On
the next "Need to Know" we look at political members.-
There are a flurry of them.-
Are we paying attention with what is being communicated?-
We will have the weekly business section of the Democrat and
chronicle all on the way on "Need to Know."-
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[Captioning Made Possible by the U.S. Department of Education]-
(For "Need to Know")-
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>> Thanks for joining us.-
I'm Michael Caputo.-
Welcome to another program looking at election 2003.-
Are you getting your fill of political ads, getting enough
"Please vote for me" fliers.-
On the internet you may be getting messages from parties to
join rallies or from candidates to visit their websites.-
As we near the home stretch in this year we are once again
introduced to the ever present political advertisement and
there's no greater medium than television.-
It is mated by thal lands for better campaigns that last year
more than one billion dollars was spent on political
advertising on television.-
That was the year that included congressional and state
legislative races.-
Last year New York broke a record for spending in a single race
for governor.-
In Rochester more than four million dollars was spent in 2002.-
This year is local and yet hundreds of thousands of dollars
will be spent getting out messages through the airwaves.-
Bill Johnson and Maggie brooks have spent about $250,000 on
political ads and that is according to the last filings in
early October.-
We will talk about how that's televised messages are being
delivered.-
But first we will look at the basic form of getting out the
message, one that some say may be on the way out while others
insist is the only way to go.-
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>> Just lake families working hard to make end meet, a
New York
state report shows Monroe county conviction rate is 95%.-
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>> For most of us this is the level of contact we are
used to
seeing from a politician.-
-
>> For some trying to get votes there's only one way to
get the
word out.-
By knocking on doors, leaving literature,.-
Hopefully it won't blow out.-
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>> And press the flesh.-
-
>> Thank you.-
Running for city council.-
-
>> Once this kind of door to door campaigning was a
politician's bred and -- bread and Burt.-
Now it only practiced by local candidates such as Bob Stevenson
and Luis Perez, the man who wants to unseat him.-
This process literally means repeating the same message over
and over.-
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>> I would appreciate your support.-
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>> I would like your support in November.-
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>> It means trying to engage the voter at the door but
make
sure that encounter is brief.-
-
>> The information is on the back of the card.-
One thing is not there we started we had 620 cops now there
are
707.-
We have had 87 police since I got in so we have been adding
every year.-
So the ratio is about one to 310.-
There is one -- -
>> Is more scientific, computer printouts give street
lists to
tell the candidate which households have voters and which ones
to ignore.-
-
>> We go to people who vote.-
We don't care what party.-
They are voters we will knock on the door and let they will
know they have a choice and consider us.-
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>> The appeal to the voter, however, is as old as when
people
began asking for votes.-
-
>> They want to see the body and shake their hands.-
They want to know all the issues but are you a good guy and
can
I trust you.-
That seems to be the whole motive.-
Do you have a background that is lousy to put my trust in the
future in you.-
-
>> There are the hazards of walking house to house.-
The wobblely stoop.-
-
>> Be careful of some of the stairs.-
I put my leg through the third step one time.-
You get a bloody leg out of that.-
-
>> There are the dogs that are a bit more aggressive than
these.-
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>> Sounds like a big dog.-
-
>> In my younger days I have some dog stories.-
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>> Door to door politicing is slow, arduous.-
And when you ad to television radio the advent of the internet
and Worldwide Web, it becomes clear that dependence on door
to
do door is waning.-
Some parties do emphasize it as this man did.-
-
>> Once the parties had strong organizations and they
would
distribute the literature.-
That organization doesn't exist any more.-
-
>> But for the local candidate with little money this
step by
step approach is the only way to go.-
-
>> There's a lot of different ways.-
You use all of the tools, but there's nothing more powerful
than shaking somebody's hands and looking them in the eyes and
