CONTROL, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, WE,
AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, FOR EXAMPLE
IN PITTSFORD, ARE ABLE TO
CONTROL THE LEVEL OF RESOURCES
THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO THE
SCHOOLS.
WE'RE ABLE TO MAKE JUDGMENTS
ABOUT WHAT PROGRAMS WE WILL
OFFER, WHAT KINDS OF SERVICES WE
WILL OFFER, WHAT KINDS OF CLASS
SIZES WE WANT, WHAT THE CORE
VALUES ARE THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO
US IN RUNNING OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM.
WE MAKE THOSE JUDGMENTS HERE AT
THIS POINT.
I THINK THE GREATEST ISSUE IS
THE REMOVAL OF THE ABILITY TO
MAKE THOSE DECISIONS AT THE
LEVEL OF THE LOCAL SCHOOL
DISTRICT WOULD BE THE GREAT
IMPEDIMENT TO PEOPLE BEING
WILLING TO ENGAGE IN SOME SORT
OF A CONSOLIDATION OF SCHOOL
DISTRICTS.
>> Matt: WHEN CONSIDERING THE
ISSUE OF SCHOOL CONSOLIDATION,
ECKHARDT SAYS WE MUST FIRST LOOK
AT WHERE THIS IDEA EXTENDS FROM,
THE IDEA OF METRO GOVERNMENT.
>> THE SCHOOL CONSOLIDATION
ISSUE IS REALLY A SECOND-LEVEL
ISSUE TO THE ISSUE OF
GOVERNMENTAL CONSOLIDATION.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT REALLY NEEDS
TO BE TALKED ABOUT FIRST AND
PROBABLY SETTLED FIRST IF
THERE'S TO BE ANY CHANGE IN IT,
BECAUSE THE SCHOOL SYSTEM --
SCHOOL SYSTEMS ARE BASICALLY A
SUBSET OF THE LARGER SOCIETY, IF
YOU WILL, AND THE GOVERNMENTAL
INSTITUTIONS.
>> Matt: Dr. CARL GRANT IS AN
EDUCATION PROFESSOR FROM THE
UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN WHO
SPECIALIZES IN MULTICULTURAL
EDUCATION.
HE SAYS DISTRICTS CANNOT VIEW
THEMSELVES AS SEPARATE ENTITIES
BUT SHOULD CONSIDER ALL
CHILDREN, URBAN AND SUBURBAN,
ALIKE.
>> WE NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE WHO
ARE POOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO
PARTICIPATE ACTIVELY IN ALL
ASPECTS OF SOCIETY.
WE NEED TO DO FOR THOSE WHO ARE
WEALTHY.
WE NEED TO LET THEM KNOW THAT
THEY HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO
HELP AND TO REACH OUT TO OTHERS.
(Music)
>> Elissa: SO WE'VE HEARD THE
THOUGHTS OF A FEW EDUCATION
LEADERS, AND NOW WE'RE IN STUDIO
WITH SOME MORE KEY PLAYERS IN
THIS DEBATE.
WE'RE GOING TO START WITH CHRIS
WILMOT, A MONROE COUNTY
LEGISLATOR WHO IN 1996 PROPOSED
A FEASIBILITY STUDY TO LOOK AT
CONSOLIDATION.
WHAT ABOUT NOW?
DO YOU THINK IT'S STILL WORTH
TAKING A LOOK AT?
>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.
I MEAN, FOR TWO MAIN REASONS.
ONE IS ON THE EFFICIENCY FISCAL
FRONT, NEW YORK STATE AND MONROE
COUNTY ALSO ARE DROWNING IN
DUPLICATION OF GOVERNMENTAL
SERVICES.
WE HAVE THE FIFTH-HIGHEST
PROPERTY TAXES IN THE COUNTRY.
THAT'S FROM M&T BANK, A 1999
STUDY THEY DID.
OUR SCHOOL TAXES ARE HIGH.
WE HAVE SUPERINTENDENTS MAKING
AMONG THE HIGHEST SALARIES OF
PUBLIC OFFICIALS IN THE COUNTY,
WELL OVER $120,000.
THAT'S ONE ISSUE.
THE OTHER ISSUE MORE IMPORTANTLY
I THINK IS THAT, STUDY AFTER
STUDY PROVES THAT, WHEN YOU HAVE
HIGH CONCENTRATIONS OF POVERTY
IN URBAN CENTERS OR WHEREVER, IN
RURAL CENTERS, YOU HAVE LOW TEST
SCORES.
