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>> Coming up on "Need to Know",, the fast ferry is here and we
will have to show if it can succeed.-
Will gambling be a way to raise revenue?-
We will look at how that has become a new source of revenue in
the state.-
We will have the Democrat and chronicle and look at the strives
made in new industry here in Rochester.-
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>> When the gaming opportunities expands there's going to be a
growing number of people adversely affected.-
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[Captioning Made Possible by the U.S. Department of Education]-
(For "Need to Know")-
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>> Thanks for joining us.-
I'm Michael Duwalbee.-
About a month ago Rochester state lawmakers introduced a bill
to allow video lottery terminals on the newest attraction, the
spirit spirit fast ferry to Toronto.-
For reasons stated in the bill memo to enhance ferry revenue
and attract those undecided about riding the ferry.-
Why not?-
Gambling has become more attractive as a way to fund government
run or supported activity.-
After 9-11 Albany approved terminals for racetracks and bought
that the national lottery Gail power ball.-
This year governor Pataki has called for more video gaming
terminals to fund increasing costs of education and that I
remember the ferry bill currently stalled as lawmakers figure
out how to navigate gambling regulations in the U.S. and
Canada.-
But its lure to the player of instant success has become a
siren song to those looking to raise easy revenue.-
Need to know's Julie Philipp shows us.-
-
>> Wait.-
It is not exactly one of those four letter words.-
But people object to it just the same.-
We want instant photos, coffee, oil changes.-
And lottery payoffs.-
20 years ago instant games were invented.-
Now New York is raking in millions of dollars with the high
tech version of the scratchoff ticket.-
Video lottery terminals being installed at racetracks across
the state.-
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>> I think there's a greater number of people gambling because
of the availability of opportunities and the legitimatization
of the gambling environment by the state.-
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>> People no longer have to sneak around and if you look at O.
T.B.'s versus finger lakes and the kind of class that is
associated with going to finger lakes, there are a number of
people that would not be caught dead in O. T.B. that will go to
the finger lakes, or they will go to a casino pa.-
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>> And in Rochester it doesn't get much classier than this.-
A new $44.5 million fast ferry will be running between
Rochester and Toronto.-
Lawmakers are trying to pass legislation that would put video
lottery terminals or V.L.T.'s inside the ferry.-
It is not a subject Howard Thomas wanted to talk about last
week.-
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>> At this point we are not commenting on V.L.T. at all.-
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>> But they are making plans.-
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>> We are working object that.-
It it is not finalized but it is being worked on.-
It could be a good thing.-
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>> The health association's Raymond Scott predicts the spread
of V.L.T.'s won't stop there.-
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>> When the gambling opportunity expands, then there's always
going to be a growing number of peel that will be adversely
affected.-
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>> Joyce Barrett was once addicted to video poker machines.-
While her husband was working and the children were at school,
she was secretly putting the family into debt, to the tune of
$80,000.-
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>> I became a liar, cheat, thief.-
Nobody that could be trusted.-
I was getting the mail first, I was getting the phone first.-
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>> She says the proliferation of V.L.T.'s along with the
evening of several new casinos in New York and gambling on the
internet add up to a boat load of temptation for problem
gamblers.-
But those who treat the addictions admit that putting V.L.T.'s
in places like the fast ferry is a proven way to raise money,
and lots of it.-
The governor indicates V.L.T.'s could generate up to $2 billion
a year all of which set aside to support education.-
That is a tough argument to beat especially since studies show
the overwhelming majority of people that gamble don't get
hooked.-
So officials from the health association are not making waves
when it comes to the state's increasing reliance on gambling
revenue.-
They are just quietly getting ready to help an increasing
number of gamblers who can't call it quits.-
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>> There are going to be people that will be having a good time
and laughing with each other, but some people will be quite
