[Captioning Made Possible by the U.S. Department of Education]

just ahead on "Need to Know," the plea for help was as loud as
the close of the 1812 overture.
Rochester philharmonic orchestra announced in March that
it would be more than a half million dollars in the
red and it needed help.
The question is, will a short-term infusion help in the long term?
In other words, can the R.P.O. continue to operate as it has?
We'll look into that and have the business section with the
Democrat and Chronicle.
That's next on "Need to Know."

>> Unfortunately a lot of our support for those kinds of
programs are based on public funds and as government support
tends to dwindle, we have to look very hard as whether we can
continue to do those or not.

>> This is "Need to Know," the Rochester area's only in-depth
news program.
"Need to Know" is a production of wxxi news and public affairs,
covering issues, politics, education and current events.
"Need to Know" is made possible by Dorschell Lexus and through
viewers like you.

>> Thanks for joining us.
I'm Michael Caputo.
The letter to the friends of the Rochester philharmonic
orchestra started with a jolt.
This is an urgent note of concern from the R.P.O.
During one of the strongest artistic seasons ever, the economic
downturn threatens our ability to survive the fiscal year
unless you help.
The R.P.O. was $550,000 in the red.
So it cut staff and asked for the musicians to go a
week without pay and pleaded with the community to come up with
$300,000 by May 1.
They appeared to have gotten to the goal.
But then there were other questions that popped up about the
R.P.O.
In a recent city newspaper, one letter writer suggested that the area
Doesn’t need a philharmonic orchestra and can do
without it.
That elicited a number of angry responses.
Then came this question last week when the mayors of Buffalo,
Rochester and Syracuse convened during the power of three
conference.
It came from John Kraushaar who knows something about the arts by virtue
Of being chairman of the Geva theatre board.
He made it clear he was asking the question on behalf of no one
but himself.
Take a look and then listen to the answers of mayor bill
Johnson and Buffalo mayor Anthony Masiello.

>> I think one of the greatest assets certainly I know we have
in Rochester and I suspect it's true in Syracuse and Buffalo
also is our cultural community.
And you guys have never been the greatest supporter of the
arts.
And yet I believe that there is a way to cooperate and if you
want a real lightning rod, here it is, you all have
philharmonic orchestras that are all struggling and you all are
cutting budgets to them because you have to.
But what if the region were to create a world class philharmonic
and support it altogether and move around between
each one?
Then you can figure out ways to support it.

>> We constantly are wondering, and this idea has come up, a lot
of orchestras around the country are in trouble.
Others have looked to go to regional bases.
We all support arts and entertainment as a way of attracting
people.
Each of our cities have major summer festivals to market to
young and old alike.
So I think that it becomes important for us to advance that
agenda but there are many people who will argue and there's not
enough room in the budgets to put a ton of resources there that
we would like to put because we have to figure out how to
finance police and fire and the -- and to support our schools
and the like.

>> There have been conversations, though, between Buffalo philharmonic
and Rochester philharmonic about doing
joint ventures or urging, you know, those are difficult
issues.

>> They always are.

>> We'll continue to talk about them.

>> A merger with Buffalo is only an idea floated by the R.P.O.
board strategic review committee.
Clearly the R.P.O. is not the only orchestra facing a deficit
and some have had to make radical changes.
Orchestras in California, Georgia, Oklahoma and Colorado have
ceased performing because of fiscal problems.
Even a powerhouse like the Chicago symphony orchestra has seen
subscriptions fall and ticket sales flat.
So as the R.P.O. deals with another deficit, how does it
maintain artistic vision while balancing the bottom line?
Brenda Tremblay takes a look at this annual precarious balance.

>> When the R.P.O. began in 1922, Kodak founder George Eastman
supported the orchestra not only because he loved classical
music but because he believed that it elevated its listeners,
that Rochesterians would become better people by hearing fine
music.
But almost immediately, the musicians began to debate what kind
of fine music the orchestra should offer.
European standards or film scores?
Beethoven or dance tunes?
What would appeal to the community versus what would enrich
it?
That debate continues today.

>> Our aim is to give the audience a good balanced diet of all
kinds of music so if they come to the concerts which we would
like them to do, they can say, well, I really had a bit of
everything this season.

>> Music director Christopher Seaman plans the orchestra's 40
week concert season with pops conductor Jeff Tyzik who says
the idea is to try to blend classical with pop.

>> Sometimes we'll play an Ellington suite and we'll do the
Beethoven Egmont overture right after it.
And it works because in my opinion, there's only two kinds
of music, good and
bad.
As long as you play good music, the styles don't really matter.

