Local Races -- 17 April 2003

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>> Just ahead on "Need to Know," it's been a long time since we've
had wide open political races shaping up in the Rochester region.
Tonight we assemble a lively group of political observers to
talk about what's on the horizon.
Also, do you think
sign language is a derivative of English?
We'll show you how the development of a sign language
dictionary in Rochester is proving that it is not.
And we have the business section with the Democrat and
Chronicle next on “Need to Know.”

>> This is "Need to Know," the Rochester area's only in depth
news program.
"Need to Know" is a production of WXXI news and public
affairs.
Covering issues, politics, education and current events.

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through the support of viewers like you.

>> Thanks for joining us.
I'm Michael Caputo.
Since the end of march, our local political season has begun to
take shape.
Mayor bill Johnson announced that he would run for county
executive, the first sitting mayor in
Rochester history to take such a plunge.
Republicans still haven't made it official but everyone
expects county clerk Maggie Brooks to be their candidate.
Then Howard Relin announced he would not seek re-election for
district attorney.
Next day his first assistant Mike Green announced he would switch
to the democratic party and run for his boss' job.
Republicans haven't yet announced a candidate there either.
Last week republican Monroe county legislator Mike Hanna and
democratic lawmaker Bill Benet announced they would seek to do
away with the 10 year term limit law that affects all county
lawmakers.
They want to put this matter before the voters in November.
Meanwhile, local school districts seem to cheer the Fairport
district for announcing it won't present a school budget to
voters until the state passes a budget plan.
State lawmakers approved a bill to delay school budget
elections.
But governor Pataki has vowed not to sign it.
We have three astute political observers in the studio to try
to make sense of these developments.
With us is Irene Matichyn, a long-time county republican activist and fundraiser,
Pat Malgieri, an attorney and
democratic activist and Curt Smith, he will host Perspectives, a radio talk show airing every Sunday on AM 1370
WXXI.
I think I'll give you the first question.
The media was really focused on bill Johnson when he was still
trying to make up his mind.
He said when is he going to make up his mind?
Why do you hear the same questions being asked to Maggie
Brooks?

>> I think the interest focus upon the mayor, I think it's
complete that Maggie Brooks will be the nominee.
You know, my favorite song is Maggie May and bill Johnson is
chopping at the bit to say wake up.
I think I've got something to say to you.
I think it will be fascinating.
I think republicans -- and I happen to be a republican that worked
in two republican White Houses are hallucinating if they
think this race will be a foregone conclusion.
I think it will be competitive and I think it will be very
close.
I think there are a number of hurdles that both candidates have
to hurdle.

>> Are republicans hallucinating?

>> Absolutely not.
We're not hallucinating.
We're very realistic.
Republicans understand that bill Johnson is a formidable
guy.
The republicans also know we go into this quote, unquote, war
aimed with some ammunition.

>> And what is that you're holding in your hand?

>> I'm holding in my hand a booklet, 30-some pages of -- that
was presented by mayor Johnson when he ran for -- he was in the
primary for mayor in 1993.

>> Right.
And you know, it's a very interesting thing as life goes on, we
always have to come back and remember what we said when.
This document which is called living within our means,
presented to you by bill Johnson, talks about the greatest
challenge facing the cities, how to find the money necessary to
sustain the current level of municipal and educational services
without raising -- living within our means without raising taxes.
Because these challenges are so overwhelming, a different
leadership is required.

>> I've got to let you get in on this.

>> Well, I'm delighted that Irene brought that out.
In the first instance, living within our means is certainly a
lesson that the republican leadership and the county could have
taken for the last many years.
We've seen within two years a $50 million surplus to an
anticipated budget deficit leaving the question where did the
$115 million go?
And second, I think bill Johnson is more than anxious to step
up to the plate with that booklet and sustain the
record that he's a mess.
Both of the shortcomings as well as the achievements.

>> Talk about hallucinations.
You are.
This document which has as the centerpiece education
reform, living within a budget of the education system, living
within the city budget.
The fact is that the republicans have gone on for a decade now,
over a decade not raising taxes.
This mayor not only has a major deficit in the school district
and in the city, but has also raised taxes, I think if you just
took the raw numbers, by 38%.
Our record is we've kept taxes flat for 12 years.

>> And in the process, as Tom Richards has pointed out most
recently in the in-depth interview in city news, in the
process essentially bankrupted the government.