AND WE JUST SAW THE STATE
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION RELEASE
THEIR FINDINGS THAT SHOW WHEN
YOU LOOK AT FOURTH-GRADERS AND
EIGHTH-GRADERS IN THE STATE
ENGLISH AND MATH PROFICIENCY
EXAMS, THE DISPARITIES ARE
ENORMOUS BETWEEN THE CITY SCHOOL
SYSTEM AND SUBURBAN DISTRICT.
SO WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT IT
AGAIN, AND I APPLAUD THE MAYOR
FOR HAVING THE COURAGE TO SAY
IT'S TIME TO LOOK AT IT ONE MORE
TIME.
>> Elissa: IN TERMS OF
EFFICIENCIES, THOUGH, THERE ARE
SOME STUDIES THAT SAY REALLY
THERE AREN'T GOING TO BE THAT
MANY COST SAVINGS.
IT SEEMS LIKE THE DEBATE IS NOW
SHIFTING TO QUALITY OF EDUCATION
AND AWAY FROM COST, DON'T YOU
THINK?
>> YES, AND NO.
I DISAGREE WITH THE EXPERTS WHO
SAY WE COULDN'T REALIZE SAVINGS
AND COST EFFICIENCIES IN THIS
STATE AND IN THIS COUNTY.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE MOST
PROSPEROUS AND FASTEST GROWING
COMMUNITIES AND METROPOLITAN
AREAS AROUND THE UNITED STATES,
THEY ARE TYPICALLY IN THE SOUTH
AND WEST; THEY HAVE THE LEAST
AMOUNT OF GOVERNMENT; THEY HAVE
AREAS THAT DON'T HAVE TOWNS AND
VILLAGES.
THEY HAVE UNINCORPORATED PARTS
OF COUNTIES.
DOWN IN CHARLOTTE, NORTH
CAROLINA, VERY FAST GROWING
METROPOLITAN AREA THAT IS NOW
THE THIRD-LARGEST BANKING CENTER
IN THE COUNTRY, YOU HAVE A
COUNTYWIDE SCHOOL SYSTEM.
IS IT PERFECT?
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
ARE THERE OTHER MEASURES WE CAN
EMPLOY BESIDES A COUNTYWIDE
SCHOOL SYSTEM IN MONROE COUNTY?
ABSOLUTELY.
COUNTYWIDE MAGNET SCHOOLS IS A
GOOD EXAMPLE, AN EXPANDED
URBAN/SUBURBAN TRANSFER PROGRAM;
SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A
CONSOLIDATED ONE-UNIT DISTRICT
IN MONROE COUNTY, BUT IT IS
WORTH DISCUSSING AS ONE OPTION.
>> Elissa: ALL RIGHT.
LET'S TALK TO DARRYL PORTER FROM
THE ROCHESTER CITY SCHOOL BOARD.
YOU'RE THE ONE, YOUR
ORGANIZATION BEING ASKED
POSSIBLY TO LOOK AT THE IDEA OF
PUTTING ITSELF OUT OF BUSINESS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE
FISCAL VERSUS QUALITY EDUCATION
ISSUE, AND DO YOU THINK WE
SHOULD BE DISCUSSING IT AT THIS
POINT?
>> WELL, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION TO
ASK, BUT IT'S ONE THAT'S BEEN
ASKED SINCE THE '60s.
SHOULD WE TALK, TALK, TALK?
ME PERSONALLY, I'M TIRED OF
TALKING.
WE EITHER ARE GOING TO MAKE A
DECISION TO DO SOMETHING OR NOT
DO IT.
AND ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE
AREN'T DOING ANYTHING STEMS ON
FEAR, FOR ONE, DEALING WITH THIS
ISSUE OF RACISM.
ANOTHER, AND ALSO
INSTITUTIONALIZED RACISM, WHICH
IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING ALL
THE WAY BACK TO NEW FUTURES; WE
WERE TRYING TO ADDRESS BACK
THEN.
AND BECAUSE OF THAT, NEW FUTURES
IS NO MORE.
SO WHAT IS THE WILLINGNESS OF
THE CITY AND THE COMMUNITY TO
ACTUALLY WANT TO GO FORWARD WITH
DISCUSSIONS AROUND THIS?
