>>
Coming up on "NEED TO KNOW" -- if our hospitals are
in need
of nurses, the answer would seem to lie in our colleges.-
The question is can our colleges meet the demand?-
We'll look at that issue and have the business section with
the
"DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE" all on the way on "NEED
TO KNOW."-
[CAPTIONING MADE POSSIBLE BY THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION]
Captioned by the National-
Captioning Institute-
--www.ncicap.org-- -
>> Thanks for visiting with us.-
I'm MICHAEL CAPUTO.-
It's no secret that the Rochester region and the nation faces
a
shortage of nurses.-
The bureau of labor statistics estimates that there will be
one
million vacant positions for Registered Nurses by the year
2010.-
That's because increased demand for nursing care.-
Now, the formula that contributes to this shortage starts with
the baby Boomer generation, it's aging, meaning more people
in
need of medical care.-
Add in the fact that fewer are entering the nursing field.-
The number of people who took the national licensure exam over
the last seven years has fallen by nearly 1/3 according to a
national council of state boards nursing.-
Now factor in the trend that fewer young people are becoming
nurses.-
The average age of the working Registered Nurse in the nation
is rising and that average age is even older for R.N.'s in our
region according to a study by the finger lakes health systems
agency.-
So, the focus turns to the schools, getting new blood into the
profession, and doing that isn't easy either.-
Some schools, mainly two-year associate institutions like
Monroe community college have waiting lists because of a lack
of physical space and a lack of faculty.-
Other schools, mainly the four-year colleges, are trying to
make their degrees more affordable.-
"NEED TO KNOW's" Alicia Claussell takes a look at
one school
trying to meet a student demand that it currently cannot fill.-
-
>> Trauma alert.-
Level two.-
Trauma alert.-
-
>> They make up the largest group of healthcare providers
in
the U.S.-
They are often the first person you see when you enter a
hospital or clinic for care.-
When needed, they will be there to hold your hand.-
Yet the nursing profession is facing a serious shortage.-
Locally, lack of interest on behalf of students is not the
problem.-
In fact, Monroe community college's nursing program, one of
the
more popular and affordable programs in our region, has a
waiting list.-
The problem lies in lack of faculty and resources to enable
the
education of more nursing students.-
The college, local hospital, and insurers have collaborated
to
releave the crisis.-
-
>> This is not a localized problem in Rochester.-
Across the country there's a shortage of qualified nurses.-
At Monroe community college Mc, we have many more applicants
than we can accept.-
We currently graduate about 100 students a year.-
We'll move up to 130 a year because of the grant we have.-
But unless we see long-term relief, this nation's going to have
a continuing shortage of nurses.-
-
>> Last fall, a commitment of $1 million over a five-year
period was made to Monroe community college's nursing program.-
The money will be used for subsidizing the cost of educating
a
nursing student, which is more expensive than educating your
average student at M.C.C.-
-
>> The average student at Monroe community college is
like
$6,300.-
The average liberal arts student is more like $5,000.-
And nursing student, it costs us nearly $16,000 per year.-
-
>> Careful of your feet.-
-
>> This summer Melissa fox is working as a nanny, one
of three
jobs she works to save money for her first semester in nursing
school this fall at Nazareth college.-
After attempting to enter the nursing program at two different
more affordable school, she had opted to pay more if it meant
getting into sooner.-
-
>> I applied back in November and decided to start taking
classes while I waited to find out if I got in.-
I took a class and they put me on the pending list, meaning
based on the grade on the class you're taking, we'll maybe
admit you or not admit you.-
Soon after that, I got a letter probably a month later saying
that I was number 29 on the wait list.-
Which, it's not bad, but it's -- I didn't want to wait
anymore.-
Ever since I figured this is what I wanted to do, I've been
waiting six months to do this, if not a year.-
-
>> The million-dollar contribution from local hospitals
and
insurers to Monroe community college will be used to increase
faculty, another factor playing a big part in the shortage.-
-
>> The shortage of nursing faculty goes right along with
the
shortage of nursing that the nation is experiencing right now.-
Even the programs are trying to produce more nurses to work
at
the bedside.-
You can only educate so many students with a limited number
of
faculty.-
So, we and other schools across the country are actively trying
to recruit younger members of our profession into the role of
faculty educator.-
-
>> A significant deterrence of teaching is money.-
