Coming up on "Need to Know",, do you think the government's new
interest in broadcasting indecency is just about Howard stern
and shock jocks?-
Broadcasters are all dealing with the tougher F.C.C. including
here in Rochester.-
We will look at this and have a report on the task of finding
work for people with disability during tough economic times.-
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>> The F.C.C. has to give us a benchmark as to what they expect
the stations to do.-
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[Captioning Made Possible by the U.S. Department of Education]-
(For "Need to Know")-
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>> Thanks for joining us.-
I'm Michael Caputo.-
It seemingly began after the Super Bowl halftime show that went
wry -- abry and the F.C.C. took a hard new line T. is now in
the hands of congress and ultimately perhaps the nation's
courts.-
It is indecency over the public airwaves.-
Proposals to increase fines for breaking the F.C.C. code for
indecency.-
It appears to be changing over the air broadcasting.-
But if you think it is limited to Janet Jackson-like and the
tricks or Howard stern think again.-
Songs that have been aired for 30 years are being sanitized.-
Think Steve Miller's "Jet Airliner."-
Companies that create dump button technology are making money
hand over fists.-
Even PBS grapples with the change.-
No longer is it sending down unsanitized versions of programs.-
The ramifications of the tougher F.C.C. regulations are hit
willing all broadcast oh.-
"Need to Know's" Julie Philipp reports from college radio to
commercial TV they must all cope.-
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>> Broadcasters across the country are trying to steer clear of
anything that might offend anyone.-
President of WXXI norm silverstein explains why.-
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>> I think we are erring on the side of caution.-
Shortly after the Janet Jackson incident the F.C.C. made it
clear they were going to a zero tolerance rule on indecent
programming.-
Congress is looking at raising the fines from $27,500 to as
much as $500,000 per incident with even the threat of this
coming up at license renewal.-
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>> These dramatically higher penalties proposed by the F.C.C.
has already been approved by the house of representatives.-
The senate could act at any time.-
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>> No one wants to be seen as being soft on what might be
deemed as object sken city.-
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>> The F.C.C. reports a huge increase in complaints from the
public but the numbers don't tell the whole story.-
First of all it is easier than ever for individuals and
advocacy groups to file a complaint.-
They just need to log on to their computers.-
And until last year the F.C.C. considered thousands of
complaints about the same program to be a single complaint.-
Now all complaints are counted and reported separately.-
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>> That can't be played.-
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>> Jared Lapin, general manager of university of Rochester
station WRUR worries legal costs associated with just one
F.C.C. complaint, even an unfounded one, could put the
student-run station out of business.-
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>> We have taken the most conservative tack possible because we
don't want the risk and one thing we are planning is starting
June 1 we will delay all programs by two weeks so we can check
they will for dent.-
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>> Local station wokr recently had to hire lawyers radioactive
someone complained about a show it aired even though the
general manager said it was supplied by the ABC network.-
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>> To our knowledge it was the only complaint in the United
States.-
So a lot of people saw the show and probably millions of people
saw the show but someone objected to it and that is what we
live with as broadcasters.-
I believe that the F.C.C. has to give us a benchmark as to what
they expect the stations to do.-
I mean, what is indecent?-
And I think that is what a lot of broadcasters are asking for.-
It is tough to say use your best judgment.-
-
>> Silverstein has the current atmosphere is not simply keep
being the Janet Jacksons and Howard sterns off the air.-
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>> We had a debate in the system about whether we could again
carry Schindler's list because it contains frontal nudity which
is one thing we are told we should not be doing.-
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>> I should note we tried contacting a number of other local
broaders.-
Tim Busch regional manager of wrokewroke wanted to wait until
congress decides what the new rules are.-
Arnold Klinsky general manager of WHEC didn't want to be
interviewed on camera.-
He said the station is trying to stay alert to the possible
indecency issues and Karen Carey the marketing manager for
clear channel stations in Rochester referred us to a clear
channel spokesperson in San Antonio.-
With us now to talk further about the F.C.C. crackdown are Curt
Smith columnist and commentator, Tom Proietti professor of
communications at Monroe community college, and the man known
as "Brother Wease", morning radio personality for WCMF-FM.-
You get the first question, Curt.-
Is this an overreaction by government, by broadcasters to
government?-
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>> No, it is not.-
It is a late reaction by the citizens.-
We owe Janet Jackson a debt of gratitude.-
500,000 Americans were appalled by what they saw just as
millions have been appalled the last two or three decades by
the scum and garbage which has passed as broadcasting.-
Indecent people are not the only people that decide what
decency is.-
It is a political issue and in the political terrain of the
silent majority which is too often silent is out and I think
for the purpose once broadcasting will be required of it
something that it demands of every other institution.-
It called accountability.-
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>> Wease a poll showed most were offended by sex, profanity,
violence.-
Where do you stand?-
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>> I couldn't disagree more with what he said.-