>> Elissa: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT
WILLINGNESS, THOUGH, I MEAN, YOU
MENTION THE WORD "RACE."
I MEAN, ARE YOU SAYING THAT
THERE'S NOT WILLINGNESS ON THE
PART OF COMMUNITIES TO DO THIS
BECAUSE OF RACE ISSUES?
>> MY QUESTION IS IS THERE
WILLINGNESS AMONG COMMUNITIES TO
DO THIS?
CHRIS BROUGHT UP THE
URBAN/SUBURBAN PROGRAM, WHICH I
PERSONALLY HAD MENTIONED BACK IN
1996 WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
CONSOLIDATION OF SCHOOLS BACK
THEN, AND WE DID ACCOMPLISH OUT
OF THOSE TALKS THE CONSOLIDATION
OF SERVICES, WHICH SAVED US
MONEY ACROSS THE COUNTY WITH
MONROE COUNTY SCHOOLS.
AND THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE THAT WE
CAN LOOK AT AS WELL AS
CONSOLIDATING OF SCHOOLS.
>> Elissa: WHAT DO YOU THINK
PERSONALLY?
IS IT SOMETHING YOU THINK WE
OUGHT TO DO RIGHT NOW?
>> RIGHT NOW, I DON'T THINK WE
HAVE THE TIME TO EVEN GET INTO
THE DISCUSSION.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE FISCAL
CONDITIONS OF NOT ONLY THE
ROCHESTER CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT
BUT ALL DISTRICTS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
DEALING WITH A QUALITY EDUCATION
AND FAIR FUNDING FOR EDUCATION.
ALL OF OUR ATTENTION NEEDS TO BE
ADDRESSED TO THAT RIGHT NOW, AND
THEN WE CAN DEAL WITH THE OTHER
ISSUES ONCE WE TAKE CARE OF
THOSE.
>> Elissa: ALL RIGHT.
WELL, WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS
PART OF THE ROAD WERE THE
TEACHERS IN THE CLASSES.
THERE ARE SOME LEADERS WHO SAY
THAT, YOU KNOW, A MEGADISTRICT
COULD BE GOOD OR BAD IN A
CLASSROOM.
LET'S TALK TO TOM GILLETT FROM
ROCHESTER TEACHERS' ASSOCIATION.
HOW DO YOU THINK TEACHERS WOULD
BE IMPACTED BY A CONSOLIDATED
SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND WHAT'S YOUR
POSITION ON IT AT THIS POINT?
>> THE UNION HAS NOT TAKEN A
POSITION BECAUSE THERE'S NO
SPECIFIC PROPOSAL IN FRONT OF
US.
WE WANT THE BEST QUALITY
TEACHERS IN FRONT OF EVERY GROUP
OF KIDS, REGARDLESS OF HOW THE
KIDS ARE GROUPED.
SENATOR RICHARD DOLLINGER
RECENTLY RAISED SOME QUESTIONS
THAT I THINK ARE PERTINENT TO
THIS DISCUSSION, AND THEY HAVE
TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT, IN NEW
YORK STATE, STUDENTS IN THE BIG
FIVE CITIES HAVE TO SUE THE
GOVERNMENT TO GET A QUALITY
EDUCATION, AND THAT'S GOING ON
HERE IN ROCHESTER IN THE GRACE
SUIT, THE C.S.E. SUIT IN NEW
YORK CITY; YONKERS HAS A
SEGREGATION SUIT, THAT ALL
INVOLVE THE CONCENTRATIONS OF
POVERTY IN THE STATE AND THE
FACT THAT STUDENTS AND THEIR
FAMILIES IN THE BIG FIVE CITIES,
THEY CAN'T GET WHAT THEIR
COUNTERPARTS IN THE SUBURBS CAN
GET UNLESS THEY GO TO COURT TO
GET IT, AND THEY'RE AT LEAST
CAPABLE OF DOING THAT.
>> Elissa: ALL RIGHT.
WE HEARD IN THE STORY ON TAPE
ABOUT LOCAL CONTROL AND
COMMUNITY CONTROL, AND THAT'S
OBVIOUSLY A BIG ISSUE.
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK DARRYL
PORTER: WHAT DO YOU THINK
COMMUNITIES MEAN BY THAT WHEN
THEY TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN
GIVING UP LOCAL CONTROL, AND HOW
DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT IN TERMS
OF LOCAL COMMUNITY CONTROL?