The American association of colleges of nursing reported in
2002 and 2003 that the average salary of a nurse practitioner
with a master's degree working in a private practice was
$69,400 compared to a faculty person who earned less.-
Students on waiting lists.-
Faculties looking to train and retrain nurses.-
What about those in the profession?-
How are they affected, and how is the quality of care
compromised?-
Patricia Witzel is the head of nursing at Strong Memorial
Hospital.-
She says the hospital's nursing staff has increased but keep
upping with the demand is challenging.-
-
>> We have worked hard to recruit and be successful in
our
recruitment.-
This year we've recruited over 200 nurses, and one of the
biggest problems is the need for nurses continues to grow, and
we have added over about 50 positions just since the beginning
of this year through new programs and expanded programs.-
So, keeping up with the demand is probably more the problem
today than it is recruitment.-
-
>> The question on everyone's mind -- what will a nursing
shortage mean in terms of quality of care?-
-
>> I think it's been proven that R.N. staff, higher level
of
R.N. staff leads to better quality.-
So, you know, the reciprocal of that is if you don't have
enough R.N.'s it will affect the quality of patient care.-
You know, all other things being equal.-
So, I think it's important that we come up with new ways and
creative ways to continue to expand the R.N. market so that
we
have adequate numbers of R.N.'s to take care of patients.-
-
>> Just a followup to the last comment.-
An American Hospital Association study last year stated that
over 1-7 hospitals across the nation reported severe R.N.
vacancy rates, 20% or more.-
Now, to continue this conversation in studio, we have Linda
Baier, past president of the Genesee valley nurses association,
Marilyn Dollinger, full professor of nursing at St. John Fisher
college.-
Thank you both for being here today.-
-
>> Thank you.-
-
>> I do want to follow up on -- I mean, I think the bottom
line
for people who are watching is what does it mean for the level
of care when I go into the hospital?-
The question I have is Patricia Witzel talked about that --
handling the shortage right now.-
How close are we to where facilities won't be able to handle
the shortage and care gets compromised?-
-
>> I think that's a very complicated question, mike.-
And I can appreciate what you're trying to uncover.-
I think as long as a professional is looking at it, how close
are we to becoming critical in situations.-
Part of the profession is how can we help our nurses do the
best they can in their clinical settings as well as be safe
in
their clinical settings, because one of the problems with not
having enough nurses working in clinical settings, it becomes
a
danger to the person in the hospital and we don't want that
to
happen.-
-
>> What do you mean, "a danger"?-
-
>> Well, R.N.'s in particular are needed in hospital settings
as well as all clinical settings, hospitals, nursing homes,
a
clinical health setting, to assess the patients and the
residents, to assess their clients so that we can find out
what's happening and make sure that they're receiving the
appropriate care that they need.-
And if there aren't enough R.N.'s available to do that in any
clinical setting, then the patient becomes -- has a potential
of a hazard in care.-
The hospitals don't want to see it, the nurses definitely don't
want to see it.-
We're looking at new legislation within New York State that
is
being brought forth as to how we can help nurses work safely
in
situations that there aren't enough nurses.-
And I know everybody's recruiting.-
It's hard to say how soon are we going to find ourselves at
critical shortages?-
-
>> Are we already there I guess that's what I'm asking.-
-
>> I think we are already there.-
It's a tribute to nurses there that they've been able to hold
the quality of care in as many situations as they can.-
There's a quality of assurance about failure to rescue.-
It's a term I like because it gives you some insight into one
of the most important things that nurses do, and that is they
prevent things from happening.-
That's tough to measure when you're doing your job well and
you
are adequately staffed.-
That's probably one of the reasons historically nursing care
hasn't shown up in statistics and numbers that it should.-
But in its absence, it's quite evident, and that's what the
nursing research is looking at right now, saying we can measure
that patients get sicker, they have more complications, they
die, they are readmitted to the hospital after discharge when
you don't have adequate -- -
>> In other words, failure to rescue, we're talking about
a
situation where they're preventing further complications,
illnesses.-
-
>> Right.-
>> They're there to prevent that.-
-
>> They're catching people from plunging down that precipice
when things start to go wrong.-
And you really need a professional to do that.-
The support staff don't have the skills, education, and
knowledge to do that.-