asking them to support you.-
You ask the question specifically and wait for an answer and
they say yes, it is almost a sure thing, you know.-
-
>> With us in the studio are two people that know about
pounding the pavement and dealing with dogs, Sean Sean
Republican of Monroe county representing Webster and wade
Norwood, democratic city councilmember who worked on a number
of other campaigns.-
We will get to the dog stories later butters I have to ask
about to door campaigning.-
Am I wrong that it separates the winners from the losers or
the
men from the boys, I don't know.-
Whamp you want to call it.-
But that is not easy to do is it?-
-
>> No.-
And I think you are probably describing it well.-
You cannot be in mine a very serious candidate unless you are
willing to get out there and to that.-
And it isn't fun.-
There are plenty of nights you would rather be home or Sunday
afternoon you would rather watch football but it measures the
electrical of commitment that you have to do it each day for
months at a time.-
-
>> I was going to ask you every single day so day 29 of
the
29th day of doing this don't you get a little bit like I can't
make this pitch any more?-
-
>> I think for the candidate, I would say day 28 it is
the
Magic of a moment at the door, a connection that you make with
the voter, the ability to really sway and influence or be
swayed and influenced in return that makes day 29 exciting.-
I think it is much worse the candidates doing the door to door
campaigning.-
We also admire the volunteers who work with us and get to live
those moments like through the campaign.-
But it is their dedication that makes the process meaningful.-
-
>> You talk about day 28 or day 29.-
In a way you are being kind.-
Depending on what office you are returning for you mentioned
I
ran for state assembly, thanks for rushing salt in my wounds,
I
actually started in the middle of June and went every day with
the exception of two days over Labor Day weekend that I did
take off.-
But every day from the middle of June until election day.-
And day 28 or 29 was a distant memory.-
It goes a lot longer than that.-
-
>> I have been told when you look at door to door campaigning
and its influence that it is shrinking.-
The circle of influence is shrinking.-
And the way it was told is an inverse relationship because the
districts here are expanding.-
Look at the congressional district.-
It is Rochester going across Niagara county to Buffalo.-
This is not a place you go door it door.-
The question is, when is that true, and is door to door
campaigning waning?-
-
>> Mike, I think what undergirds all of that is how important
is that door to done contact, how important is it, is the
personal contact, to the vig governor and the energy of
democracy?-
-
>> But is it losing?-
-
>> As we have become a more numerous society and as the
districts have become larger, as we have become more of a
technological media reliant society, yes, we have lost a sense
of the real primary importance of human contact in the
political process.-
-
>> I don't know that I agree with that.-
I think it is just as important as it ever was.-
The problem is that you have to look at it in the context of
different races.-
There are only so many doors that you can get to over a
specific period of time.-
If you are looking at a congressional race, that percentage
of
actual voters will be quite small.-
For a county legislative race or city council or own council
or
even state assembly if you work hard you can get to a fairly
significant percentage of voters.-
Not even a percentage of voters will turn out but a percentage
of people who will talk to friends and say you know who stopped
by my door last night, so and so.-
So I think it is just as important.-
It is just depending on what office you are running for.-
It may not be as easy.-
-
>> Even in the county legislature if you are running for,
say,
or wade's position in the city, houses are next to each other
and you can go boom, boom, boom and I wade does it very
efficiently.-
If you are running for county legislature and your seat
includes ago 10 and Parma and Hamlin a it is a long way in
between houses.-
I don't think it is less important, just less practical.-
-
>> It hasn't lost its importance but rather we have lost
an
appreciation for its importance because of the fact that there
are other media for contact that appear to be more efficient
and that we rely on.-
-
>> Do you mean the people in the political process have
lost
their appreciation do you think?-
-
>> I think we as Americans and the handlers.-
I think it becomes more meaningful to us because it is easier
for us to find out who the guy is by watching television as
opposed to leaving our homes and going to the point where that
person is actually to listen to them and find out what they
are
saying.-
It is easier for us that we have computers now, we remember
when they were not part of the political process.-