>> WELL, LOCAL CONTROL, IF I'M
TALKING WITH SOME OF MY
COLLEAGUES ACROSS THE COUNTY,
THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST
PROBLEMS, POWER AND CONTROL.
PEOPLE WONDER ARE THEY GOING TO
LOSE THEIR IDENTITY, THEIR
COMMUNITIES, THE COMMUNITY AS
THEY KNOW IT?
ARE THEY GOING TO BE CHANGED?
ARE THEY GOING TO BE ENHANCED OR
ARE THEY GOING TO BE DIMINISHED?
WHO AM I GOING TO HAVE TO REPORT
TO AS FAR AS GETTING MY IDEAS
AND MY CONCEPTS ACROSS THAT'S
GOING TO BENEFIT MY CHILD THAT
LIVES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD?
RATHER, ARE WE GOING TO HAVE
PROGRAMS ADDRESSING URBAN
PROGRAMS FOR EDUCATION?
ALL OF THOSE ISSUES ARE CONCERNS
AND FEARS THAT PEOPLE ARE
RAISING NOW.
IF YOU LOOK AT TAXES, YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT TAXES.
NOW, IF I'M MERGING WITH YOU,
THEN IS THAT GOING TO COST ME
MORE MONEY IN TAXES OR LESS
MONEY IN TAXES?
AM I GOING TO LOSE RESOURCES,
GAIN RESOURCES?
ALL OF THOSE ARE QUESTIONS THAT
PEOPLE HAVE THAT WE NEED TO
EVENTUALLY SIT DOWN AND REALLY
HAVE A DISCUSSION AROUND.
>> Elissa: SO IT'S AN EMOTIONAL
DISCUSSION, AND I GUESS MY
QUESTION FOR CHRIS WILMOT,
MONROE COUNTY LEGISLATOR, IS
WHERE DOES THE PUBLIC COME INTO
THIS AND HOW DO WE DEAL WITH
THOSE EMOTIONS?
I MEAN, YOU SAID THAT THE STATES
-- IT'S A PAINFUL YEAR FISCALLY
SPEAKING AND ALWAYS AROUND.
SO WHERE DOES THE PUBLIC COME
INTO THIS AND HOW DO WE DEAL
WITH THE EMOTION?
I MEAN, IS THIS JUST SOMETHING
THAT IS JUST -- WE HAVE TO DO
SOMETHING RADICAL, AS YOU SAID A
LITTLE BIT EARLIER?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO
TAKE IT OUT OF THE EMOTIONAL
REALM AT SOME POINT AND BRING IT
INTO THE LESS THEORETICAL AND
MORE PRACTICAL REALM.
AND, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE
STATE TEST SCORES THAT WERE JUST
RELEASED, I MEAN, YOU HAVE
CHILDREN IN THE CITY SCHOOL
SYSTEM THAT ARE -- LESS THAN 10%
ARE PASSING THE STATE MATH AND
ENGLISH PROFICIENCY EXAMS IN THE
EIGHTH GRADE.
IN THE FOURTH GRADE, THEY'RE
ONLY EXCEEDING 20 TO 25%.
YOU LOOK AT THE SUBURBAN RATES
OF PASSAGE OF THESE TESTS,
THEY'RE ANYWHERE FROM 60 TO 93%.
AND OUR BEST DISTRICTS AND
SUBURBS, TO THE PITTSFORD AND
BRIGHTONS OF THE WORLD, YOU SEE
85, 90, 93% STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT
RATES IN THOSE TESTS.
THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARY
PROBLEM.
IT IS NOT THE FAULT NECESSARILY
OF THE CITY SCHOOL BOARD, OF THE
TEACHERS' ASSOCIATION OR THE
TEACHERS THEMSELVES.
IT IS A COMMUNITYWIDE PROBLEM
THAT IS GOING TO TAKE THE
SUBURBS TO GET INVOLVED, THE
STATE OF NEW YORK.
I'M ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF THE
GRACE LAWSUIT.
WE SUED BECAUSE THE STATE OF NEW
YORK SEEMED TO HAVE LITTLE
INTEREST IN EQUALIZING THE
EDUCATIONAL OUTCOMES OF URBAN
STUDENTS WITH SUBURBAN STUDENTS,
AND I REPRESENT AN ALL-URBAN
DISTRICT.