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>> There's a shock.-
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>> No, I mean I could have taken each sentence you said and
showed you what is absurd.-
He made the statement that the majority of -- he said 500,000
people somewhere were appalled at Janet Jackson's breasts.-
That statement is such a joke because it is easy for people to
be Monday morning quarterbacks whatever had day they call
that.-
I would like to meet the guy, I have not met the human that was
appalled by the action that Janet Jackson did because first of
all I was batching the Super Bowl with a bunch of people and it
happened so damn quick I don't know who saw a breast and if you
it see it, let me finish, Curt.-
I want you to tell me who it hurt and for God's sake how does a
breast hurt anybody?-
We are going so crazy with the right wing mentality.-
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>> You look at polling data.-
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>> I didn't cut you off.-
Let me say my statement.-
I let you say your whole damn deal.-
A breast is so benign and absurd for people to freak out.-
People that say my kids saw it.-
Last night I heard Michael savange say that the beheading of
Mr. Berg could be blamed at the feet of all Democrats.-
That is so much more heinous than some girl's breast.-
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>> Would you let your young children listen to Howard stern?-
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>> First of all, that is insulting to me because I'm
competition for him.-
Obviously in a very small way.-
But stern, he has benefited from this so much I can't tell
you.-
He is so much bigger than before this happened.-
They have praised him.-
The F.C.C. has done nothing to him.-
Clear channel has because they are in bed with George Bush.-
They had to sanitize their deal.-
You will notice that Howard stern works for infinity, where I
work and he is on all infinity stations.-
Everything is the same as it ever was.-
All of a sudden he is the biggest hero going.-
Rush Limbaugh, O'Reilly are sticking up for him.-
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>> I want to get to you in a second but I want to get Tom
Proietti in.-
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>> I feel left out.-
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>> When was the last time we saw such worry about decency
standards like this?-
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>> Mid 1970'S the George Karlen case which didn't involve him.-
It involved the seven dirty words.-
A disk jockey in the mid of the afternoon played it on an album
and it led to a Supreme Court rule tag gave us some guidelines
but Curt makes a point, they are never enforce and wease makes
a point that the marketplace determines and if you the to
listen to stern and wease that is your call.-
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>> Curt.-
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>> The F.C.C., I think I quote the language is indecency is
material that patently offensive to contemporary community
turnarounds.-
A community of Rochester may differ from Manhattan or Peoria,
Illinois.-
But broadcasting is not in a vacuum.-
It is not in a closet and it is part of the culture and it is
an important part of the culture on kids who are raised in that
culture.-
Too often people have said that we have a first amendment and
we have to abdicate any responsibility in terms of broadcasting
not simply on us but our kids and I think what this has done is
bring into the public arena the rules and laws and mechanism of
the F.C.C. have been ignored.-
This is where why congress is upset.-
Not because they -- it is sponsoreding to the popular pulse and
polling data says America is sick of what it seeing.-
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>> Where does he get this?-
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>> Any Gallup poll you look at.-
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>> Actually, a Gallup poll, about a month after the Janet
Jackson incident, it said that most Americans were offended by
sex and violence but it also said that they were not in effect
offended by what happened that day of the Super Bowl.-
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>> This not in a vacuum.-
It is the tip of the iceberg in terms of obscenity and
pornography and profanity and which would have been considered
indecent one to three decades ago.-
-
>> I want to ask about the end result of this.-
Do you think it will be self-censorship.-
The F.C.C. may not have to do another thing but self-censorship
will change the face of broadcast ing?-
>> It is worse than that because right now my program so
governed, I'm the not supposed to say masturbate.-
I may be reading a news story.-
Right now the situation in the Iraqi prison, that is one of the
words.-
I'm not posed to say it.-
You have people like Curt who want to govern what you hear and
see.-
I will tell you why this is absurd because now it is a new day
and age and we have cable TV.-
We also have satellite radio available to all the people.-
That is the competition where I work.-
So going to talk to people who want to hear people speak freely
they will go to satellite radio and cable TV has been a monster
for a long period of time.-
All of the shows on H.B.O., people love the sopranos of the
only difference between the sopranos and a show on network is
the sopranos can say dirty words.-
I would like to hire you with Curt how dirty words and naked
people affect these children.-
Hate speech from right wingers to me is a lot scarier than
naked -- if he believes in God, they gave us these bodies.-
What are you worried about?-
I want you to tell me how that breast will hurt anybody.-
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>> There are nuances and differences between radio where
someone makes a decision to limp as opposed to television,
network or increasingly cable television which because of the
genius of electronics is in every single living room in the
country and has an enormous effect particularly with single
paper families.-
But if you have no limits in terms of this, fine.-
Then by your, the logical logical definition of what you should
say we should have any sexist or racist language we want.-
Why do we use the n word for blacks.-