serious and you will be able to spot them.-
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>> That was Julie Philipp reporting.-
She is the newest member of our news team.-
She has been reporting in the Rochester region the last dozen
years.-
Now to talk about gambling on the ferry and a source are three
members of the legislature.-
Assemblyman Joseph Morelle a Democrat from resigned who
introduced the ferry bill.-
Assemblywoman Susan John a Democrat from Rochester who has
reservations about the proposal.-
And state senator Joseph Robach a Republican from Greece.-
Thanks for being here and I want to start off the bat with
this.-
The V.L.T.'s were there to save racetracks.-
But the fast ferry hasn't started so it seems like there's a
vote of a lack of confidence in the fact that.-
What do you think?-
-
>> I disagree.-
The discussion about expanding the V.L.T. experiment has been
viewed by people as another potential entertainment opportunity
on the ferry, another way to attract some revenue.-
But this not a desperation move.-
It is a way to explore whether or not people who are riding the
ferry will have another chance to do something that interests
them.-
-
>> Mrs. John I want to get at why you have reservations and it
-- does it have anything to do with the fact that we -- you
don't need it on the ferry.-
The ferry will sustain itself -
>> There are so many entertainment options on the ferry and I
think we are excited about it starting out and we are confident
in how successful the ferry will be for the Rochester area.-
In my view the V.L.T.'s are at the track in farmington and
Batavia, and adding this additional place or this entertainment
option is really unnecessary.-
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>> Are you worried the ferry isn't going to be able to sustain
itself?-
-
>> I don't think it a question of worry or not worry.-
We spend a lot of our time trying to enhance economic
development opportunities here and healthcare jobs, high tech
jobs and manufacturing and tooling.-
This is no different.-
We want to make this a tourism hub, a mecca.-
We want to attract people from Toronto.-
Ironically, in New York there's all kinds of gaming
opportunities.-
In Toronto there isn't.-
I think it is an enhancement for those who ride the ferry.-
And I think it is one we should take.-
These economic times we need to Polish every opportunity we
have, whether golf, finger lakes wine, museums and do the best
we can to make these things work as great as possible.-
-
>> I want to make a comment, too, about the comments made by
Raymond Scott.-
The reality is for many people who would perceive that folks in
the low economic scale would be exposed to gaming, this is
something completely different.-
You have to pay the $28 for the round trip ticket.-
That is unlike any other opportunity.-
This is about tourism.-
This is about an additional opportunity for enjoyment and
entertainment on the ferry.-
It is so different than all the other gaming that is being
talked about throughout the state.-
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>> But I noticed in the bill maybe we will bring in some other
people who might not have otherwise tried the ferry.-
So in the sense it is a lure or seems it may be a lure to bring
people in.-
-
>> I think in the sense that as you consider whether you may
drive to Toronto or take the ferry.-
You think the kids may like to watch a movie and sit in the
theatre on the ferry.-
There high speed internet connection.-
So if you are a business person and want to get a couple extra
hours of work, so all of those together form an experience and
this is just one way to enhance it.-
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>> Well, because of those families who will be traveling on the
ferry, and I hope we get at who of families in the area who
will be going over to Toronto this way and Canadian families
coming here but to me having the V.L.T.'s as part of the
experience makes it less of a family experience.-
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>> Less?-
-
>> Well, one of the things certainly we want to appeal to all
of the ridership.-
We insisted or at least I insisted before I agreed to support
the legislation this will be on one floor of that ship.-
It will be only able to be accessed by adults, not children.-
So anyone who doesn't want to be exposed will not are to be and
I think that makes all of the sense in the world.-
There are certainly some people that choose not to do that and
by all means this is not to force or foist it on them but to
create all the ear areas surrounding us have like Monroe county
and Rochester get a piece of that.-
-
>> How much can Monroe county and the city of Rochester enjoy
in terms of proceeds from something like this if there are
V.L.T.'s?-
Do they get any revenue sharing?-
-
>> Not the locality.-
This would go to the state.-
-
>> And education.-
And I think nearly 2/3 of it would go to the state and to
education.-
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>> Can I just so you know, in these games just like everywhere
we are only amending the current legislation to include