>> But they do matter at the box office.
Pops concerts tend to sell more tickets than classical ones.
Yet the R.P.O. schedules fewer pops concerts than
symphonic ones and it's increased the number of classical
concerts it offers.
Meanwhile a recent cash crunch highlighted the orchestra’s vulnerability
to a down economy.
C.E.O. Rick Nowlin who announced a projected half million dollar
deficit in march, says the
orchestra's free educational and outreach concerts may have to
be pared down.

>> Unfortunately a lot of our support for those events are
based on public funds and as government support tends to dwindle
we have to look very hard at whether we can continue to do
those or not.

>> And I appreciate historically what the educational mission
of the philharmonic has been.
The only question is whether government and all the priorities
that it has can subsidize what are essentially arts, cultural
and entertainment organizations and I don't think it can
anymore.

>> Arnie Rothschild is chairman of the Rochester Broadway
theater league, an organization with a $12 million annual
budget.
Arnie Rothschild says that from his perspective, the R.P.O.'s
managers seem to be ignoring the desires of the audience.

>> Alcoholics anonymous has a wonderful line.
If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got.
Well, the truth of the matter is you can't do what you always
did so yeah, there has to be a new model, there has to be a new
business model for the philharmonic to go on.

>> that was the challenge issued to the Utica symphony which
just a few months ago found itself on the brink of financial
collapse.
Susan Smith, the orchestra's executive director, had to go to
the board and report a nearly quarter million dollar deficit.

>> I have to tell you I don't think it's an exaggeration to say
that our board was frightened about -- because after all, they
are ultimately responsible for what happens and the fate of the
orchestra.
And I don't think any of the board wanted to face closure.

>> So Smith and the board and the musicians held a live, two
hour telethon in January hoping to raise enough money to make
it through the year.

>> For a $50 donation --

>> In two hours it generated more than $91,000 in pledges.
And it generated something else, an editorial in the local
paper, the observer dispatch, which challenged the Utica
symphony to rework its finances and to rethink the kind of
music it offered to local audiences.

>> I have to say as unpleasant as it was to read the
unvarnished truth, it was right dead on.

>> Smith and the Utica symphony board made decisions and faced
the T.V. cameras again two weeks ago.

>> We listened to the public, we listened to all of the press
that surrounded our telethon back in January that we needed to
fix the financial problems and we needed to talk about
programming.

>> And in programming came the most radical change, the
board scrapped most of next season's classical concerts and
replaced them with pops concerts featuring artists such as
Molly Mason, Jay Ungar, and the Kingston trio.
It also moved the classical concerts from a hall as big as the
Eastman theater to a small 500 seat venue which is cheaper to heat
and easier to fill.
Those drastic measures aren't likely to take place in Rochester
where there's a larger and on average wealthier audience for classical
music.
If the orchestra ends this season with another operating
deficit, its managers won't be shocked.
From its very beginning in 1922, the R.P.O. has never been able to rely on ticket sales alone to pay
the bills.
Music director Christopher Seaman says relying on corporate,
governmental and other public funds is just the cost of
supporting a major orchestra.

>> I meet people in all of the corporations who tell me they can
attract a better work force because they can say there's
quality of life here, we have a great orchestra, theater, other
arts and so on, I think that is very, very important and we're
living in a time where we, the orchestra, and the board and the
management and all of us are the guardians of something very,
very important.
Because I think it's very easy to know the price of everything
and the value of nothing.
And we are in the area of what is valuable.

>> In studio with us to continue the discussion we have John
Pitcher, classical music critic for the Democrat and Chronicle,
Christopher Seaman, musical director for the R.P.O. and James
Undercofler, director of the Eastman school of music.
Thank you for coming.
Let me throw the first question out to you there.
maybe somebody is saying an orchestra is nice but when economic
times are difficult, the government, even the private
foundations have to put money toward things that matter more,
education, crime, what would you say to that person?

>> I would have to say it before -- I had to say it before.
Now is not a time to scrimp or to reduce funding or support for
the cultural infrastructure of a community.
Yes, there are priorities and perhaps we need to do some
adjusting temporarily of amounts, but the investment continues
to need to be made to invest in our human potential of
nurturing of the human spirit.
And what that brings to a community.

>> Monroe county cut the funding to the R.P.O. as did all of
the arts and nonprofit organizations and when it did so, Monroe
county executive jack Doyle said these organizations or some
nonprofits have to fundamentally change the way they do their
business.
Has the R.P.O. fundamentally changed the way it's done business
in the last year?