According to that definition we could.-
Why don't we have the most disgusting language to Jews and
blacks.-
We are part of a culture and we need standards and
accountability.-
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>> Tom, let's talk about community standards.-
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>> I work for time Warner.-
One thing I'm concerned about is we are down to about five
companies that control most of the media.-
This one of the few places they don't control.-
The level of corporate censorship that is going on is
terrifying to someone like me who believes in the free
marketplace.-
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>> Let me ask you another question.-
I will change it slightly and talk about cable TV since we
brought it up, and satellite broadcasting.-
Isn't that the next frontier?-
Will that be regulated? -
>> I don't think so.-
I feel a -- I have a feeling they can't be touched.-
But what we have been doing 20 years is fine.-
I raised two children in this.-
They turned out great kids.-
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>> Congressional representatives are talking about.-
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>> Kids who are listening to it are some of the best kids I
have known so the impact Curt is talking about I don't agree.-
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>> Congress is talking about regulating cable television.-
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>> If that happens then I'm probably moving to Canada -
>> Amen.-
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>> Because it is no longer the United States of America.-
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>> You won't have problem there.-
But cable makes the point if you are going to have the networks
and all of the networks, if you are looking at ABC, NBC, CBS
you are talking about six or seven hundred, if they have what I
call responsible and you call censored material what does that
do to cable?-
You have one or two choices.-
You say the networks have to operate at a disadvantage or you
are going to start asking some responsibility of cable as
well.-
Because my 4-year-old girl doesn't differentiate between H.B.O.
and CBS and the home shopping network.-
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>> You as a parent do.-
Do your job.-
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>> I need to ask the man an important question because I have
done it on my radio show and never gotten an answer.-
One thing, your 4-year-old daughter she is not going to watch
these bad things if she had a choice because it not
interesting.-
Just like my talk show and stern's talk show won't hurt them
because they are not listening to talk radio but I want to ask
you persistent breast that started this off.-
Could you please -- -
>> Do we have the shot?-
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>> I saw it at the beginning.-
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>> I want to know how to could hurt a kid.-
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>> That's your view.-
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>> My view is it doesn't.-
I want to know how to does.-
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>> Because people who disagree with you have voice and a right
to be heard and they have not been heard.-
Often off in the bowling league and PTA and other things and it
takes an event to be gallon van insisted.-
They have a right to be heard.-
This is why it is is totally fitting and becoming that congress
should decide because it theoretically the tribunal -- -
>> Do you think the F.C.C. should day down a standard.-
Kent Beckwith said we don't have anything to go on.-
I have seen that time and again.-
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>> Sure you do.-
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>> How would you -- where is the drawing line?-
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>> I think we through the F.C.C., which is people's tribunal
and the congress, in effect will hear from the American public
and they will decide.-
This is nothing new.-
We have had, "Brother Wease", you know as well, in television,
there used to be the indecency code.-
In movies there was the Catholic league of decency.-
A lot of the censor offices of networks have been abandoned
over the last two to three decades as anything goes.-
What I think you will see is not a return to the restrictions
and the revolting topics of the 1930's up through the 1960'S
but some sort of moderation which we have not had.-
On the other hand, over the last 25 years -- -
>> I want to ask you, Tom, if there is decency standard laid
down -- -
>> Yes.-
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>> Not just community standards, is there one that really lays
down point by point a standard.-
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>> The Karlen case says it has to do with patently offensive
things, if you depict sexual or ecr -- excretory functions in a
patently offensive way.-
A couple of people who squeak about this are getting all of the
attention and the people who are consuming material are not
getting their due, their just due.-
They have to come forward.-
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>> You have.-
You had it three decades.-
Are you going to agree with me because obviously standards are
vevboten and no matter how hateful something is we say that.-
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>> Michael savage does that every night.-
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>> You are saying that is fine.-
You can attack any group in the country.-
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>> I need to ask a question.-
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>> It's an open marketplace.-
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>> I need to ask a question.-
A broadcaster who does it refuse I day like yourself, how has
your day-to-day changed.-
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>> Unbelievably.-
I'm so censored at this point that my show is getting chopped
up with delays because I have a kid in the other room.-
I have three guys with buttons.-
If one kid misses a guy has that job to hit it and they are so
scared that they are hitting buttons on stuff that is real
innocuous.-