Putting together a mail something a lot easier.-
So it is easier to rely on mail than to go to the direct human
contact.-
-
>> Talk about how the countywide candidates and their
dependence on television has changed from 10 or 15 years ago.-
Maybe it hasn't.-
My guess is it definitely seems to have changed.-
What do you think, Sean?-
-
>> It has and television gives you legitimacy there is
a saying
and depending on what office you are returning for, if you are
not on television, you are not perceived as being a real
legitimate candidate.-
-
>> Yet so many look down on the negative ads, the tone
of the
ads.-
But if you are not there, you are not there at all?-
-
>> Well, you are not because telling vision is extraordinarily
expensive.-
It is painfully expensive.-
And in order to get on television what that means is
theoretically will are people who think you have a shot at
winning.-
The losers have a very difficult time raising money.-
And if you are perceived as somebody that doesn't have a chance
of winning, you are not going to to get the money.-
So if you are on television that means that are there are
people that think you have a shot at winning.-
-
>> In addition to,, to being on telling vision of it is
also
the presence of of things like your show.-
Back when we had three major TV stations and they went off at
a
certain hour and didn't colonel on, there were not a lot of
opportunities for this type of conversation of current
affairs.-
Now with the explosion of outlets, it is just as important for
elected officials or those seeking office to be on shows such
as this.-
-
>> Put in the room the planners for the county executive
candidates and they will talk about how are we getting the
message out what would they lay down, one, two, three, four?-
-
>> They would first lay out what the issues are and trying
to
frame my candidate is in the right position on the issues as
opposed to the other candidates.-
Secondly, how do we communicate that.-
What are the actions.-
-
>> What do they say.-
For county executive how do they say this is how we are getting
the message out?-
-
>> I'm afraid I don't understand the question.-
-
>> What is their plan of action for getting that message
out
where somebody is running for county executive.-
Put us in that room and -- -
>> I would say the plan of action for getting the message
out
would be to identify what are the, for the challenger, bill
Johnson, where are the failings of the incumbent
administration, how do they get tied into his opposition.-
And I think for Maggie brooks it is more of a question of
trying to figure out where are the voters looking and how does
she distinguish herself from bill Johnson's record.-
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>> Do you think that is on TV first?-
TV is number one how we will communicate and everything else
is
secondary?-
-
>> Well, first of all, they don't let me in the room for
that.-
And my guess is first you have to start with the candidate and
figure out what the message is.-
That depends on the candidate.-
What does the candidate believe.-
What does Maggie brooks believe, what is her approach to
government going to be?-
Then you take a budget and this is what we can expect to spend
and expect to raise.-
How can we take what Maggie brooks has to say -- -
>> Money driven.-
-
>> No question.-
Doesn't change the message, just changes how it is delivered.-
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>> I have to ask this as a question about the internet
because
we are looking at Howard dean and he has moved up in the ranks
and it is all about getting on the internet, getting the
message out through the internet, getting people together by
the internet.-
And that is something that can work in the local level?-
-
>> I don't think the power of the internet has filtered
down
yet in terms of reaching the electorate.-
I think that is what we reached in terms of talking internal
to
campaigns and reaching volunteers.-
I don't know if I would necessarily argue Howard dean the
internet has catapulted him.-
I think that that is a good example of what television has done
in the dean campaign's use of television in order to really
communicate a message of dean being a different person.-
-
>> But they have all of these people to come together
-- -
>> There's not been politician coverage of that.-
-
>> So, internet internally is helping the campaign, helping
them communicate?-
-
>> That's probably true on the national level.-
I don't think so much on the local level.-
At the local level if you don't have a website you sort of look
like you are out of step or out of touch.-
How much utilization they get is not all that impressive.-
And dean makes a big deal of how much he raised through his
internet site.-
The fact of the matter is it is a pit tans.-
If you look at how much a presidential campaign needs I think
it is all P.R.-