something for the Rochester area like the surrounding areas
have from us.-
92% of the money stays with the players.-
8% would be considered profit if you will or excess.-
Out of that, in the current bill, 10% goes to the operators,
10% division of lottery which owns the machines and in this
kiss unlike the racetracks, instead of kitting in the horsemen
the majority goes to fund education.-
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>> I want to change subjects slightly.-
If gambling is, if this kind of gambling can help out the
racetracks, the ferry, why are we limiting this to the ferry or
racetracks?-
We have a minor league ball club, a soccer stadium.-
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>> As I indicated I think there is a distinction to be drawn
with doing gaming on the ferry as opposed to other land-based
casinos.-
I think that if we are going to expand the V.L.T. experience we
ought to make sure there are destinations.-
It shouldn't every corner street with an V.L.T. parlor.-
If we are going to have a handful of V.L. TCAS sib knows or
parlors, there ought to be destinations so we draw tourism.-
I think that has been the case in some community around the
community and others they have basically have it everywhere.-
I think we need to use it in a limited way.-
But I think it can be of benefit.-
And the other thing is the state is involved in licensing
alcohol.-
There are alcoholics.-
There are a number of things that the state participates in
taken to its extreme is bad.-
But I don't think we should assume everyone that is exposed
will become an addict or problem gambler.-
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>> Are you influenced by this?-
-
>> My concern is that the ferry is a unique opportunity for the
region and by opening the door to it becoming a gaming venue
means that makes it less unique.-
That makes it less of the special creation that the ferry
project started out to be.-
The beautiful terminal that has been put up at the lake, the
way that the businesses are benefiting from the ferry
experience already, even before the ferry has launched, I think
all of that gets changed if the ferry becomes a gaming
vehicle.-
-
>> How do you think it will be changed?-
-
>> And V.L.T.'s may be the first step toward this becoming a
bigger license facility as if not a full-fledged casino for
other gaming activities.-
And to me that is a very different vision than what I thought
we were going to get with the fast ferry.-
-
>> Joe, isn't it true there was talk about this years ago when
there was the back and forth on whether we should have the
ferry and at that time the words were we are not going to see
gambling on the ferry.-
-
>> This was never designed -- there was some talk in many parts
of the state about having water based casinos.-
This is not that.-
I really come at this from a different model.-
If the Disney corporation said we want to put shows on there in
the middle of the day, on those trips, I would say put them on
there.-
Anything we can do to enhance this.-
And ridership.-
You used the right word.-
I feel this is critically important for our economic
development in this area in tourism.-
We are going to do the performing arts center.-
We are doing a number of things to enhance our museums, golf,
we are talking about a golf trail.-
We have to keep driving that and use every tool we can to get
go people in our area because I believe when they come here
they will like it, they will spend money and that's what this
is about.-
I'm so focused on that part, I have yet to have somebody tell
me an argument how this won't benefit that.-
The reality is it is critically important for this community
economically that that ship succeeds.-
We should not be fighting over how much degree, what degree.-
We should be looking at every avenue we can to make it go.-
Already in Charlotte the business people are having a surge in
the housing prices and gone up in the short time just from
anticipation.-
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>> I need to bring the subject, because I want to change this a
little bit.-
We are hearing about V.L.T.'s, these kinds of gaming machines,
funding education because the big bill in front of the governor
and legislature in terms of funding education.-
First of all, should there be more V.L.T.'s paying for
education, one?-
And is that a palatable way to get the money in in other words,
if it were for anything else, just the general fund, nobody
would go for it.-
-
>> I would say in the first instance if we rely entirely on
gaming as the way to expand the economy we will find ourselves
in a very troubling situation.-
Ultimately we need to make sure we are expanding the economy of
upstate New York in good paying jobs and invest in technology
and industry.-
But there's a lot of money leaving New York state.-
They have more people spending on gambling than anybody else.-
They go to Connecticut, Las Vegas, Atlantic city, the native
American casinos in Niagara Falls.-
It seems to me the State of New York, which faces a tremendous