>> You know, let me just -- I'm going to give this question to
you.
Isn't this ultimately going to be, at least --

>> This is change.
This is the crux of the debate and Irene would love it if
raising taxes or not raising taxes were to the stars.
It's one aspect of the campaign.
Part of the campaign is as well that unemployment has increased
under jack Doyle.
Part of it as well is that businesses left under jack Doyle.
Part of is as well in the last 10 years, you could look it up,
40,000 people in Monroe county in their 20's have left.
A generation is leaving.
Why?
Why isn't it keeping here?
This is what Johnson is going to say.
He's going to say, look.
We have a question of change versus no change.
Reform versus status quo.
There's a movie called the china syndrome.
Johnson is going to say I’m going to break the china.
I’m going to be nonpartisan in who I
attack and who I disagree with.
You have to recognize national
leader versus someone who's been a television anchor.
No offense.

>> None taken.

>> Maggie Brooks has to show she can go head to head, toe to
toe with a debate with the mayor of Rochester.

>> Steve Minarik said yes.
Do you know what the change is?
The change is from the
Doyle-Johnson feuding days.
Why wouldn't that be apropos.

>> We all like a lack of feuding.
How does she differ from Doyle?
What is she going to do that Doyle didn't to keep people here?
What is she going to do to get big tickets here?

>> Hard for me to believe he identified himself as a
republican.

>> I look at the person.
Not the party.
And I think that's true of Monroe county as well.

>> I'm glad you do.
Let me tell you something.
That breaking china as you referred to is not what this
community wants.
What is the greatest, greatest issues in this campaign is going
to be a person who takes provocative, not to the point of being
nonproductive --

>> To do what?

>> To promote new ideas different than being provocative for
the sake of being provocative.
People address the Doyle-Johnson feuding as something that has
equal share of responsibility.
I would ask you to remember, there's a great advantage in
getting old is that you have a history and you remember stuff.
In 1993, when he got elected there was a year with Bob king.
Johnson came into that, into that office at city hall and
decided he was going to just throw bombs for the sake of
throwing bombs.
He is not -- he is not a consensus builder.

>> Patrick, is that true?
Bomb throwing?
Has Johnson been a bomb thrower in -

>> First of all, I think Bob king had issues with Tom as well
and Tom Ryan I think found that the working relationship with
Bob was much more difficult than he had experienced either with
Tom or his own party and others who were not.
The relationships have clearly predated bill Johnson.
People who know bill know that bill is very strong minded.
Bill can be very stubborn and bill can -- you know, will stand
up in favor of the positions that he believes very strongly
in.

>> this is the campaign, though.

>> What's interesting to me is those are the very attributes
that made him an appealing candidate when he ran for mayor the
first time.
His willingness as a major non-for-profit to speak out
unapologetically and take positions that other leaders in this
community weren't willing to take.

>> This is the crux of the debate.
Provocative got us the fast ferry.
Maggie Brooks didn't do that.
Provocative got us a soccer stadium.
Maggie Brooks didn't do that.
The question is I think there are parameters on both sides and
this will be the marvelous essence of this race and of
politics as a whole.
It's because who can control the agenda.
Is it the republican agenda which is saying Johnson is the
flame thrower, he is enormously hyperbolic or the democratic
campaign saying, look.
We're losing an entire generation.
People are leaving.
It's becoming a status quo.

>> I want to get to another --

>> Here's the ultimate question in any political campaign.
Anybody living in this community, are they saying that the City
of Rochester is better today than it was when bill Johnson ran
for office?
I think the resounding, resounding --

>> Can we say that about the county as well?
Can they say that about the county?

>> I'm going to change the subject here.
I want to get to last week on need to know, we had Howard Relin
here after he said good-bye or at least good-bye in December.
He talked about his nemesis, conservative party chairman Tom
cook.
He mentioned that because of cook, this is the
reason why Mike Green is not going to run on the republican
line and then he talked about the republican party chairman
Steve Minarik.

>> I frankly dismiss all of it completely because sadly, that
person is into control.
Controlling public officials, controlling legislators and
honestly he controls the republican chair.
This republican chair doesn't have the guts to stand up to that
person.
How bizarre is that, mike?
You have 140,000 registered voters in your party.
Another party has 8,000 registered voters and you let him bully
you and tell you what to do.
And citizens and republicans have to look at this and say, the
tail is wagging the dog?
How stupid is that?

>> Please comment.

>> Howard Relin is one of my favorite democrats, actually.

>> A republican becoming a democrat.