I think he raised a half million from the entire nation and
that doesn't take you far.-
-
>> Et cetera let's talk about some of the current messages
out
there and we will give you one and if we can for second we will
put it up.-
The Johnson campaign and just recently you may have seen this
ad.-
Look.-
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>> Maggie brooks' campaign promises to sound like Magic.-
She is promised to solve the county budget crisis with no cuts
in service.-
Promised to lower tax rates and creating jobs, no problem.-
Can we believe her?-
Well as Catholic county clerk the fees went up 66%, licenses
dropped 17%, she did have jobs in her office.-
Hiring more people that do less work.-
And she promises things that won't solve tough problems.-
Vote bill Johnson to get you're county back on track track feel
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>> This is a paid advertisement that just started running
and
this is what I would think you would call a negative ad.-
Am I wrong?-
Is it effective, one?-
But, two, is it, is the message inflated in order to get it
across and does that hurt accuracy?-
-
>> It does hurt accuracy.-
You can go back and forth on what is negative and not
negative.-
To me the most important thing is how accurate is it, how
truthful is it?-
Is it misleading in any wayment and I could talk probably from
now until the end of the show about how that is -- -
>> Give me one.-
-
>> It says fees, it has gone up.-
She doesn't get to set those.-
The vast majority of them are set by local governments and
state governments and it is her job to collect it.-
So, to suggest that an increase this fees is the responsibility
of the county clerk is in many instances just false.-
-
>> Talk about that ad a little bit.-
Do you have to be that -- that is a fairly aggressive 30
seconds.-
Would you not agree?-
-
>> I think that the purpose of a political ad is to carry
the
conversation forward.-
The measure of an ad in terms of positive or negative is does
it carry the conversation forward with regard to policy or with
regard to person and person mality.-
Insofar as this ads continues and carries the conversation
forward with respect to policy and governing it is
appropriate.-
-
>> Would you agree, Sean?-
-
>> I would in certain respects.-
I think somebody's record is fair game.-
If somebody is an incumbent you should go the record and talk
about it and portray it in the light that you see fit.-
But it ought to be whether you think what she has done is a
good idea or a bad idea.-
And to take facts that are substantially misleading and include
them as a way to tear down the incumbent is not positive.-
-
>> Negative ads work.-
You hear that all the time.-
Do they work in the long run?-
And there is a sin any simple.-
Do they work in the long run this they work in the short run.-
-
>> I think absolutely people react to what they hear in
the
commercials and in the public discourse.-
But I guess my conversation would really be more of what we
have, what we can not afford to do is make the medium or
political conversation and debate the same medium in which we
sell products.-
There really needs to be and both Sean and I find, I think,
a
real critical pressing need for the direct conversation with
the voters without the interference of the medium.-
-
>> But it works.-
It is easier to put on an ad for 30 seconds.-
You won't get that continued of impact from a direct
conversation going door to door.-
-
>> No and when you say does it work in the long run I'm
not
sure what you mean in the long run.-
In politics the long run is election day.-
And the fact of the matter is there is also a thing this
politics if you are explaining you are losing.-
So you can throw out an allegation that is supposedly based
in
fact, the other side has to try to explain how it not fair and
not accurate and the person who has run the ad has scored
points but not done the public a service.-
-
>> I have about a minute left.-
I have to take you back to the dogs.-
You say five times in one campaign you were bitten by a dog.-
Is that true -
>> Yes, in mean 95 my first race I was bitten five different
tiles of.-
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>> Were you carrying around dog treats?-
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>> I probably should have.-
When I kept running later.-
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>> Wade, any dog bites?-
-
>> I have not been bitten.-
I have been kinder to the electorate and the dogs than Sean
has.-
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>> The postman schooled us on how to deal with dogs.-
I want to thank you both for having this conversation.-
This can continue on the web write us as wxxi.org/ntk
.-
Email us at needtoknow@wxxi.org.-
We also want your phone calls.-
At our number at 258-0250.-
Now
let's turn to the business section with "THE
DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE."