financial burden, particularly the campaign for fiscal equity
lawsuit which you referenced is going to cost us billions of
dollars that we don't have right now.-
And it does seem to me to suggest that we shouldn't even look
at this when dollars are leaving the state seems
irresponsible.-
-
>> I'm not comfortable with the governor's V.L.T. proposal.-
That doesn't mean that it won't be part of the solution when we
get to creating the solution for where the money for education
is going to colonel from.-
But it is true, as Joe said, we have to have a multifaceted
approach in terms of doing economic development and expanding
our job base in New York state and we also need to look at
whether or not it is appropriate to continue to allow the
Indian tribes to receive all of the benefit of gaming in New
York state.-
-
>> So I have to ask this.-
How close is New York then to full legalization of gambling?-
That is basically what we are talking about.-
If we are taking it off the native American reservations we are
talking about full legalization, right?-
-
>> If I could turn back the clock, a number of us voted for the
bill that changed the constitution with all due respect of the
tribes that are seeing significant benefits, the citizens of
New York state are not seeing as much as they could have and we
need to look at a comprehensive policy and if we have four or
five full blown casinos, maybe limited to V.L.T.'s and other
things under the constitution as it is now, but I think we need
to rest it.-
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>> Are you comfortable with that?-
-
>> I am very concerned about the city of Rochester's ability to
maintain convention business seeing what we see to the east and
west of us with the casinos.-
I have expressed in the past it not my preference to see this
expansion of gaming but at the same time for us to compete we
may need to consider having a kasi know in the Rochester area.-
-
>> Nevada and New Jersey are the only two that you can have
cast since know any where I.-
-
>> That was the most important point.-
This is not about really saying we like fwaming -- gaming or
not.-
This is about us, our ability to compete and use that component
and share in the other many great things here.-
-
>> But you hear people who will say the number is 750,000 have
gambling addiction and I know you are all saying reluctantly we
are going for it but we are bringing something that won't help
them out.-
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>> But the gaming is already here in New York state.-
And as Joe said we have a larger number of alcoholics in New
York state and we still great a great deal of revenue from
alcohol-related taxes.-
The casino is an and you attractive thing for many -- it is an
unattractive thing for many reasons.-
But it is here.-
That door is already open.-
And the question is whether or not we are going to have
communities around us with Indian-run facilities that will
undermine Rochester's ability to be an entertainment and
tourism destination.-
-
>> I don't mean to digress, but this going all around us.-
We talked about the perfect storm.-
This is sort of the worst case scenario.-
Everyone around us is benefiting from using this component.-
We are not.-
Yet we still pay a share and we should have more money
designated from the state to go to problem gaming programs.-
You heard from ray Scott earlier.-
That is where much of their revenue comes from.-
We need to address that because there's a certain percentage of
people who will not use it as recreation, but will get
aDicked.-
But that has been going on since the beginning of time.-
So what we have is no benefit but only -- -
>> A casino is better than, in many ways, than people that
would walk up at a convenience store.-
Gambling is not a way to make money.-
-
>> I have to ask you, education doesn't make it more
palatable.-
If it was going for anything else even to the general fund
would people be less likely to do it?-
-
>> It toss make it more palatable.-
-
>> Out of gaming we put $1.5 billion out k through 12 education
comes from gaming.-
If we do not have that, that would be that much less
programming or more money on local property taxpayers which are
not good choices for any of us.-
-
>> I have to wrap it up and I wish I could talk about this more
because we didn't get to a lot of the topics.-
I may have to have you back.-
This can continue and it can because of the internet so email
us at NEEDTOKNOW@WXXI.org.-
You can call our response line any time.-
The number is 258-0250.-
Now let's open up the business section with the Democrat and
chronicle.-
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>> Joining us is Ellen Rosen the business editor for the
Democrat Dell.-
Let's talk first about the high tech business in Rochester and
about the new Infotonics lab in Canandaiga.-
It promises jobs.-
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>> This is something that was first proposed by governor Pataki
and senator schumer in 2001.-
One of the centers of excellence they are developing.-
It is Infotonics.-
There is one this Albany, Buffalo, I believe we may be the