IT IS INCUMBENT UPON ME TO
REPRESENT MY CONSTITUENTS AND
FIGHT HARD FOR BETTER EDUCATION,
AND FRANKLY BECAUSE OF A NUMBER
OF FACTORS THEY ARE NOT GETTING
THAT EDUCATION RIGHT NOW.
>> Elissa: ONE OF THE THINGS
YOU CAN'T DENY, THOUGH, IT SEEMS
TO BE AT LEAST PUBLICLY THERE'S
VERY LITTLE SUPPORT FOR THIS.
WE SAW CONGRESSWOMAN SLAUGHTER
IN THE NEWSPAPER THE OTHER DAY,
STATE LEGISLATORS WITH THE
POSSIBLE EXCEPTION OF SENATOR
DOLLINGER, WE'RE NOT HEARING
SUPPORT FROM VERY MANY CORNERS,
YOU AND THE MAYOR AND THE R.T.A.
HASN'T TAKEN A POSITION YET.
I MEAN, IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM
LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S
GOING TO BE SUPPORTED.
>> WELL, FEAR IS NATURAL.
CHANGE IS HARD.
THIS IS THE HARDEST AND MOST
DIFFICULT CHANGE THAT ANY
COMMUNITY IN THE UNITED STATES
CAN ADDRESS BECAUSE IT BRINGS UP
ALL KINDS OF FEARS.
BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT: OUR
HARVARD RESEARCHER IN OUR
LAWSUIT, GARY ORFIELD, SPENT HIS
LIFE RESEARCHING THESE ISSUES.
AND HE FINDS THAT WHEN YOU PUT
LOW-INCOME KIDS, WHO DON'T HAVE
HIGH ACHIEVEMENT TYPICALLY, IN
MIDDLE-CLASS PERHAPS SUBURBAN
CLASSROOM SITUATIONS, THE
MIDDLE-CLASS STUDENTS AND THE
HIGH-ACHIEVING STUDENTS, THEIR
TEST SCORES DON'T TRADITIONALLY
FALL DOWN.
THEY DON'T COLLAPSE.
IT'S THE LOW-INCOME KIDS WHO
HAVE NOT BEEN ACHIEVING WHOSE
TEST SCORES COME UP.
AND I THINK THAT PEOPLE NEED TO
KNOW THAT, THAT THIS IS NOT
GOING TO BE THE END OF THE WORLD
IF WE DO THIS BUT IT HAS TO BE
LOOKED AT.
>> Elissa: OKAY.
THAT'S A KEY SENTENCE RIGHT
THERE.
LET ME ASK TOM GILLETT AND
DARRYL PORTER BEFORE WE LEAVE.
WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.
SHOULD WE AT LEAST BE TALKING
ABOUT IT, AND IS THERE ANYTHING
ELSE OTHER THAN SOMETHING IN
BETWEEN WE NEED TO BE TALKING
ABOUT RIGHT NOW?
LET'S START WITH DARRYL.
>> PERSONALLY I THINK WE NEED TO
BE TALKING ABOUT HOW TO RAISE
ACADEMICS IN THE DISTRICT, AS
WELL AS HOW TO -- WHEN YOU GET
YOUR EDUCATION, HOW TO GO OUT
AND GET A JOB, YOU KNOW.
THERE'S GOT TO BE JOB CREATIONS
WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY.
IF WE HAD GOOD JOBS IN THE
COMMUNITY, THEN PARENTS AND
FAMILIES WOULD BE ABLE TO
SUPPORT THE EDUCATION OF THEIR
CHILDREN.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST --
ECONOMICS IS A BIG, BIG PROBLEM.
>> Elissa: OKAY.
LET'S GO ON TO TOM.
>> AND I WOULD WELCOME, AS MAYOR
JOHNSON RECOMMENDED, AN OPEN
DISCUSSION, WHICH I DON'T THINK
WE'VE HAD YET, AND WE NEED TO
HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.
WE NEED TO GET TO THE ISSUES OF
EQUITY AND EXCELLENCE IN
EDUCATION FOR ALL KIDS IN THE
COMMUNITY OF MONROE, AND AS ED
ROBANSKI SAYS, EQUITY WITHOUT
EXCELLENCE IS TOKENISM, AND
EXCELLENCE WITHOUT EQUITY IS
PRIVILEGE, AND WE NEED TO GET
BEYOND THAT.
>> Elissa: ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN, FOR YOUR
TIME.