>> He really -- yeah.
That's right.
You are, too.
But there are lots of democrats that I like but they probably
were somewhere in their other life republicans.
I know Howard was.
I think taking shots at Steve Minarik is, you know, easy.
He's a tough guy and he has a tough job.

>> He's provocative.

>> He is.
That's his job as party chair, to be provocative.
It is not the job of a government leader to be so provocative
as to provoke everything just for the sake of being
controversial.
But let me go back to the issue of -- what is happening in this
community is that people are looking at different ways to
attack successful regimes.
And I use that word in the best sense today.
Steve Minarik is a warrior.
He's a great general and he is provocative but he wins and the
business of the D.A.'s race is based solely on one fact, Steve
Minarik wants our party to win that seat back after all these
years and we're going to do it.

>> I want to bring up -- I'm sorry.
I'm going to call the democratic party the green party at this
point because we have Mike Green who moved over from the
republican party to the democratic party.
And he's going to be challenged apparently by a gentleman named
Scott green who is an attorney who would also like the
nomination.
Why shouldn't the democratic party go with a guy like Scott
green who was and is a democrat rather than somebody who has
yet to become a democrat?

>> Because the test is going to be, in the democratic party
process, which I don't think with the experiences in the
republican party, democratic party process will allow Scott
green and mike green to make their respective cases to the
committee members and to the members of the democratic party.
That's the issue at convention.
As to who has the best qualification because particularly in
the D.A.'s race, the issue of qualification is absolutely
critical.
When you consider what the D.A. deals with on a day in and day
out basis, talking about issues of life and Liberty, that
requires somebody who has knowledge and is capable and is
independent.
And those are the tests for the real qualifications who ought
to be D.A., not whether you can win but what you'll do with the
office after you win.
Mike green has made the case.
I think by virtue of what he has done in the D.A.'s office up
to this point in time.
He'll have the opportunity to make that case for the democratic
party loyalists and so will Scott green.

>> Size up this race.

>> It's fascinating.
As is the race for county executive.
Irene talked about Steve Minarik.
He's a warrior, a friend, great hockey coach and also fan.
So he likes combat sports.
His track record is superb.
I look at this and I say, isn't mike green the most or wasn't
he the most electable republican?
I would have to suggest yes.

>> Look.
People want in the D.A.'s position, they want someone nonpartisan.
Howard Relin switching parties helped him in a sense.
He was like saying, look.
Parties tonight matter to me.
I think that's the case of mike green.
The republicans in my view ought to have nominated mike green.
I think, and only time will tell whether I'm correct, he was the
most by far electable republican.
Now I think by far he's the most electable democrat.
It will be interesting if green is elected in November, people
will look back and they will say as Howard Relin did, that
republicans win bravery through the election.
If it does happen, that's what the republicans will say.

>> I have about a minute and a half or so left.
I want to ask this about term limits.
The 10-year term limits for county legislators hasn't kicked in
yet but two legislators as we said before want to get before
the voters in November another referendum to get rid of the
term limits.
It doesn't include the county executive which in 1993 there was
a term limit created for him.
Just quick, would what would happen if this proposal got before
the voters and should the county executive be included?
What do you think?

>> There's a great debate about term limits and I go back and
forth about whether I think it's restrictive on the American
voter or not.
I would guess in the context of what people worry about a lot in
their life, politics is on the bottom of the list so maybe help
nudge them a little bit and say this guy or gal is in for this
many years.
I'm not sure that I -- that that's a clear issue and I'm not
sure that it's an issue that drives voter intention anymore.
I think that's kind of a past issue.

>> I'm not for term limits and I never have been because I
think they're counterproductive.
One of the biggest issues out of term limits is that the people
who propose them often are the same people that complain about
the power of the bureaucrats and term limits gives them
greater control over the government.

>> Is it the legislature?
Should it be good for the executive?

>> Legislature in particular is a part-time body, I think that
was one of the justifications that was raised, part-time body
has sort of a natural disadvantage when it comes to the
executive.
So I think it's perhaps, if you're going to have it at all,
might point more to the executive.
In terms of whether or not what will happen if it gets before
the voters, I don't know.
I think it's best at 50/50 it would pass.

>> What do you think?

>> I think if term limits are going to be a fact that they
should go before the voters.
Look.
We want a magnificent war under a republican party to make Iraq
democratic.
Term limits by definition are undemocratic.
We should have the chance to vote for or against the
candidate of our choice.

>> Thank you all for being here very much.
We want your comments on what you've heard.
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