first one up and running.-
It opens Monday.-
The governor and the senator will be here.-
They say it could create 5,000 jobs.-
The idea is to create things within the lab that is spinning
off into technology and businesses or other businesses would
buy.-
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>> And all here.-
These jobs would not leave?-
-
>> No, they would be here.-
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>> The article I thought it was an interesting side note in the
article said the downturn in the economy helped the center.-
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>> It did.-
This was a very expensive line of work.-
You need a lot of expensive equipment, clean rooms.-
So what happened is when we had the downyou turn in the biotech
sector they were able to po buy things at pennies on the dollar
for what they would have paid at full price and stretched the
dollars, got more equipment and got it up and running faster
than had they had to wait to buy the things.-
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>> And we are talking about local companies.-
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>> The major contributors are Xerox, Kodak and Corning and
state and federal money.-
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>> So this is definitely seen as something that will be a
cornerstone in Rochester for business growth?-
-
>> Yes, it is to get it up going as people come to recognize we
are doing great technology development and R&D and they can
work on some of the things, some of the things they are talking
about is sensors how much water is going up a grapevine so
farmers would know when is the right time to harvest a grape.-
-
>> Another industry that Rochester hopes to zpwrow biotech and
there was good news in terms of federal funding.-
-
>> One got a $2 million grant.-
One of 27 companies chosen T. is a grant that will allow them
to develop their antibody research.-
So it is good.-
That is a company that is growing.-
They have about 37 employees.-
This is the kind of thing that allows them to develop and
continue to develop products and hopefully add jobs.-
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>> This was a competition?-
-
>> Yes, highly competitive.-
-
>> And something that we are always in competition for
business?-
-
>> That's the tougher thing in boy tech.-
They have something that is going to probably come out.-
-
>> It is never a bad thing to get a good rating in a magazine
and I guess we got a nice rating.-
Rochester in terms of the entrepreneurialship.-
I think it was rating inner cities.-
-
>> It has to do with they look at different things.-
Percentage of people with certain kinds of degrees and work
that you are doing in the area.-
And so they basically decided we are very a, we are a very
entrepreneurial area.-
-
>> And moving again to another topic, the workforce in
Rochester, we -- there's a story that you had earlier, we have
unemployment in this area, we know we have some unemployment
problems, yet there are still skilled jobs that go unfilled.-
Can you talk about that?-
Yes, it very interesting.-
It a specific kind of manufacturing job, specific skills using
computers on the machines.-
And they are having trouble.-
They have about 300 jobs that they can't fill and they think
one issue is that people have seen the downturn in
manufacturing and lost thousands of jobs over the years so her
not going into this line of work, yet they need this kind of
work.-
So the companies are having to take on some of the on-the-job
training in some areas that have the training and they are
trying to get more people to come into the programs.-
-
>> Who -- where does it fall, on whose shoulders to get the
word out from the period of time where we know we have to get
people jobs to the point where we've got a place for you?-
-
>>Ing I think that is what they are trying to do.-
The folks that have been doing the training, they are not
seeing the people sign up for the programs, they are saying we
see an opportunity here.-
So that is where they brought that to the public's attention.-
-
>> I have to ask you is it true that Atkins diet is killing
Montana mills?-
-
>> Krispy kreme Thursday announced they are going to to look to
sell or close Montana mills.-
They are planning to sell nine stores.-
They didn't say where or when and they are blaming it on low
carb diets. People are not buying bread.-
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>> What is coming up Sunday?-
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>> We will introduce our readers to the economic advisors panel
which will help us decide what kinds of business coverage we
should have in the newspaper.-
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>> Sounds a lot like the voice of the voter initiative.-
Thank you Ellen.-
We value your comments on anything you have heard.-
Email us at NEEDTOKNOW@WXXI.org or call us at 258-0250.-
Next week we look at how the federal communication commission
crack down on decency has affected the broadcasters of the
Rochester region.-
We will see you next week.-