WE APPRECIATE IT.
UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS ALL THE
TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS
DISCUSSION.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THIS
ISSUE, YOU CAN LOG ONTO OUR WEB
SITE AT wxxi.org/ntk.
AND WHILE YOU'RE THERE YOU CAN
ALSO TAKE PART IN OUR WEEKLY
SURVEY QUESTION, AND FOR
COMPREHENSIVE DAILY COVERAGE OF
STATE ISSUES AND NEWS, IT'S
nycitizens.org.
IT'S NOW TIME FOR THIS WEEK'S
EDITION OF THE BUSINESS SECTION
WITH THE "DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE."
(Music)
GARY HAS THE WEEK OFF, SO DOES
ELLEN ROSEN, AND DAVID TYLER IS
HERE.
HE WRITES FOR THE BUSINESS
SECTION FOR THE "THE
DEMOCRAT
AND CHRONICLE."
DAVID, JUST YOU AND ME THIS
WEEK.
I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR BEING
WITH US.
>> WELL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> Elissa: REAL ESTATE AND
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FOR THE
NEWSPAPER.
NOW, THE "DEMOCRAT AND
CHRONICLE" RECENTLY REPORTED A
RECORD HIGH FOR UNEMPLOYMENT IN
MONROE COUNTY AND THAT
CONTINUOUS COUNTIES WERE IN
WORSE SHAPE.
THE QUESTION IS WHY THE SURGE IN
THOSE LOOKING FOR WORK RIGHT
NOW?
>> WELL, FOR A LONG TIME WE'VE
BEEN HEARING ABOUT HOW THERE ARE
LAYOFFS AT OUR MANUFACTURING
COMPANIES, THE KODAKS, THE
XEROXES, THE BAUSCH & LOMBS AND
SOME OF THE OTHER MANUFACTURERS.
BUT, FOR THE FIRST TIME, WE'RE
ALSO SEEING THAT OUR SERVICE
ECONOMY COMPANIES ARE ALSO
STRUGGLING, AND THAT HAS REALLY
LED TO THE JUMP IN UNEMPLOYMENT.
>> Elissa: OKAY.
SO SERVICE ECONOMY.
EXAMPLES?
>> THE SOFTWARE COMPANIES, THE
TELECOM COMPANIES,
NON-TRADITIONAL MEDICAL
SERVICES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SOME OF THOSE PLACES ARE HAVING
PROBLEMS.
>> Elissa: ARE THESE SOME OF
THE SMALLER COMPANIES THAT WE
MIGHT HAVE POINTED TO A COUPLE
YEARS AGO THAT SAID, YOU KNOW,
THESE ARE SORT OF THE BAILOUT
COMPANIES; WHEN THE BIG THREE
LAY OFF, THESE SMALLER COMPANIES
ARE GOING TO PICK UP THE SLACK?
>> SOME OF THEM ARE HAVING
PROBLEMS.
FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN, THERE HAVE
BEEN SEVERAL REPORTS OF SOME OF
THESE SMALLER COMPANIES
STRUGGLING, BUT THEY STILL
REMAIN THE HOPE FOR A LOT OF
PEOPLE IN THIS ECONOMY.
>> Elissa: OKAY.
WE HEARD EARLIER THAT THIS WAS
-- THIS IS A RELATIVELY WEALTHY
AREA OF THE STATE, BUT WE ALSO
KNOW THAT A LOT OF THE STATE IS
SUFFERING RIGHT NOW.
IS IT A MATTER OF TIMING?
IS THE FINANCIAL MALAISE THAT'S
BEEN IN NEW YORK STATE FINALLY
CATCHING UP WITH US, OR IS THERE
SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON?
>> I THINK THAT HAS A LOT TO DO
WITH IT.
WHEN YOU TALK TO ECONOMISTS IN
THIS AREA, THE NATIONAL
RECESSION AND THE NEW YORK STATE
TROUBLES ARE CATCHING UP WITH
ROCHESTER AS WELL.
THE SERVICE SECTOR ACROSS THE
COUNTRY IS HAVING PROBLEMS, AND
THAT'S WHAT'S LED TO THIS MINI
RECESSION.
>> Elissa: HOW MUCH OF AN
EFFECT COULD THAT REALLY HAVE ON
US?