>> I believe it's on its way to.
I serve on the board of the R.P.O. and am on the visioning
committee and we believe we're on our way to fundamentally
changing.>> How so?
In what ways -- what might be options?
>> I think, you know, the first level of change is recognition
and believability.
And I do believe we're at the point where we know that
government support is something that rises and falls so to
speak.
And that we need to build in economic additions that don't take
that into the full structure of the budget perhaps into the
future.
We're looking at ways to develop other funding mechanisms.

>> John, this is not solely the R.P.O.'s problem.
People across the country have dealt with this.
What's it been like in 2003?

>> This has been a bad time and it's important to emphasize
this is in no way a Rochester problem.
Over the last few years, orchestras in San Jose and Tulsa,
Colorado springs, Savannah have shut down.
The Florida philharmonic is teetering on bankruptcy.
The Louisville orchestra is very similar to the orchestra here
in size and the community is very similar.
And they've been having trouble coming up with the money to pay
their musicians.
And it's -- it has posed a very significant short-term
problem.
In this kind of sluggish economy, everything has been down.
Corporate funding is down, foundation grants are down, you
know, ticket sales have been flat and public support from
government institutions are down.

>> On the way that it's been attacked is in some cases they
just stop the season.
What other ways have people tried to deal with this?

>> Well, they're really struggling with it because I think the
significance of this economy has taken a lot by surprise.
I tend to think of the 1990's as having been a decade long kind
of realization for a lot of symphony orchestras.
There was enough money coming in from the stock market that
they didn't really have to take a look at some other problems that
were going on.
They could ignore it.
They were getting calls from foundations that are required to
give money away.
You know, saying, well, we just discovered we had more money
than we thought we did.
We'll have to send you more money.
In the meantime, the classical music recording industry was
going flat if not out of business.

>> Some were releasing I think recording contracts, right?

>> Well, almost no symphony orchestra now has a long term
recording contract.
That used to make up a good bit of income for a lot of orchestras
like Cleveland and Philadelphia and Chicago.
And a long term problem, economics are cyclical.
The money will be there again.
There are longer term problems that the orchestras really have
to deal with.

>> I want to ask a quick question first.
I just want to make sure that I have it straight.
The musicians, they took a week -- they gave back a week's pay,
is that right?
They're not working as well.

>> They agreed not to increase the season by a week so there's
one more week layoff.
They're not playing for nothing during that week.

>> Right.
OK.

>> This is typical of our orchestra who are totally committed
to what they do.
Understand the problem and want to make it work.

>> But let me read you, this comes from the financial times of
London.
It's a quote from henry, the president of the Chicago symphony.
He says there are people who are intimidated about going into a
concert hall.
How are we going to fix that without dumbing down and
putting dancing girls in at intermission?
It raises the question, how do you get more people in the
concert hall?
How do you do it without changing what you are?

>> Henry vogel is very welcome to come to Rochester and very
welcome to come into the Eastman theater at 7:00 before the
8:00 concert where I or somebody where I'm not conducting comes
on stage and gives the audience an appetite for the music
they're about to hear.
And he would also be very welcome to come to our new 101 series
of hockstein which has increased the number of subscribers.
The 101 series is designed to bring music to people who aren't
sure whether they like it or not.
We've discovered that many, many people are profoundly musical
but don't know it so we've got a whole bunch of new people
coming to concerts to do that and I think all orchestras need
to look at ways of reaching out, making it personable, not for
the orchestra and conductor to come on stage as if they've just
descended from some other planet to which they're going to be
beamed back after the last movement of the symphony but are
part of the community, communicating with the audience and
making it a live event that people want to come back.

>> Clearly you've done that.
You've tried to reach out.
You've tried to make it more accessible.
Yet you're facing money crunches.
What are the long term things that you think the orchestra is
facing?

>> Let me say first of all I'm an optimist.
I'm someone who parades on people's rain and this is a
situation.
We've had the perfect storm here, the economy.
9-11 and the effect on the state and county budget.
A terrible winter where people have not wanted to come out.
It's all happened simultaneously.
We've asked for a bridge fund from this community of
$300,000.
We now have $330,000 so that to me is a signal that this
community wants the R.P.O., believes in the R.P.O.'s message
which is that of George Eastman, music makes us more noble
people.
Not snobbier people, not more intellectual people but people
with something extra enriching their lives.

>> What would be the long term situation that you think you're
going to have to deal with?
Apparently the perfect storm did hit but you know, there are
things you're going to have to deal with.

>> Over the weeks and months ahead the board will look at all
kinds of options but the community has signaled very, very
clearly that they want us to continue to serve, to produce
all of the different styles of music with the extraordinary
variety of style with which our orchestra provides the music
and also they've signaled very clearly they don't want to cut
back on the way we serve the community, the education, the free
concerts and so on so our first move is to try to make that
possible, to continue to happen, maybe on a slightly different
basis financially, I don't know.
But those are the options to look at immediately.