Really experienced nurses walk into a patient's room and some
people think it's intuition.-
I don't happen to believe it's intuition.-
It's a very finely tuned set of assessment skills but they can
pick up in an instant something is not right, figure it out
and
take the appropriate action.-
>> You talked about the more experienced nurses, but there's
also a problem with the young, in terms of getting the young
interested.-
Why aren't more young people interested in the profession, do
you think?-
-
>> There are multiple reasons behind that.-
So many more professions have opened up to women than there
ever used to be.-
When I unfortunately was at that point of going into my
profession, the options were very limited.-
Fortunately, I was one of those people that had always wanted
to be a nurse and it was great to go right into that
profession.-
But nowadays, we have business and engineering, etc., so many
more professions available to women.-
And I think there's a lack of understanding sometimes on our
children's part as to what nursing does.-
And I think that's partly the way the profession is still
represented.-
How have you seen nursing presented to you in our -- -
>> Talk a little more about that.-
-
>> Well, if you think about how entertainment as besetted
nursing.-
We're getting a much better perception of nursing than we used
to.-
But you look at films.-
One of the famous nurses is nurse ratchet.-
Nobody likes that.-
And a lot of people relate to that.-
Things today are more realistic than they used to be.-
Even soap operas play a negative view of nurses.-
Nurses aren't that type of person.-
>> One of the things that is the most meaningful, any
individuals who have had -- who have been patients, had family
members who have been patient, young people who have been
treated for a variety of chronic illnesses, people that get
inside the healthcare system and interact with nurses and
receive care from nurses, they get it.-
They have a good picture of what is involved.-
I would say a number of students we get are there pause of
personal experience.-
We just have to do a better job of marketing and helping people
understand.-
-
>> I want to point out that this study done from the finger
lakes health systems agency, the collaborative reported and
said this is a distressing thing that the youngest nurses in
the field are reporting the highest levels of dissatisfaction.-
Again, why do you think -- talk about that and why do you think
that is?-
-
>> One of the things -- part of that observation is the
most
satisfied nurses are young nurses in critical care units.-
I think part of it is they getting certainly a good, solid
nursing education at the basic level, but they're being
challenged by the healthcare system to really function at a
level that's -- their education hasn't prepared them for, and
that's a huge source of frustration.-
The other big thing is starting salaries aren't bad.-
Every time we have a nursing shortage, salaries get bumped up,
and it's really not bad for college graduates coming out at
this point.-
The big thing is you max out on your earning potential pretty
quickly.-
Kids see that and look at other professions.-
-
>> I want to bring up the associate degree.-
M.C.C.'s R. Thomas Flynn during our interview with him said
an
associate degree can get people into that profession quicker
and they can compete with people who get the four-year degree.-
Is that true?-
Do you agree?-
-
>> Well, there is the fact that, yes, they come into the
profession quick e but like Marilyn was saying, they don't
necessarily have the knowledge base that you would if you had
a
bachelor's degree to help you move forward in the profession.-
They find themselves frustrated.-
Plus, I find many of the new graduates that we're dealing with,
they're wonderful people, but they need a lot of mentoring to
become a competent professional in the sense that they need
to
feel secure in themselves, and we want them to feel secure,
and
that takes time and money.-
You can't get a new graduate and just expect them to jump right
in and swim.-
A competent I.C.U. nurse or cardiac care nurse.-
-
>> But if we've got a shortage, the first order of business
is
let's get more people in there.-
Right?-
-
>> That's part of the problem.-
There are shortages of nurses every eight to 10 years.-
The short-term nurse is crank them out as fast as you can and
no one has looked at the long-term problem.-
I don't think anybody would argue that the research shows we
need more bachelor and masters and doctorally prepared nurses
in this country.-
The function in the healthcare system, to give the type of care
we do.-
A.D. nurses are great.-
They came out with the same beginning set of beginning skills
ha the baccalaureate nurses do but the potential is different.-
The licensing exam levels A.D.-level knowledge and it has to
because they take the same licensing exams.-
Yes, they can compete head to head there.-
But the baccalaureate knowledge base that you get if you go
through a four-year program is measured at the college and