WHAT'S THE PROGNOSIS IF YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT A BIG THREE THAT
MAY NOT BE AS STRONG AS THEY
ONCE WERE, AND NOW THE SERVICE
SECTOR?
WHAT'S THE PROGNOSIS FROM YOUR
PERSPECTIVE?
>> WELL, I THINK IF YOU TALK TO
SIX DIFFERENT ECONOMISTS, YOU'D
PROBABLY GET EIGHT DIFFERENT
ANSWERS TO THAT.
THERE'S A LOT OF DEBATE OUT
THERE RIGHT NOW FROM THE PEOPLE
WE'RE TALKING TO ABOUT JUST
WHAT'S GOING ON AND HOW LONG
IT'S GOING TO LAST.
THERE WERE SOME NUMBERS THAT
WERE RELEASED TODAY THAT SHOWED
THAT THE ECONOMY ACTUALLY GREW
NATIONALLY IN THE FOURTH QUARTER
OF 2000 -- OR 2001, EXCUSE ME,
WHICH I THINK WAS A LITTLE
SURPRISING TO MOST PEOPLE.
THE HOPE IS THAT THESE SERVICE
COMPANIES ARE GOING TO START
PICKING UP THE SLACK AGAIN, AND
SOME PEOPLE THINK WE MAY SEE
GROWTH IN THE SECOND HALF OF
THIS YEAR.
>> Elissa: ANOTHER HOPE FOR
GROWTH, THE WORD PHOTONICS,
SOMETHING YOU'RE WRITING ABOUT
FOR THE SUNDAY PAPER.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IT IS AND
WHY WE'RE HOPEFUL ABOUT IT?
>> WELL, PHOTONICS, LOOSELY
DEFINED, IT'S THE STUDY OF
HARNESSING LIGHT FOR DIFFERENT
APPLICATIONS; WHEREAS IN
ELECTRONICS, THE BASIC UNIT OF
ELECTRONICS IS THE ELECTRON, IN
PHOTONICS THE BASIC UNIT IS THE
PHOTON, WHICH MAKES UP LIGHT.
AND IT HAS A WIDE RANGE OF
APPLICATIONS THAT PEOPLE HOPE TO
USE IT IN FROM TELECOM SYSTEMS
TO DEFENSE TECHNOLOGY TO NIGHT
VISION GOGGLES TO EVEN SENSORS
THAT WILL FLUSH YOUR URINAL
AUTOMATICALLY.
>> Elissa: AND DEVELOPED HERE
IN ROCHESTER?
WHAT IS THE HOPE FOR ROCHESTER?
>> THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPANIES
IN ROCHESTER THAT ARE WORKING ON
THIS TECHNOLOGY.
THE UNIVERSITIES ARE SPINNING
OUT SOME COMPANIES THAT WILL
HOPEFULLY GROW, AND IT'S --
THERE'S A BIG CONCENTRATION OF
COMPANIES IN ROCHESTER IN THE
GENERAL AREA THAT ARE WORKING ON
IT.
IT'S SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES
OF 120 COMPANIES HAVE DIFFERENT
OPERATIONS OR RESEARCH IN
PHOTONICS, WHETHER IT'S KODAK
WORKING ON SOME TECHNOLOGIES OR
A LITTLE THREE-PERSON OPERATION
IN SOMEBODY'S BASEMENT.
>> Elissa: OKAY.
THAT'S GOING TO BE IN THIS
SUNDAY'S BUSINESS SECTION OF THE
"DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
>> IN THIS SUNDAY'S.
>> Elissa: PERSONALLY, YOUR OWN
SORT OF PROGNOSIS?
YOU THINK IT COULD BE BIG?
120 IS A BIG NUMBER OF
COMPANIES.
>> THERE'S A LOT OF HOPE IN THIS
COMMUNITY FOR THIS TECHNOLOGY TO
TAKE OFF.
LOCAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
OFFICIALS ARE MARKETING IT
HEAVILY TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD,
HOPING THAT PEOPLE WILL COME
HERE AND SEE THE CONCENTRATION
OF TALENT WE HAVE HERE AND
EXPAND AND CREATE MORE JOBS.
THIS CENTER OF EXCELLENCE THAT'S
BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN WHAT
THEY'RE DUBBING "INFOTONICS"
NOW, SORT OF A CATCH PHRASE.
THERE ARE HIGH HOPES FOR THAT.