>>
With us is Ellen Rosen how are you.-
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>> I'm fine.-
Are you.-
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>> I'm good.-
Third quarters results in Kodak how do they do -
>> They were down but they used the opportunity to show
that
this is really, used it as fuel to explain the business plan
for the future, that consumer film is continuing to decline
but
they are making big inroads in digital cameras and equipment.-
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>> So, again film sales down 12%?-
-
>> 12%.-
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>> Can digital sales up what?-
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>> It is profitable for the first time.-
-
>> So this is making a statement about the future of --
do you
think one had to do with the other, in other words, the news
that came out earlier, do you think that they predicated that
on what they knew was coming down the pike or the other way
around?-
They saw the results and said we have to make the move?-
-
>> Any say they saw results a while ago that the film
market
was declining faster than they earlier thought and that is what
precipitated the move to the new business strategy.-
But they have been predicting this result and they beat Wall
Street estimates this quarter.-
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>> And I always like to ask about the employment picture.-
What did we learn about Kodak and the employment picture -
>> We didn't learn anything about their employment.-
They tend to only use year end employment numbers.-
They said they would do layoffs and we know they are happening
on a week by week business basis but they didn't give think
figures.-
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>> Xerox also had results?-
-
>> Yes, they did well.-
Had another profitable quarter and expect a profitable full
year which is good news for the company and analysts were
pleased.-
I think they are well into their turnaround.-
A little bit of a concern, a question mark there is the company
decided to add 30 to 40 million dollars to the restructuring
charges and one wonders if there are more layoffs.-
They said they would speed up the restructuring in the fourth
quarter around often restructuring and layoffs are synonymous.-
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>> And there were no specifics with that?-
-
>> Actually no specifics of how many layoffs.-
But we know they are down 100 employees.-
That is from three months ago.-
-
>> What drove the sales for Xerox?-
They had a pretty good quarter.-
New color equipment?-
-
>> Yes, they have been strong in the color sales some
of highly
specialized high end products are the ones doing well.-
Sales were flat in some other areas, actually down in some
areas.-
But in color sales things were brisk.-
-
>> High end publishing machines?-
-
>> Yes, the igin 3.-
-
>> Talk about what occurred during the week and what fuel
cell
technology might mean.-
-
>> It was revealed a plan that fuel cells are one area
they
want to focus for developing the local economy and they
released a survey they had done by a group from Deloitte and
Touche which says we have three of the four things to happen
to
create a strong market in fuel cells, the company here that
does it, technology, we have the workforce.-
What we are lacking now is lacking some sort of plan to make
it
happen, everybody come together to make it happen and that is
what G.R.E. says it will do.-
-
>> What are they calling us, perhaps a hydrogen village
down
the line?-
-
>> Right -
>> The upper falls area of Roff.-
Is this something in the next few years or well down the road
for fuel cells?-
-
>> It's hard to say but I believe that the people are
trying to
move quickly on this for a variety of reasons.-
The auto manufacturers are excited about getting this kind of
possibility.-
The issue right now is really some of it is in the fuel cell
area but another component is hydrogen which is volatile and
difficult to dispense so even if you had a hydrogen fuel car
it
is not easy to create a fueling station.-
-
>> And then us getting together and marketing ourselves
and
that's something we have been talking about for a long time
-
>> Yes, there's what they were trying to do the other
day.-
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>> What's coming up Sunday?-
-
>> I have the second installment of Rochester at work
are we
look at the various industries that employ the workforce and
this particular week we are looking at the tooling and
machining industry.-
-
>> Something that is probably in a little bit of Jeopardy,
manufacturing has always been taking a bounce.-
-
>> Manufacturing has gone so has tooling because that
is tied
together but the industry has found creative ways to pull
itself together and I believe they will beat it.-
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>> Thank you very much for being with us again.-
We have two reminders.-
First WXXI will present a documentary on one of our leading
business persons, B. Thomas Golisano Sunday night at 7:00 and
WXXI will present a series of free air time programs Sunday
afternoon at 12:30.-
Next week on "Need to Know" we talk about the last
days of the
political campaign, a Halloween treat I'm sure.-
Please join us.-
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