designated by granting of your degree.-
-
>> But I would think, and I'm a layman saying this, but
I would
think the best education you're going to get is in the field,
working, doing the job rather than in the classroom.-
Again, this is a layman saying this.-
-
>> Yeah.-
Well, we have equal if not more hours in our four-year
program.-
-
>> Is that right?-
-
>> Oh, yeah.-
-
>> You would agree with that too?-
-
>> Oh, yes.-
-
>> I think one of the things I thought was very interesting
during Alicia Claussell doing a lot of the work on this, she
talked about high-tech versus high-touch.-
What are we talking about when we talk about the high-tech
needs of nursing?-
Is that a growing thing for nursing?-
-
>> It is amazing how technologically oriented nursing
has
become.-
The advancings we're seeing in medicine, we have to be familiar
with the equipment that's out there.-
I work in the nursing home, and it's amazing how we're moving
into more high technology and yet we have a high touch because
that's typically what we focus on.-
But this technology is moving forward in our areas and it's
amazing.-
Your new graduate, they want to be competent, they want to feel
like they have the ability to keep up with the experienced
nurse, so of course they're going to want to focus more on the
high-tech because that's where comfort level is.-
And it takes time to learn how to have comfort with working
with an individual and having that interpersonal relationship.-
So, as Marilyn was saying, you know, it's wonderful to graduate
and have that experience of a student and be able to talk with
the instructor and be able to go back and forth, but when you
get out there in the real world, you may not have the mentor,
again, who's going to be there with you as much as you would
like to see them with you to help you work through issues of
dealing with individuals.-
It's tricky stuff.-
-
>> And we can't settle for high-tech or high-touch.-
We need both.-
Nursing is a professional role, highly complex.-
It takes a real high level of functioning.-
-
>> Are you lacking in the high-tech area?-
-
>> No.-
-
>> You're saying there's an easier comfort level dealing
with
the toke nothing than with -- -
>> Absolutely.-
You can teach monkeys how to do high-tech stuff.-
With the computer systems we have today, a lot of it would
appear to a layperson coming in to be very complicated, and
it
is, but you need to understand the physiology, the computer
aspects of it.-
Once you have that knowledge base, the functioning, the
equipment does a lot of work that we used to do in other ways.-
That's the whole point of high-tech.-
The high-touch stuff is equally as important.-
When I talk to nurse manager and say if you could have me do
one thing better with our students, what would you want me to
do with our students?-
They say better communication with patients.-
No problem about high-tech, using the equipment.-
That comes.-
And if you don't get it in your program, you get it very
quickly working on the units and in the institutions.-
It's the higher-level skills, people skills, communication that
are where the growth opportunity is.-
-
>> I've got to ask this question.-
I have a couple minutes left.-
You talked earlier, Linda, about women having more choices for
careers.-
Where are the men?-
How bad are we in terms of recruiting men and recruiting people
who reflect the community?-
-
>> Mm-hmm.-
-
>> Do you encourage your sons or friends of -- -
>> I'm going to do it now.-
-
>> It's a tough sell.-
There was an article in the paper about the rhino's player who
is a nurse.-
-
>> Yes.-
-
>> About eight years we had Tim ash, a rhino's player,
was in
our baccalaureate program, played for the Rhinos.-
He is the poster child for recruitment.-
It's a tough sell.-
-
>> Linda?-
Talk about minorities too, because isn't there a problem, too,
of reflecting the community in the field?-
-
>> Well, we are -- as a profession I think the reflection
of
the community for minorities and men in nursing is low but
we're seeing a growth in that area.-
Part of it, again, is understanding what the profession of
nursing does.-
You talk to some of the individuals who are minority folks and
ask them, what's your perception of nursing?-
They see it sometimes as subservient.-
And that's sometimes not something they want to go into.-
That ice understandable.-
We as a profession need to become much more verbal about what
are we doing and how are we doing it so they have a better
understanding.-
Getting men into nursing is a tricky process.-
They're seeing that men don't have a real clear understanding
and as a profession I think we've done some damage to ourselves
as well, because we've kind of labeled people who come into
the
nursing profession, as well.-
Maybe they aren't really -- you know, a guy's a guy.-
-
>> Right.-
>> But we need guy-guys, too, so it's important to get
both.-
-
>> I really want to thank both of you for being here today.-
You can add to this conversation.-
Either on the web at wxxi.org/ntk
or by email at needtoknow@wxxi.org.