ONE ESTIMATE SAYS THERE MAY BE
5,000 JOBS CREATED OUT OF THAT
ALONE OVER TEN YEARS.
SO THERE ARE SOME HIGH HOPES.
>> Elissa: ALL RIGHT, GREAT.
WE'LL LOOK FOR THAT IN THE
NEWSPAPER THIS WEEKEND, DAVID.
THANK YOU FOR THIS WEEK'S
REPORT.
>> THANK YOU.
>> Elissa: NOW, THE EASTMAN
WIND
ENSEMBLE HAS JUST CELEBRATED
THEIR 50th ANNIVERSARY.
AND AFTER 37 YEARS OF CONDUCTING
THE GROUP, DONALD HUNSBERGER
WILL BE PASSING HIS BATON TO
MARK SCATTERDAY THIS JULY.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE MUSIC
AND THE MAN BEHIND THE WIND
ENSEMBLE.
(Music)
>> DONALD HUNSBERGER JOINS US
THIS AFTERNOON.
WE'VE HAD A FUN-FILLED WEEK HERE
WITH INTERVIEWS ON CLASSICAL
91.5, BUT WE HAVE SAVED THE MOST
FESTIVE FOR LAST.
DONALD HUNSBERGER JOINS US TO
KICK OFF THE EASTMAN WIND
ENSEMBLE 50th ANNIVERSARY
CELEBRATIONS.
I'M JULIA FIGUERAS.
WELCOME BACK TO OUR STUDIOS,
DON.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> WHEN WE LOOK AT THE LEGACY OF
DONALD HUNSBERGER AND THE
EASTMAN WIND ENSEMBLE, PROBABLY
ONE OF THE GREATEST MOMENTS OF
YOUR LEGACY WOULD BE?
>> THE FIRST ONE WAS IN 1978,
AND THAT WAS FOR AN AGENCY
CALLED THE COMBARA AGENCY.
WE WENT THERE.
THEY BROUGHT US OVER FOR THREE
WEEKS, AND THEN THE STATE
DEPARTMENT WAS STILL DOING
TOURING AT THAT TIME.
THEY SAID WE UNDERSTAND YOU'RE
GOING TO JAPAN.
HOW ABOUT PLAYING ALL THE MAJOR
CITIES OF SOUTHEAST ASIA?
AND SO WE FOLLOWED THAT UP FOR
THREE MORE WEEKS, AND WE'VE BEEN
THERE EVERY OTHER YEAR, '90, '2,
'4, '6, '8, 2000.
(Music)
I THINK THE LEGACY WOULD BE THAT
WE TRIED TO MAKE SOMETHING
MUSICAL ON THE SAME PLAIN AS ANY
OTHER PERFORMING ORGANIZATION.
>> STRICTLY CONJECTURE:
WHAT'S IT GOING TO FEEL LIKE
WHEN YOU PUT DOWN YOUR BATON FOR
THE EASTMAN WIND ENSEMBLE FOR
THE LAST TIME?
>> IT WILL BE DIFFERENT.
IT IS A LOT OF WORK.
IT'S HARD WORK TO CREATE A GROUP
EVERY TIME YOU START A NEW
PROGRAM, SUCH AS WE DO WITH OUR
ROTATION SYSTEM, AND TRY TO PUT
THEM TOGETHER IN A COUPLE WEEKS.
AND THAT PART, YOU GO OUT AND
WORK WITH SOME OTHER GROUP OR
JUST CONDUCTING THE R.P.O, YOU
KNOW, TWO WEEKS AGO.
IT'S ALL MUSIC, AND AS LONG AS
THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITIES TO
KEEP ON DOING IT, KEEP ON TRYING
TO MAKE IT, ENJOYING IT AS MUCH
AS THE PERFORMERS HOPEFULLY DO
OR THE AUDIENCES DO.
>> DONALD HUNSBERGER, YOU HAVE
BEEN A TREASURE IN THE CITY OF
ROCHESTER, AND I THANK YOU FOR
SPENDING THIS TIME WITH US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> CONGRATULATIONS ON A GREAT
RUN.
(Music)
>> Elissa: AND WE WISH THE
MAESTRO WELL.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THIS
WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEED TO KNOW"
OR TO DISCUSS ANY TOPIC YOU'VE
SEEN TONIGHT, JUST LOG ONTO
wxxi.org/ntk.
AND THAT'S ALL FOR TONIGHT.
WE'LL SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK.
(Music)