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>> They hit a button on parachute because they were worried
about how they pronounced it.-
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>> Do you feel any strictures?-
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>> No, first of all I think the clientele of PBS and npr would
be different than yours.-
But my problem is not radio although all of us should be
responsible and held accountable to the mores and values of the
listener.-
But television is different in terms of the concentration,
particularly in terms of the networks and the involvement of
cable and I do think some middle ground will be necessary
because of the overwhelming influence of network and cable TV -
>> What did you think about norm silverstein's comment that he
has to worry about running a film like Schindler's list because
of front nudity.-
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>> I think if it is part of the artistic content that is
different.-
People engage in shock because it is their institute for
talent.-
They are not talented enough to perform and succeed on their
own without resorting to this.-
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>> I have to answer that pause I think America is about freedom
of speech and about free sbries surprise.-
And wease has made a great living doing what he has done.-
I wouldn't let me kids listen to it until they are of such an
age.-
I listen to him and find him interesting and find him
talented.-
I worry about the family because there's too much of the family
on the air but America is about freedom of expression and Curt
talked about hateful speech.-
It is all over.-
Michael savage, I can't believe we listen to him.-
It is my job.-
I think we are at the beginning of a third Reich and that
scares me.-
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>> I have few seconds left.-
One word answers.-
Where is it ending up?-
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>> F.C.C. and congress.-
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>> Politics.-
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>> Politics.-
And you asked for one word.-
I think in the future there will be gay marriages, we will talk
dir dirty on the radio and people will choose for themselves.-
They are fighting a losing battle because the future will
arrive whether it is 100 or 200 years from now all of this
stuff that people yearn for will be here and we have to be
parents and make sure kids grow up and parent them.-
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>> This conversation is the kind of conversation people are
having around the table.-
I appreciate your being here.-
This can continue on the internet.-
Email us at NEEDTOKNOW@WXXI.org.-
You can call our response line any time the number is
258-0250.-
Normally we would go into the business section with the
Democrat and chronicle.-
That will return a week from today.-
This week "Need to Know" parts in a effort to learn more about
the people who live with disability.-
It called "Dialogue on disability."-
We know finding work hasn't been easy can during this down
economy.-
How do those with disabilities and theation that assist them
find employment in a time of higher unemployment.-
Needs' John Kaiser has this report -
>> John Kester is one of roughly 37,000 unemployed in
Rochester.-
But his situation is more unique.-
In 2002 he contracted a condition which causes some brain
damage.-
More specifically, loss of memory.-
-
>> It has caused a number of problems.-
I'm unable to remember basic job functions, like remembering
meetings, remembering deadlines, and that caused me to lose my
job.-
-
>> John comes to the employment connection, a division of the
Rochester rehabilitation center, once a week for counseling and
employment services.-
Deborah Burke is the director of the program.-
-
>> Each year we work with about 750 to 800 people looking for
work.-
The populations that we work with are a combination of welfare
recipients who are looking to get off of welfare and go to
work, and we also work with about 250 people who are disabled
to help them find work as well.-
So we represent job seekers who are disabled or otherwise
disadvantaged.-
-
>> So in economic times when they are tough now in upstate New
York how much more difficult is finding work for job seekers
with disabilities?-
-
>> Certainly the soft economy that we are experiencing right
now does make finding a job for anybody more difficult.-
And that is really compounded for people with disabilities
because the national statistic is that about 2/3 of the people
with disabilities are either unemployed or underemployed,
meaning they have skills and abilities that are not being used
at their current job.-
-
>> My prior position was as a library prarne and there really a
lot of those jobs that are not available.-
There are few in this area and I have roots here so I'm not
willing to travel so I'm concerned.-
-
>> Dan works in the deli department at Wegmans.-
In 1990 he suffered traumatic brain injuries when being struck
by a car.-
It left him with some paralysis, short-term memory loss and
altered speech.-
With assistance from the employment connection and a lot of
determination, Dan has re-entered the workforce.-
-
>> The placement person worked very hard to get Dan to it
point.-
We had to make some accommodations for the job he is presently
doing but he has picked them up and pretty much just, I mean he
took off and started flying right away and he loves it.-
As he says, he loves the job.-
He comes here four or five days a week and, like I said, except
for vacation hasn't missed a day.-
So it has been an inspiration.-
-
>> We feel very successful at what we do.-
Each year we place about 45% of the people who are referred to
us.-
We have been in the business long enough to know when the
economy gets soft we have to shift gears a little bit and we
have to lean more heavily on the job development side, meaning
we have to get out in the community and talk with employers
more.-
We have to be more aggressive in our representation of people
with disabilities to the local business community.-
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>> And your comments to anything we talk about on "Need to
Know."-
Email us at NEEDTOKNOW@WXXI.org or call us at 258-0250.-
Next week we will look at the controversial rule big a Monroe
county family court judge that deals with a prohibition to
conceive.-
We will see you next week.-