Now here's the THE BUSINESS
SECTION FOR "THE
DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
joining
us is ELLEN ROSEN, EDITOR OF THE BUSINESS SECTION FOR
THE "DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."-
Ellen, hello.-
>> Hi, mike.-
>> Talk about the building giveaway on main street and
what it
might mean for downtown development.-
-
>> Developer max Ferris is volunteering to donate through
the
cunny the gateway center and building at 34 St. Paul street.-
The buildings are adjacent to where the transit center is
supposed to be.-
The transit center folks say they're not interested in it right
now.-
-
>> They're not?-
-
>> That's what they said in this morning's paper.-
They have money invested in engineering plans and are not
interested but they did concede there could be some links
development with it.-
-
>> Right.-
-
>> Basically, that building is dilapidated and has been
on the
market for a long time.-
It's worth more demolished for the land than the building
itself.-
It's a donation for the county.-
-
>> Am I right that the county is going to try to involve
the
city in what they might do with this?-
Or what -- who decides what to do with this?-
-
>> I don't know if discussions have gotten that far yet.-
This is strickly between Mr. Ferris and the county.-
It still has to be approved by the county legislature.-
It includes 30 acres of land as well.-
So, the county has to say yes or no to it first, and I imagine
they'll decide from there where they want to go.-
-
>> And Blue Cross has been out of there for years.-
-
>> It is a tenant in there.-
-
>> Our Kodak earnings report will be coming out.-
>> Wednesday.-
-
>> Wednesday.-
-
>> Yes.-
-
>> Talk about what we might hear.-
-
>> Well, the news from Kodak is likely not to be good.-
They warned last month they would not meet earlier estimates
which had been something like 60 to 80 cents a share.-
They're now saying five to 25 cents a share, and they're
blaming it on the economy, SARS, the war, on travel plans, and
people are just not taking as many pictures.-
Other analysts are saying maybe it's not just that.-
Maybe it's more to do with digital and the fact people aren't
buying as much film because they're buying digital cameras but
they're not buying film.-
-
>> We were warned about this.-
It's not going to be a surprise.-
-
>> No.-
It won't be a surprise.-
Kodak came out in June and said they were lowering estimates.-
They gave a warning.-
And carp said he's expecting this through 2003.-
-
>> And we always ask this question, but the workforce
probably
looks at this with great interest.-
-
>> They look at it with great trepidation because Kodak
says
they will greatly have to accelerate cost cut, and layoffs is
always one of the first things that happens.-
Kodak hasn't said anything about layoffs.-
They said wait till next Wednesday.-
But the analysts are saying that's likely.-
-
>> Kodak had long ago tried to tap the China market.-
And you had a great story a couple days ago, chuck Schumer
talking to the media, talking about the economic woes and
pointing the finger.-
Tell us what he said about China and their policies.-
-
>> What he's complaining about is China has a national
policy
that keeps currency fixed at a low rate which makes it cheaper
to import our goods than it is to export our own, cutting in
on
manufacturing.-
It makes our products more expensive and makes it more
difficult on the market for our products.-
One example is Kodak itself, it's less expensive to make the
single-use cameras on China than on Lee road so they closed
the
factory.-
That's what Schumer is complaining about.-
They've been complaining about this on all levels.-
Alan Greenspan is complaining saying they can't do this
indefinitely.-
-
>> It still remains something people talk about.-
That's a problem.-
You know?-
-
>> Yeah.-
This is really -- it's part of that, but what they're talking
about is the currency issue that makes it so cheap to buy and
produce these.-
But it's also the cost of American labor.-
-
>> What's coming up?-
-
>> On Sunday we're looking at the Hispanic boom, the rising
influence of Hispanics in the local business community.-
-
>>
Ellen, thank you very much.-
We want your feedback on "NEED TO KNOW."-
Give us our comments by visiting wxxi.org/ntk
or email us
at needtoknow@wxxi.org.-
Next week we turn our attention to the gay and lesbian
community in Rochester.-
How has the movement changed, especially with all that has
happened in recent weeks?-
Regarding America's attitudes towards motorcycle sexuality.-
We'll see you then.-
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