>> Is merger a possibility at this point?

>> Merger with Buffalo?

>> Yes.

>> I think it has to be looked at but I think there's a lot
that speaks -- that raises questions about whether it would be
--

>> What would one want to look into?
what would be the questions that
are raised right off the bat.

>> I think the mayor of Buffalo, you know, represents it as a
solution.
You know, and one of the -- I think the misunderstandings is
that you could combine these two orchestras and suddenly have a
New York philharmonic and it doesn't necessarily work that
way.
We already have one truly -- not just because I'm from Rochester
and a supporter but Rochester philharmonic is truly a world
class orchestra now and I would be very worried about messing
with that.
You know, if I could just pick up the second -- Rochester has a
really unique chemistry in terms of music and I think that
we're very close to bringing those elements together.
In the community, education area and music education, there's a
boom going on.
You know, we have literally hundreds and hundreds of students
in the Eastman school's community division who are 55 and older
studying music now, performing music.
There are two huge community choruses in Rochester.
You know, that's amazing.
The school can't handle all of the people who want to study
there.
And the symphony 101 program which the R.P.O. does over at
hockstein sells out the minute it goes up for sale.
It's such an obvious bridge.
There's so many people hungry for music and finding those
bridges from their interest in studying it and participating in
it, to learning about it to attending it is something we can
enhance.

>> I want to -- I'm going to bring up frontier field for a
second.
Monroe county got whacked, if you will, because they were
subsidizing the stadium.
And we're talking about losing, cutting subsidies here and
nobody is complaining.
I just want to ask, should government be involved in this?

>> I think it should be.
The -- of all of the numbers that I heard, we're talking about
a projected $500,000 deficit, a $900,000 cash crunch.
The number that I found most frightening was the $170,000 less
that Monroe county was going to be giving to the R.P.O. because
that was money that the R.P.O. uses for education.
For the first time since the 1990’s, you don't have the
R.P.O. going into the high schools to play this year and that
is the future of the orchestra right there.

>> But the problem, of course, is you're going to get those
people who will say, well, we're cutting education, back to the
beginning, I suppose.
Christopher Seaman, you could address this.
The government, why should the government be involved
especially when the argument is they're cutting the basics.

>> This is not just American thing.
This is a worldwide thing.
Many people think that education means getting qualified to
earn enough money to have a wealthy future.
Well, of course it is that partly.
But it’s a great deal more than that.
True education enables you to have a life even if you're on
unemployment money, you go to the library, you develop
interests and your inner self is educated.
Not just your earning capacity.
And music is about the inner self.

>> With that we do have to go.
Thank you all very much for being here.
This conversation continues with you.
Either on the web at wxxi.org/ntk or by email at
needtoknow@wxxi.org.

FINALLY TONIGHT IN YOUR WORDS, THE PLACE WHERE WE GIVE VOICE
TO YOUR FEEDBACK ABOUT "NEED TO KNOW."
CHRIS SCIME OF EAST ROCHESTER SENT AN EMAIL ABOUT AFFORDABLE
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CHRIS SAID THAT THE PROGRAM SHOULD HAVE EMPHASIZED THE IDEA
OF MIXED HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS, THOSE THAT INCLUDE A RANGE OF
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CHRIS WROTE, "IF WE SUBSIDIZE THE DEVELOPMENT BUT ALLOW IT
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ACCORDING TO INCOME, BUT MIX INCOME GROUPS, THEN THE MIX
STABILIZES AND MITIGATES ALL OF THE RISK FACTORS AND
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I DIDN'T REALLY SEE THIS BIG PICTURE VIEWPOINT FROM YOUR
GUEST.

I SAW HINTS OF DISCRIMINATION BASED ON INCOME, RACE,
ETHNICITY GEOGRAPHY, ET CETERA, BUT THAT REALLY ISN'T THE 24
ROOT CAUSE.

THE ROOT CAUSE IS THE IMAGE OF A LOW INCOME CRIME AND DRUG
INFESTED GHETTO DRAGGING ALL OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY
DOWN WITH IT, BECAUSE THAT WAS THE MODEL OF THE MUNICIPAL
HOUSING A FEW YEARS AGO.

GO TO NEEDTOKNOW@WXXI.ORG OR WXXI.ORG/NTK.
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LIVE FROM LINCOLN CENTER BROADCAST AND WE RETURN JUNE 5 WITH
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WILL IT WORK TO DISPEL CYNICISM ABOUT THE POLITICAL PROCESS.
WE'LL SEE YOU THEN.